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Proxibid just sold a Pf63 Stella...

sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited March 27, 2024 9:49AM in U.S. Coin Forum

...and a lot of other U.S. certified gold. I just stumbled across this auction now and it's still happening. The "Investment rarities" coins actually look quite nice, perhaps undergraded by today's standards. This is a pretty significant collection/accumulation, especially for Proxibid.
https://proxibid.com/Leonard-Auction-Inc/Single-Owner-Coin-Auction-Sale-323/event-catalog/258093

https://proxibid.com/lotinformation/83093703/1879-4-stella-pr63-pcgs

Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.

Comments

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,997 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Proxibid didn't sell anything.

  • Options
    davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,860 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Leonard Auctions is selling auctioneer while proxibid is hosting site.

    I am surprised how much gold that lifetime collector in Madison Wisconsin is selling. I always wonder if auctioneers are ever concerned about buyers running out of disposable money by the end of their auction.

  • Options
    BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Proxibid is just an aggregator/platform.

    Leonard Auction, Inc. - https://www.leonardauction.com/

    They sell through several of the aggregator/platforms

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
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    ProofmorganProofmorgan Posts: 715 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow! Some likely undergraded material there. Did you buy anything?

    Collector of Original Early Gold with beginnings in Proof Morgan collecting.
  • Options
    sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    Proxibid didn't sell anything.

    Proxibid is obviously the venue. If you didn't understand that, I pardon your ignorance, but suspect that you did.

    Yes, Proxibid obviously wasn't the owner. They bill the auction as a one owner collection. Most here understand that this is the case with auctions and that Proxibid is a venue, like Ebay. Yes, Leonard Auctions regularly holds live auctions that they also run on Proxibid and usually has some coins included, but never anything like this before.

    I think that you missed the point about the Stella and lots of other fresh gold coming to market. I'd call this offering pretty significant and can see why if some here knew about it they wouldn't want to call attention to it. But I figured that there would be many more that might appreciate seeing this auction.

    I am surprised how much gold that lifetime collector in Madison Wisconsin is selling. I always wonder if auctioneers are ever concerned about buyers running out of disposable money by the end of their auction.

    That can be a factor in circumstances like this. It depends on who is there and how deep one's pockets are.

    And, no I wasn't a buyer. For one thing, I stumbled upon it after it had started. For another, I wouldn't spend this kind of serious money without seeing the coins in person and a couple of days of preparation. And the effort/return ratio is iffy because competition can be great when fresh material like this surfaces in substantial quantities. Good chance that Stack's and/or Heritage was represented there.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • Options
    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,997 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2024 4:03PM

    @sellitstore said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    Proxibid didn't sell anything.

    Proxibid is obviously the venue. If you didn't understand that, I pardon your ignorance, but suspect that you did.

    Yes, Proxibid obviously wasn't the owner. They bill the auction as a one owner collection. Most here understand that this is the case with auctions and that Proxibid is a venue, like Ebay. Yes, Leonard Auctions regularly holds live auctions that they also run on Proxibid and usually has some coins included, but never anything like this before.

    I think that you missed the point about the Stella and lots of other fresh gold coming to market. I'd call this offering pretty significant and can see why if some here knew about it they wouldn't want to call attention to it. But I figured that there would be many more that might appreciate seeing this auction.

    I am surprised how much gold that lifetime collector in Madison Wisconsin is selling. I always wonder if auctioneers are ever concerned about buyers running out of disposable money by the end of their auction.

    That can be a factor in circumstances like this. It depends on who is there and how deep one's pockets are.

    And, no I wasn't a buyer. For one thing, I stumbled upon it after it had started. For another, I wouldn't spend this kind of serious money without seeing the coins in person and a couple of days of preparation. And the effort/return ratio is iffy because competition can be great when fresh material like this surfaces in substantial quantities. Good chance that Stack's and/or Heritage was represented there.

    Proxibid is NOT the venue. Proxibid simply supplies internet bidding services to the actual venue which is Leonard Auctions. Proxibid has no idea what is even being sold.

    Legally, eBay is a "marketplace". I don't believe it is accurate to call eBay or Proxibid the "venue" although eBay is more a venue than proxibid, in my opinion, as eBay actually plays a more direct role in the sale.

  • Options
    BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2024 4:33PM

    @sellitstore said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    Proxibid didn't sell anything.

    Proxibid is obviously the venue. If you didn't understand that, I pardon your ignorance, but suspect that you did.

    Not really. If you follow the link to the auction house, they use five different platforms, at the same time. You can choose to bid through any of them:

    LiveAuctioneers
    Proxibid
    Invaluable
    AuctionZip
    BidSquare

    And mail, email, or fax

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
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    Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 770 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting I had never heard of the "Federal Certification Service (FCS) holder" Anyone have any thoughts on it?

  • Options
    Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 770 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2024 5:40PM

    Damn - missed that auction. The $20 Libs went for spot in MS64 Rattlers. Raw there were dozens going for $1800.

    1908 $20 Gold No Motto MS-64 PCGS in a PCGS rattler went for $2000

  • Options
    TimNHTimNH Posts: 128 ✭✭✭

    What is this sorcery, these auction 'aggregators'? Are you telling me there are more auctions out there besides the big-4 where we might snap up bargains?

  • Options
    horseyridehorseyride Posts: 124 ✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2024 4:46AM

    I'e got nothing to do with them, but I like https://www.numisbids.com/ to find appropriate auctions

  • Options
    sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Clackamas1 said:
    Damn - missed that auction. The $20 Libs went for spot in MS64 Rattlers. Raw there were dozens going for $1800.

    1908 $20 Gold No Motto MS-64 PCGS in a PCGS rattler went for $2000

    I'm glad that at least a few people picked up on the significance of my post rather than just try to nitpick and distract with debates of whether Proxibid is a venue or something else. @jmlanzaf it gets old quickly and doesn't contribute to the thread.

    And @BStrauss3, yes, Leonard sells on different platforms, if you prefer that term, but, again, irrelevant and misses the point. If you don't care about the auctions or coins sold, it's better not to contribute than contribute pointless adversarial comments containing irrelevant information.

    @TimNH said:
    What is this sorcery, these auction 'aggregators'? Are you telling me there are more auctions out there besides the big-4 where we might snap up bargains?

    Indeed.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • Options
    Project NumismaticsProject Numismatics Posts: 1,338 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @sellitstore said:

    @Clackamas1 said:
    Damn - missed that auction. The $20 Libs went for spot in MS64 Rattlers. Raw there were dozens going for $1800.

    1908 $20 Gold No Motto MS-64 PCGS in a PCGS rattler went for $2000

    I'm glad that at least a few people picked up on the significance of my post rather than just try to nitpick and distract with debates of whether Proxibid is a venue or something else. @jmlanzaf it gets old quickly and doesn't contribute to the thread.

    And @BStrauss3, yes, Leonard sells on different platforms, if you prefer that term, but, again, irrelevant and misses the point. If you don't care about the auctions or coins sold, it's better not to contribute than contribute pointless adversarial comments containing irrelevant information.

    @TimNH said:
    What is this sorcery, these auction 'aggregators'? Are you telling me there are more auctions out there besides the big-4 where we might snap up bargains?

    Indeed.

    The fine print appears to explain that there is a 25% buyers premium on top of hammer. I don’t think any rattlers sold for $1,800 out the door. Cheap, but not that cheap.

  • Options
    CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,605 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm not a gold buyer, but I appreciate the point the OP was making!

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • Options
    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,997 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @sellitstore said:

    @Clackamas1 said:
    Damn - missed that auction. The $20 Libs went for spot in MS64 Rattlers. Raw there were dozens going for $1800.

    1908 $20 Gold No Motto MS-64 PCGS in a PCGS rattler went for $2000

    I'm glad that at least a few people picked up on the significance of my post rather than just try to nitpick and distract with debates of whether Proxibid is a venue or something else. @jmlanzaf it gets old quickly and doesn't contribute to the thread.

    And @BStrauss3, yes, Leonard sells on different platforms, if you prefer that term, but, again, irrelevant and misses the point. If you don't care about the auctions or coins sold, it's better not to contribute than contribute pointless adversarial comments containing irrelevant information.

    @TimNH said:
    What is this sorcery, these auction 'aggregators'? Are you telling me there are more auctions out there besides the big-4 where we might snap up bargains?

    Indeed.

    Seriously, the first 3 comments so say the same thing but you feel the need to criticize me? THAT gets old quickly.

    The first THREE comments, including mine, all said the same thing:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    Proxibid didn't sell anything.

    @davewesen said:
    Leonard Auctions is selling auctioneer while proxibid is hosting site.

    I am surprised how much gold that lifetime collector in Madison Wisconsin is selling. I always wonder if auctioneers are ever concerned about buyers running out of disposable money by the end of their auction.

    @BStrauss3 said:
    Proxibid is just an aggregator/platform.

    Leonard Auction, Inc. - https://www.leonardauction.com/

    They sell through several of the aggregator/platforms

  • Options
    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,997 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @sellitstore said:

    @Clackamas1 said:
    Damn - missed that auction. The $20 Libs went for spot in MS64 Rattlers. Raw there were dozens going for $1800.

    1908 $20 Gold No Motto MS-64 PCGS in a PCGS rattler went for $2000

    I'm glad that at least a few people picked up on the significance of my post rather than just try to nitpick and distract with debates of whether Proxibid is a venue or something else. @jmlanzaf it gets old quickly and doesn't contribute to the thread.

    And @BStrauss3, yes, Leonard sells on different platforms, if you prefer that term, but, again, irrelevant and misses the point. If you don't care about the auctions or coins sold, it's better not to contribute than contribute pointless adversarial comments containing irrelevant information.

    @TimNH said:
    What is this sorcery, these auction 'aggregators'? Are you telling me there are more auctions out there besides the big-4 where we might snap up bargains?

    Indeed.

    There's nothing adversarial about me or @BStrauss3 correcting the language. The adversarial comments were your response to the correction. It DOES MATTER because this confusion over who the actual seller is pops up a lot with HiBid and Proxibid on this site.

  • Options
    MonsterCoinzMonsterCoinz Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Clackamas1 said:
    Damn - missed that auction. The $20 Libs went for spot in MS64 Rattlers. Raw there were dozens going for $1800.

    1908 $20 Gold No Motto MS-64 PCGS in a PCGS rattler went for $2000

    These, what I call 'alt auction houses' (proxibid, auctionzip) are like the wild west. Auction fees on this one were 25%. They may also pay a 3rd party shipping service which is expensive. You also may or may not get tracking. It's always nerve wracking waiting a couple weeks to get your coin.

    I once bought a coin for $50. The 3rd party shipping service they used charged a flat $20 (not mentioned in any ToS) plus $11 for a padded mailer, $3 for "packing material" (a piece of paper) and another $7 for "handling". With auction fees, I paid about double my hammer price.

    www.MonsterCoinz.com | My Toned Showcase

    Check out my iPhone app SlabReader!
  • Options
    lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 7,831 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Clackamas1 said:
    Damn - missed that auction. The $20 Libs went for spot in MS64 Rattlers. Raw there were dozens going for $1800.

    1908 $20 Gold No Motto MS-64 PCGS in a PCGS rattler went for $2000

    does this include the buyers' fees?

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • Options
    sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2024 7:59AM

    @MonsterCoinz said:

    @Clackamas1 said:
    Damn - missed that auction. The $20 Libs went for spot in MS64 Rattlers. Raw there were dozens going for $1800.

    1908 $20 Gold No Motto MS-64 PCGS in a PCGS rattler went for $2000

    These, what I call 'alt auction houses' (proxibid, auctionzip) are like the wild west. Auction fees on this one were 25%. They may also pay a 3rd party shipping service which is expensive. You also may or may not get tracking. It's always nerve wracking waiting a couple weeks to get your coin.

    I once bought a coin for $50. The 3rd party shipping service they used charged a flat $20 (not mentioned in any ToS) plus $11 for a padded mailer, $3 for "packing material" (a piece of paper) and another $7 for "handling". With auction fees, I paid about double my hammer price.

    Yup, and the wild west was dangerous but some made their fortunes there. I've STOLEN some items there but usually in paper money, not coins, which are more competitive. Most of my buying now is done in these venues while most of my buying was done at major numismatic auctioneers in past decades. Ebay, LiveAuctioneers, Invaluable, Proxibid and Auctionzip are where I buy now followed by several world sites, like Sixbid and Numis24. I'm comfortable with how I interact with the auctioneers, have never had a problem with delivery, authenticity or anything else.

    Buyers premiums and shipping charges are about the same as with major coin auctioneers. Some ship in house and others use outside shippers, which can be more expensive. I always look for this information, which is always present under "Shipping" and take shipping cost into consideration when deciding to bid. These wouldn't be my areas of concern.

    Lack of knowledge among the auctioneers is, perhaps, the biggest problem. In general they don't want problems but don't know the material well enough to avoid them.

    With all of that said, please continue to stay away from these venues if you question your abilities, as it is a bit of a minefield. But my mine detector is built in and automatic at this point. Lack of competition always makes for better opportunity. Knowledge is King.

    I'm pretty sure that some of the buyers at yesterday's auction will make good money on these purchases. If Stack's or Heritage were represented, I'll bet that they scooped up some good buys that more than paid for their efforts.

    I look through lots of auctions every morning. I thought that some members here would appreciate this tip while I knew that others, who may be participating in the sale, would prefer for me (or anyone else) to remain silent. I don't chase items like this anymore but can still spot a good possible opportunity and I saw one here and decided to pass it on the the CU discussion board, since I didn't intend to participate.

    @jmlanzaf was the first to make an inappropriate comment (typical). He was corrected by the next post, who tried to get the thread back on track by commenting on the collection, and then was joined in the irrelevant comments by @BStrauss3 but @Proofmorgan then noted, some undergraded coins in this auction, getting us back on topic.

    So, @jmlanzaf you got one guy who wants to take this thread the way that you want to go:What exactly is Proxibid? Why not start another thread if this is what interests you? We're talking about this somewhat unusual auction, but you're not cooperating. You want to debate the status of Proxibid but I'd ask you to do this elsewhere. You are free to contribute whatever you like but I'd like to focus on the auction and the material in this thread.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • Options
    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,997 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @sellitstore said:

    @MonsterCoinz said:

    @Clackamas1 said:
    Damn - missed that auction. The $20 Libs went for spot in MS64 Rattlers. Raw there were dozens going for $1800.

    1908 $20 Gold No Motto MS-64 PCGS in a PCGS rattler went for $2000

    These, what I call 'alt auction houses' (proxibid, auctionzip) are like the wild west. Auction fees on this one were 25%. They may also pay a 3rd party shipping service which is expensive. You also may or may not get tracking. It's always nerve wracking waiting a couple weeks to get your coin.

    I once bought a coin for $50. The 3rd party shipping service they used charged a flat $20 (not mentioned in any ToS) plus $11 for a padded mailer, $3 for "packing material" (a piece of paper) and another $7 for "handling". With auction fees, I paid about double my hammer price.

    Yup, and the wild west was dangerous but some made their fortunes there. I've STOLEN some items there but usually in paper money, not coins, which are more competitive. Most of my buying now is done in these venues while most of my buying was done at major numismatic auctioneers in past decades. Ebay, LiveAuctioneers, Invaluable, Proxibid and Auctionzip are where I buy now followed by several world sites, like Sixbid and Numis24. I'm comfortable with how I interact with the auctioneers, have never had a problem with delivery, authenticity or anything else.

    Buyers premiums and shipping charges are about the same as with major coin auctioneers. Some ship in house and others use outside shippers, which can be more expensive. I always look for this information, which is always present under "Shipping" and take shipping cost into consideration when deciding to bid. These wouldn't be my areas of concern.

    Lack of knowledge among the auctioneers is, perhaps, the biggest problem. In general they don't want problems but don't know the material well enough to avoid them.

    With all of that said, please continue to stay away from these venues if you question your abilities, as it is a bit of a minefield. But my mine detector is built in and automatic at this point. Lack of competition always makes for better opportunity. Knowledge is King.

    I'm pretty sure that some of the buyers at yesterday's auction will make good money on these purchases. If Stack's or Heritage were represented, I'll bet that they scooped up some good buys that more than paid for their efforts.

    I look through lots of auctions every morning. I thought that some members here would appreciate this tip while I knew that others, who may be participating in the sale, would prefer for me (or anyone else) to remain silent. I don't chase items like this anymore but can still spot a good possible opportunity and I saw one here and decided to pass it on the the CU discussion board, since I didn't intend to participate.

    @jmlanzaf was the first to make an inappropriate comment (typical). He was corrected by the next post, who tried to get the thread back on track by commenting on the collection, and then was joined in the irrelevant comments by @BStrauss3 but @Proofmorgan then noted, some undergraded coins in this auction, getting us back on topic.

    So, @jmlanzaf you got one guy who wants to take this thread the way that you want to go:What exactly is Proxibid? Why not start another thread if this is what interests you? We're talking about this somewhat unusual auction, but you're not cooperating. You want to debate the status of Proxibid but I'd ask you to do this elsewhere. You are free to contribute whatever you like but I'd like to focus on the auction and the material in this thread.

    No, I'm fine correcting the mistake here. If you weren't so hypersensitive to the small correction, it would have been over in the first post.

  • Options
    BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Plenty of idiots here, enough to go around.

    The important points are that when you place bids through a platform, you are subject to the terms & conditions of BOTH the platform and the ultimate seller.

    Proxibid might say there is a buyer's premium of at least 20%, shipping services may be available.

    LiveAuctioneers says 15% and is silent as to shipping

    The actual auction says the buyer's premium is 25% and shipping is via the local UPS store at retail rates plus 10% with a minimum cost of $25.

    (or whatever they actually do say)

    What do you pay? Yep, 25% plus shipping via the local UPS store.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • Options
    sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nope, these were not the points that I was making and if you want to discuss buyers premiums and auction platforms, please do so in a new thread. That's all I'm asking.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • Options
    Pnies20Pnies20 Posts: 2,068 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This forum is not > @sellitstore said:

    Nope, these were not the points that I was making and if you want to discuss buyers premiums and auction platforms, please do so in a new thread. That's all I'm asking.

    Just mute. They will harass you until you get banned.

    Another popular thing around here is suing. Just sue somebody.

    BHNC #248 … 108 and counting.

  • Options
    BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I do love how people think they can control the ebb and flow of threads they start.

    Sorry, folks, once you launch a baby thread on its life journey into the choppy waters of our board, you lose control. If you want to set the initial direction, start with more words - asking a better question or making a more nuanced observation typically gets better responses.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • Options
    sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This coming from the guy who derailed the thread. You just can't make this stuff up.

    Go back and read your comment. It was in response to the two above comments but not mine. Trying to put the blame on me for not asking my question better is laughable because I wasn't even asking a question. I was notifying other board members to an auction of interest. There was no confusion about my initial post. And how did you choose to contribute to the discussion?

    You and I managed to shut down discussion in this thread and that was more your choice than mine. Maybe you DO have to power to control the ebb and flow of threads and you don't realize how negative your impact is.

    I respect the moderators and the rules but I contribute meaningful threads here and obey the rules. All I ask for is respectful discussion but some are combative and always looking to disagree in any way. If the mods want to keep them and get rid of me, so be it. But the CU discussion board won't benefit from decisions like this.

    I'll continue to post interesting threads like the one on the chopmarked $20 that I just posted. If @BStrauss3 or @jmlanzaf care to comment, they are welcome, but please contribute rather than attack the poster for choice of words or alleged misuse of "platform" vs "venue".

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • Options
    TypekatTypekat Posts: 161 ✭✭✭

    IMHO, a friendly discussion of Lithuanian Bus Token Die Varieties would be more fun than this thread

    30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!

  • Options
    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,997 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Typekat said:
    IMHO, a friendly discussion of Lithuanian Bus Token Die Varieties would be more fun than this thread

    There is some amazing Lithuanian exonumia. I think it belongs on the world forum, however. B)

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