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GreatCollections scraped off my CMQ sticker

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  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,145 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @P0CKETCHANGE said:

    I love both buying and selling with GC and will continue to do business with them, but thought this was worth sharing in case anyone else is considering consigning CMQ-approved coins.



    (left is my pre-submission photo; right is GC auction photo)

    I am surprised CMQ put their sticker on the left and covered the lower part of the date. Did CAC buy the rights to the lower right of the slab label?

    I agree it was a bad move by GC to remove the label. I could not find in GreatCollections Terms of Service that they remove labels they do not like. I also do not see where they accept certified coins by CACG for their auctions.

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,977 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very uncool move to scrape that sticker off. Especially when customer service is so important. Can't undo that one. Peace Roy

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 7,169 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Life will go on and the sun will rise tomorrow. Profundity for today.

    Seated Half Society member #38
    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • TrickleChargeTrickleCharge Posts: 174 ✭✭✭

    @DeplorableDan said:
    If it was even possible, the CMQ sticker now has even less value to me than it did before. I’m a frequent consignor at GC, but SB not so much. Knowing that the sticker will not be marketed on GC, and probably HA too, indicates that it will never garner any real value in the marketplace.

    IMO, Hall and Roberts made a mistake aligning with SB for this venture. Not that there’s anything wrong with any of the aforementioned parties, but the potential for conflict of interest has been a black cloud over the Griff since it was announced. If they had started independently, I think it would have had a better shot of gaining traction.

    I agree about the conflict of interest you mention here. One could argue a similar conflict exists with the eagle eye seal as well, where the stickering service is engaged in selling stickered coins directly to the public. Despite the potential conflict of interest, eagle eye stickering is still accepted at most if not all major auction houses.

  • ianrussellianrussell Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    More than one poster has asked (or speculated as to) whether Heritage would remove CMQ stickers from coins that are consigned to us. I wanted to be sure that my reply would be accurate, so checked and was told the following:

    “Heritage’s policy at this time is to not remove such stickers from coins consigned to us unless the current owner requests us to do so. These stickers can be seen in our online full-slab images. CAC and Eagle Eye Photo Seals are the only stickering services our cataloguers may reference in their titling and/or descriptions.”

    I've noticed you leave other stickers on holders in images too. I always wondered if that was by accident or policy.

    • Ian
    Ian Russell
    Owner/Founder GreatCollections
    GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 2,197 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DisneyFan said:

    @NJCoin said:

    @DisneyFan said:

    @NJCoin said:

    Given that you chose CMQ over CAC, or nothing, why isn't SB the natural first choice for you? After all, they are the ones actively promoting CMQ, and, if you expect to get a premium, seems to me like that would be the place to go.

    GC has a different commission schedule.

    So what? What would rather do, get 30% more for your coin, or pay 5% less in commission? If CMQ has any real value, it's surely more than a few points in commission, no?

    Actually, with a CMQ at CG one could get both.

    If you say so. My theory was that people who care about those stickers would migrate to where they are being actively offered and promoted, so you wouldn't get the premium, or as much of it, elsewhere. Let's face it -- it's not yet a CAC sticker.

  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 2,197 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lermish said:

    @NJCoin said:

    @DisneyFan said:

    @NJCoin said:

    Given that you chose CMQ over CAC, or nothing, why isn't SB the natural first choice for you? After all, they are the ones actively promoting CMQ, and, if you expect to get a premium, seems to me like that would be the place to go.

    GC has a different commission schedule.

    So what? What would rather do, get 30% more for your coin, or pay 5% less in commission? If CMQ has any real value, it's surely more than a few points in commission, no?

    I don't intend to open up a can of worms...but I think it's extremely doubtful that there are very many US coins that would gain a consignor an extra 30% at SB vs GC, regardless of sticker or no. Depending on the type, value, and amount of the total consignment, I would wager the average consignor realizes more net proceeds at GC.

    Agreed. I was only using the 30% as an example of what a sticker could mean. I very seriously doubt a CMQ sticker would be worth anywhere near that much.

    My point was only that if you expect a premium, it would likely be maximized by the auction house offering and promoting the sticker. And that if there was a premium, and if it did not dwarf any small difference in commissions between auction houses, that it honestly would not be worth talking about.

    Bottom line -- no reason to source a sticker at SB, and then run to GC to sell the coin to try to capture the premium created by the sticker.

  • privatecoinprivatecoin Posts: 3,394 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ianrussell said:
    I guess this is the wrong thread to announce the launch of the GC sticker?

    Many are waiting enthusiastically!

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

  • MetroDMetroD Posts: 2,198 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @davewesen said:

    I am surprised CMQ put their sticker on the left and covered the lower part of the date. Did CAC buy the rights to the lower right of the slab label?

    I agree it was a bad move by GC to remove the label. I could not find in GreatCollections Terms of Service that they remove labels they do not like. I also do not see where they accept certified coins by CACG for their auctions.

    Not in the T&C, which just currently lists PCGS, NGC and ANACS. See section #2 @ https://www.greatcollections.com/terms

    CACG is, however, listed as one of the "certified coin" options on the GC "consignment form".

    Source: https://www.greatcollections.com/forms/coins.pdf

    Further, if I read the "consignment form" correctly, GC will even submit raw coins to CACG on behalf of a consignor, and then auction them (i.e., the "grade and auction program").

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,255 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @privatecoin said:

    @ianrussell said:
    I guess this is the wrong thread to announce the launch of the GC sticker?

    Many are waiting enthusiastically!

    Only if they had a world class grading team. I doubt anyone cares if an auction house just slaps a sticker on a coin.

  • pcgscacgoldpcgscacgold Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Disappointing to see they did this. Didn't expect this from GC.

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,007 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My takeaway from all of this:
    If you ARE going to remove the sticker please also take a moment to remove the sticky residue.

    Thank you.

    peacockcoins

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,255 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2024 3:04PM

    .

  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think the placement of the sticker may have something to do with it
    Covers part of the Date!

    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 2,197 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2024 3:39PM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @privatecoin said:

    @ianrussell said:
    I guess this is the wrong thread to announce the launch of the GC sticker?

    Many are waiting enthusiastically!

    Only if they had a world class grading team. I doubt anyone cares if an auction house just slaps a sticker on a coin.

    It was a joke!!! He'd never actually slap his own sticker on a slab while simultaneously justifying scraping someone else's sticker off. 🤣

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,255 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NJCoin said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @privatecoin said:

    @ianrussell said:
    I guess this is the wrong thread to announce the launch of the GC sticker?

    Many are waiting enthusiastically!

    Only if they had a world class grading team. I doubt anyone cares if an auction house just slaps a sticker on a coin.

    It was a joke!!! He'd never actually slap his own sticker on a slab while simultaneously justifying scraping someone else's sticker off. 🤣

    I wasn't responding to Ian, I was responding to the person responding to him.

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The kicker is after illegally removing your sticker they didn't even have the common curtesy to take a bit of goo gone to the remaining cmq residue. Almost as bad as a coin with the nasty. RGDS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • MetroDMetroD Posts: 2,198 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Project Numismatics said:
    I remain skeptical that a CMQ sticker adds value in the current market (where’s the data?) but respect that a consignor may want to leave it on because they value and paid for the CMQ opinion.

    I do think folks need to put away the pitchforks - this is a ~$30 issue to correct and Ian already offered to do so. The angry self-righteous crowd is out in full force!

    Additionally, Ian committed to changing the policy regarding removing 'labels/stickers' that GC does not currently "recognize".

    So, this should not happen to anyone else going forward.

  • knovak1976knovak1976 Posts: 402 ✭✭✭✭

    @ianrussell said:

    @PerryHall said:
    Why not let the bidders decide if the CMQ sticker has any value?

    Where do we draw the line? Have you seen the # of stickers that are being privately added to coins in the U.S.?

    • Ian

    This is EXACTLY how I feel about ASE’s having 120 different inserts for the same date/year/mint mark and a dealer claiming it’s a very rare coin because there’s only 1 or 2 graded……. when there’s 100’s more but with a different insert. These inserts/stickers can VERY misleading in my opinion….unless they are a CAC or other well known sticker.

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,230 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2024 9:03PM

    Now I spend nada on sticker material bc CACG only ones I have a few of.

    GC is my auction house of choice and they do a great job.

    Coins & Currency
  • privatecoinprivatecoin Posts: 3,394 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @NJCoin said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @privatecoin said:

    @ianrussell said:
    I guess this is the wrong thread to announce the launch of the GC sticker?

    Many are waiting enthusiastically!

    Only if they had a world class grading team. I doubt anyone cares if an auction house just slaps a sticker on a coin.

    It was a joke!!! He'd never actually slap his own sticker on a slab while simultaneously justifying scraping someone else's sticker off. 🤣

    I wasn't responding to Ian, I was responding to the person responding to him.

    Sarcasm is such a beautiful thing. 😆

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    I don't get it. Can someone explain to me how a CMQ sticker hurts the value of a coin consigned to GC? If the buyer doesn't like it, he can always peel it off. Right?

    If I saw an OGH with a CMQ sticker, I might wonder to myself if the CMQ sticker means that the coin did not make it at CAC. That is how the CMQ sticker could potentially hurt the value of the coin. CAC >> CMQ

  • JonBrand83JonBrand83 Posts: 480 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thats pretty annoying.

    Jbknifeandcoin.com
    IG: jb_rarities

  • jackpine20jackpine20 Posts: 142 ✭✭✭✭

    To remove stickers of any kind, I have experienced great results using an overnight application of peanut butter. Then a combination of my fingernail and a microfiber cloth and glass cleaner (or eyeglass cleaner).

    Matt Snebold

  • giantsfan20giantsfan20 Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭✭

    GC should provide some additional form of compensation for their mistake. Maybe waive seller fee or extra percent of sold amount. They should not be left off easily with just repaying the sticker fee.

    Just like the coindealer who held a coin for a year and got it back did he receive any extra form of compensation?@alanski

  • ProofCollectionProofCollection Posts: 6,171 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 27, 2024 10:49PM

    @messydesk said:
    I would think the qualifications for a sticker remaining on a slab are that the sticker has a proven track record of adding value of some sort to the buyer, and not just the entity affixing the sticker before selling the coin. As far as approval stickers goes, this narrows it down to CAC, QA, and Eagle Eye. Thankfully, my attribution sticker is also now recognized.

    How can a sticker gain a proven track record if it is removed by the auction houses?

    Further, I believe CAC would argue that the sticker doesn't add value as the coins worthy of CAC stickers were already worth more and they are just identifying them.

    @NJCoin said:

    @pointfivezero said:
    I purchased this unstickered Blay Lincoln from GC and submitted it to CAC and CMQ. I guess I should choose another selling platform if and when it comes time to sell:

    That's not very logical. Some auction houses are better for some coins than others, some auction events have different pools of buyers, etc. Further, that's not really how these stickers work as they only represent an opinion which can be important to anyone who values that opinion and in the end can only really add value.

    Yup. You went to SB for a sticker. Might as well go to them to sell. Among other reasons, if they want to support the market, they will bid strong for it.

    Why would Stacks Bowers bid on coins? Are they a dealer too? AFAIK they are just looking to make the commissions, not acquire inventory. I could be wrong about that though.

    @PTVETTER said:
    I think the placement of the sticker may have something to do with it
    Covers part of the Date!

    I think it's just the angle the photo was taken at.

    @RYK said:

    @PerryHall said:
    I don't get it. Can someone explain to me how a CMQ sticker hurts the value of a coin consigned to GC? If the buyer doesn't like it, he can always peel it off. Right?

    If I saw an OGH with a CMQ sticker, I might wonder to myself if the CMQ sticker means that the coin did not make it at CAC. That is how the CMQ sticker could potentially hurt the value of the coin. CAC >> CMQ

    Maybe, it's always dangerous to assume. CMQ stickers many coins that CAC does not. There are other factors at play as well such as ease and cost of submission. It was tough to get a CAC membership for quite a while. CMQ takes great pictures for all coins submitted (CAC does not). CMQ offers Coins In Motion. CMQ is on the West coast, CAC on the East. Etc.

    I can understand the decision for GC to not support CMQ with a search filter or putting it in the coin description or title, but many stickers give me a little extra confidence when buying coins I can't see in person which would possibly lead to more buyers competing and higher prices. But bottom line: I would not want to submit my coins to an auction house that is going to work against my coins realizing the highest possible value.

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,230 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2024 4:39AM

    I wonder how much they pay per coin for the non CAC stickers once All costs analyzed. Seems like a waste of money. One could get a nice slabbed MS69 silver 1oz bullion coin for around $45 or $50.
    Or put the money in something else - food. Have u been watching NY Prepper (U Tube) lately?

    Coins & Currency
  • yspsalesyspsales Posts: 2,319 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I love everything about CAC.

    Remarkable founders, managing the tough choices of overwhelming growth without selling out their brand.

    The more I learn about CMQ the better I like them.

    Competition is good.

    GC is another great resource for the industry and should welcome this feedback on a minor, but important issue.

    BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out

  • NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 2,197 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ProofCollection said:

    @messydesk said:
    I would think the qualifications for a sticker remaining on a slab are that the sticker has a proven track record of adding value of some sort to the buyer, and not just the entity affixing the sticker before selling the coin. As far as approval stickers goes, this narrows it down to CAC, QA, and Eagle Eye. Thankfully, my attribution sticker is also now recognized.

    How can a sticker gain a proven track record if it is removed by the auction houses?

    Further, I believe CAC would argue that the sticker doesn't add value as the coins worthy of CAC stickers were already worth more and they are just identifying them.

    @NJCoin said:

    @pointfivezero said:
    I purchased this unstickered Blay Lincoln from GC and submitted it to CAC and CMQ. I guess I should choose another selling platform if and when it comes time to sell:

    That's not very logical. Some auction houses are better for some coins than others, some auction events have different pools of buyers, etc. Further, that's not really how these stickers work as they only represent an opinion which can be important to anyone who values that opinion and in the end can only really add value.

    Yup. You went to SB for a sticker. Might as well go to them to sell. Among other reasons, if they want to support the market, they will bid strong for it.

    Why would Stacks Bowers bid on coins? Are they a dealer too? AFAIK they are just looking to make the commissions, not acquire inventory. I could be wrong about that though.

    @PTVETTER said:
    I think the placement of the sticker may have something to do with it
    Covers part of the Date!

    I think it's just the angle the photo was taken at.

    @RYK said:

    @PerryHall said:
    I don't get it. Can someone explain to me how a CMQ sticker hurts the value of a coin consigned to GC? If the buyer doesn't like it, he can always peel it off. Right?

    If I saw an OGH with a CMQ sticker, I might wonder to myself if the CMQ sticker means that the coin did not make it at CAC. That is how the CMQ sticker could potentially hurt the value of the coin. CAC >> CMQ

    Maybe, it's always dangerous to assume. CMQ stickers many coins that CAC does not. There are other factors at play as well such as ease and cost of submission. It was tough to get a CAC membership for quite a while. CMQ takes great pictures for all coins submitted (CAC does not). CMQ offers Coins In Motion. CMQ is on the West coast, CAC on the East. Etc.

    I can understand the decision for GC to not support CMQ with a search filter or putting it in the coin description or title, but many stickers give me a little extra confidence when buying coins I can't see in person which would possibly lead to more buyers competing and higher prices. But bottom line: I would not want to submit my coins to an auction house that is going to work against my coins realizing the highest possible value.

    Yes, SB is a very well known, very long time coin dealer, as well as auction house. HA also is a dealer that carries inventory. One of the things that creates value for the stickers, both for CAC and for CMQ, is the house's willingness to stand behind the opinion with a bid.

  • ProofCollectionProofCollection Posts: 6,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NJCoin said:

    @ProofCollection said:

    @messydesk said:
    I would think the qualifications for a sticker remaining on a slab are that the sticker has a proven track record of adding value of some sort to the buyer, and not just the entity affixing the sticker before selling the coin. As far as approval stickers goes, this narrows it down to CAC, QA, and Eagle Eye. Thankfully, my attribution sticker is also now recognized.

    How can a sticker gain a proven track record if it is removed by the auction houses?

    Further, I believe CAC would argue that the sticker doesn't add value as the coins worthy of CAC stickers were already worth more and they are just identifying them.

    @NJCoin said:

    @pointfivezero said:
    I purchased this unstickered Blay Lincoln from GC and submitted it to CAC and CMQ. I guess I should choose another selling platform if and when it comes time to sell:

    That's not very logical. Some auction houses are better for some coins than others, some auction events have different pools of buyers, etc. Further, that's not really how these stickers work as they only represent an opinion which can be important to anyone who values that opinion and in the end can only really add value.

    Yup. You went to SB for a sticker. Might as well go to them to sell. Among other reasons, if they want to support the market, they will bid strong for it.

    Why would Stacks Bowers bid on coins? Are they a dealer too? AFAIK they are just looking to make the commissions, not acquire inventory. I could be wrong about that though.

    @PTVETTER said:
    I think the placement of the sticker may have something to do with it
    Covers part of the Date!

    I think it's just the angle the photo was taken at.

    @RYK said:

    @PerryHall said:
    I don't get it. Can someone explain to me how a CMQ sticker hurts the value of a coin consigned to GC? If the buyer doesn't like it, he can always peel it off. Right?

    If I saw an OGH with a CMQ sticker, I might wonder to myself if the CMQ sticker means that the coin did not make it at CAC. That is how the CMQ sticker could potentially hurt the value of the coin. CAC >> CMQ

    Maybe, it's always dangerous to assume. CMQ stickers many coins that CAC does not. There are other factors at play as well such as ease and cost of submission. It was tough to get a CAC membership for quite a while. CMQ takes great pictures for all coins submitted (CAC does not). CMQ offers Coins In Motion. CMQ is on the West coast, CAC on the East. Etc.

    I can understand the decision for GC to not support CMQ with a search filter or putting it in the coin description or title, but many stickers give me a little extra confidence when buying coins I can't see in person which would possibly lead to more buyers competing and higher prices. But bottom line: I would not want to submit my coins to an auction house that is going to work against my coins realizing the highest possible value.

    Yes, SB is a very well known, very long time coin dealer, as well as auction house. HA also is a dealer that carries inventory. One of the things that creates value for the stickers, both for CAC and for CMQ, is the house's willingness to stand behind the opinion with a bid.

    OK, but dealers generally pay wholesale so I wouldn't put too much expectation into "strong bids" from a dealer regardless of stickers and I would expect SB to not participate in their own auctions as a matter of integrity.

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2024 7:26AM

    @ProofCollection said:

    @messydesk said:
    I would think the qualifications for a sticker remaining on a slab are that the sticker has a proven track record of adding value of some sort to the buyer, and not just the entity affixing the sticker before selling the coin. As far as approval stickers goes, this narrows it down to CAC, QA, and Eagle Eye. Thankfully, my attribution sticker is also now recognized.

    How can a sticker gain a proven track record if it is removed by the auction houses?

    There are other auctions and there are other ways of buying and selling coins. It took a while for CAC to become well-established, but eventually even our hosts saw the need for them in their registry. I imagine CMQ will get there. One disadvantage CMQ has is starting up among a sea of meaningless seller-affixed copycat stickers. CAC didn't have this situation, although they arguably created it due to their success.

    Further, I believe CAC would argue that the sticker doesn't add value as the coins worthy of CAC stickers were already worth more and they are just identifying them.

    The same argument could be applied to raw coins not needing to be certified. Technically they aren't worth more because they're certified since the coin itself did not change one iota. The certification is just adding value for the buyer such that they'll pay what they're worth.

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