@PerryHall said:
If the buyer already paid for this coin and you cancel this transaction, you can expect to get negative feedback.
I can't believe the number of people in favor of canceling.
The risk in this particular case of loosing the coin is not worth the reward (the net profit on the sale). Sure, there is some risk with every ebay sale, but the risk varies with each transaction and one must decide when the reward outweighs the risk.
Sure. But the OP didn't say or do anything that suggests they are anything but sincere. They didn't ask for shipment to an alternate address. They don't have a shipping address in Moldavia. They simply asked if there was a stock photo involved and mentioned that they wanted to replace one on a lanyard/bezel that they had prior. None of that is remotely suspicious.
The OP is under the impression that the buyer wants to remove it from the slab. The buyer never said that and it may not be true. Note that it was a "rope" bezel and a "rope" chain. They might well be intending to wear the coin in the slab. I've seen dealers do this at shows.
But regardless of what the buyer wants to do, cancelation is strictly arbitrary and not based on any "red flags" in my book. YMMV
I will remind everyone of this thread the next time and eBay seller cancels the transaction of a member of this forum. In those cases, everyone piles on the seller and accuses them of getting a better offer or some other nefarious act. Now, the shoe is suddenly on the other foot and everyone is siding with the seller's capricious cancelation.
@PerryHall said:
If the buyer already paid for this coin and you cancel this transaction, you can expect to get negative feedback.
I can't believe the number of people in favor of canceling.
The risk in this particular case of getting a return is not worth the reward (the net profit on the sale). Sure, there is some risk with every ebay sale, but the risk varies with each transaction and one must decide when the reward outweighs the risk.
Too many buyers on ebay to sell to a buyer asking question about the quality of a PCGS graded coin. Good chance of a return. Returns cost me money.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
@IkesT said:
My understanding is that the eBay seller can have negative feedback removed after a refund is given, so that is not a real concern.
@jmlanzaf - At times, it appears that you intentionally take an incorrect position in order to start and/or prolong an argument.
If I were the seller in this case, I’d take the excellent suggestion that was made earlier and try to call the buyer to make sure he knew what he was buying, etc. But even if I couldn’t reach him, I think the previous post by @jmlanzaf made excellent points, that I’d seriously consider.
I think that he’s the ultimate devil’s advocate. And even when I disagree with him (and he drives me slightly crazy) I appreciate it that he makes me think.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@IkesT said: @PerryHall My understanding is that the eBay seller can have negative feedback removed after a refund is given.
@jmlanzaf - At times, it appears that you intentionally take an incorrect position in order to start and/or prolong an argument.
It is an incorrect position that one should honor the transaction? You may not agree with the position, but there's nothing correct or incorrect about it.
I just shipped an $8000 comic book to Canada. I really did not prefer to ship outside the US. But he bought it, paid the shipping and I did it. Why? Because I think it was the right thing to do, not because I wanted to start an argument.
@IkesT said:
My understanding is that the eBay seller can have negative feedback removed after a refund is given, so that is not a real concern.
@jmlanzaf - At times, it appears that you intentionally take an incorrect position in order to start and/or prolong an argument.
If I were the seller in this case, I’d take the excellent suggestion that was made earlier and try to call the buyer to make sure he knew what he was buying, etc. But even if I couldn’t reach him, I think the previous post by @jmlanzaf made excellent points, that I’d seriously consider.
I think that he’s the ultimate devil’s advocate. And even when I disagree with him (and he drives me slightly crazy) I appreciate it that he makes me think.
Idk. That might be a compliment. 😀
Seems to me that the lesson here is that if you want to rip someone off, you just buy the coin and don't ask questions. If the buyer here had done that, the coin would have shipped without a second thought.
A couple of weeks ago, I had some guy ask me a bunch of odd questions: How do you clean a slab? Should they be dusted regularly? Etc. I answered them as best i could. He bought it. I shipped it. The guy contacted me when it arrived and thanked me profusely for selling him his very first slab. He was so excited to be starting a new thing.
Communication on the internet can be awkward and difficult. Dealing with strangers has its risks. But then only sell directly.
The value of a site like eBay is that it intentionally puts protections in place to make it safer to transact. But if you still don't feel safe, stay away from ebay. If you choose to use eBay, then you should (in my opinion) honor the terms and conditions of the site and your sale.
People may think I'm playing Devil's Advocate, but I'm really genuinely surprised that my position isn't the majority position.
@IkesT said: @PerryHall My understanding is that the eBay seller can have negative feedback removed after a refund is given.
@jmlanzaf - At times, it appears that you intentionally take an incorrect position in order to start and/or prolong an argument.
It is an incorrect position that one should honor the transaction? You may not agree with the position, but there's nothing correct or incorrect about it.
You are making a straw man argument, as it is not just about honoring a generic transaction. The issue at hand is that there is a special circumstance in this instance that presents an unusual risk to the seller.
I just shipped an $8000 comic book to Canada. I really did not prefer to ship outside the US. But he bought it, paid the shipping and I did it. Why? Because I think it was the right thing to do, not because I wanted to start an argument.
Since you are "Mr. eBay", you are no doubt aware the choice of whom to do business with is an important seller privilege. Again, no one is arguing that transactions should be canceled willy-nilly, only in special cases where it is prudent for the seller to protect themselves. As per the rules of eBay, it is up to the seller to make that determination.
In any case, thank you for proving my point - here we are, prolonging the argument.
@IkesT said:
My understanding is that the eBay seller can have negative feedback removed after a refund is given, so that is not a real concern.
@jmlanzaf - At times, it appears that you intentionally take an incorrect position in order to start and/or prolong an argument.
If I were the seller in this case, I’d take the excellent suggestion that was made earlier and try to call the buyer to make sure he knew what he was buying, etc.
That was a good suggestion, and might influence one's decision one way or the other. If I had a bad feeling from the conversation, for example, I'd be even more inclined to cancel the transaction.
@IkesT said: @PerryHall My understanding is that the eBay seller can have negative feedback removed after a refund is given.
@jmlanzaf - At times, it appears that you intentionally take an incorrect position in order to start and/or prolong an argument.
It is an incorrect position that one should honor the transaction? You may not agree with the position, but there's nothing correct or incorrect about it.
You are making a straw man argument, as it is not just about honoring a generic transaction. The issue at hand is that there is a special circumstance in this instance that presents an unusual risk to the seller.
I just shipped an $8000 comic book to Canada. I really did not prefer to ship outside the US. But he bought it, paid the shipping and I did it. Why? Because I think it was the right thing to do, not because I wanted to start an argument.
Since you are "Mr. eBay", you are no doubt aware the choice of whom to do business with is an important seller privilege. Again, no one is arguing that transactions should be canceled willy-nilly, only in special cases where it is prudent for the seller to protect themselves. As per the rules of eBay, it is up to the seller to make that determination.
In any case, thank you for proving my point - here we are, prolonging the argument.
But where should the line be drawn regarding “special cases”. As has been pointed out previously, some of what the OP saw as “red flags”, wasn’t.
If you don’t want the argument prolonged, don’t argue. 😀
I happen to think it’s an interesting “debate”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@IkesT said: @PerryHall My understanding is that the eBay seller can have negative feedback removed after a refund is given.
@jmlanzaf - At times, it appears that you intentionally take an incorrect position in order to start and/or prolong an argument.
It is an incorrect position that one should honor the transaction? You may not agree with the position, but there's nothing correct or incorrect about it.
You are making a straw man argument, as it is not just about honoring a generic transaction. The issue at hand is that there is a special circumstance in this instance that presents an unusual risk to the seller.
I just shipped an $8000 comic book to Canada. I really did not prefer to ship outside the US. But he bought it, paid the shipping and I did it. Why? Because I think it was the right thing to do, not because I wanted to start an argument.
Since you are "Mr. eBay", you are no doubt aware the choice of whom to do business with is an important seller privilege. Again, no one is arguing that transactions should be canceled willy-nilly, only in special cases where it is prudent for the seller to protect themselves. As per the rules of eBay, it is up to the seller to make that determination.
In any case, thank you for proving my point - here we are, prolonging the argument.
There is no special circumstance. There's an ASSUMED special circumstance.
See the first sentence of the ebay cancellation policy
@IkesT said: @PerryHall My understanding is that the eBay seller can have negative feedback removed after a refund is given.
@jmlanzaf - At times, it appears that you intentionally take an incorrect position in order to start and/or prolong an argument.
It is an incorrect position that one should honor the transaction? You may not agree with the position, but there's nothing correct or incorrect about it.
You are making a straw man argument, as it is not just about honoring a generic transaction. The issue at hand is that there is a special circumstance in this instance that presents an unusual risk to the seller.
I just shipped an $8000 comic book to Canada. I really did not prefer to ship outside the US. But he bought it, paid the shipping and I did it. Why? Because I think it was the right thing to do, not because I wanted to start an argument.
Since you are "Mr. eBay", you are no doubt aware the choice of whom to do business with is an important seller privilege. Again, no one is arguing that transactions should be canceled willy-nilly, only in special cases where it is prudent for the seller to protect themselves. As per the rules of eBay, it is up to the seller to make that determination.
In any case, thank you for proving my point - here we are, prolonging the argument.
The argument only arose because you tagged me. So, THANK YOU for prolonging the discussion.
@IkesT said: @PerryHall My understanding is that the eBay seller can have negative feedback removed after a refund is given.
@jmlanzaf - At times, it appears that you intentionally take an incorrect position in order to start and/or prolong an argument.
It is an incorrect position that one should honor the transaction? You may not agree with the position, but there's nothing correct or incorrect about it.
You are making a straw man argument, as it is not just about honoring a generic transaction. The issue at hand is that there is a special circumstance in this instance that presents an unusual risk to the seller.
I just shipped an $8000 comic book to Canada. I really did not prefer to ship outside the US. But he bought it, paid the shipping and I did it. Why? Because I think it was the right thing to do, not because I wanted to start an argument.
Since you are "Mr. eBay", you are no doubt aware the choice of whom to do business with is an important seller privilege. Again, no one is arguing that transactions should be canceled willy-nilly, only in special cases where it is prudent for the seller to protect themselves. As per the rules of eBay, it is up to the seller to make that determination.
In any case, thank you for proving my point - here we are, prolonging the argument.
There is no special circumstance. There's an ASSUMED special circumstance.
See the first sentence of the ebay cancellation policy
See the second sentence of the eBay cancellation policy:
@IkesT said: @PerryHall My understanding is that the eBay seller can have negative feedback removed after a refund is given.
@jmlanzaf - At times, it appears that you intentionally take an incorrect position in order to start and/or prolong an argument.
It is an incorrect position that one should honor the transaction? You may not agree with the position, but there's nothing correct or incorrect about it.
You are making a straw man argument, as it is not just about honoring a generic transaction. The issue at hand is that there is a special circumstance in this instance that presents an unusual risk to the seller.
I just shipped an $8000 comic book to Canada. I really did not prefer to ship outside the US. But he bought it, paid the shipping and I did it. Why? Because I think it was the right thing to do, not because I wanted to start an argument.
Since you are "Mr. eBay", you are no doubt aware the choice of whom to do business with is an important seller privilege. Again, no one is arguing that transactions should be canceled willy-nilly, only in special cases where it is prudent for the seller to protect themselves. As per the rules of eBay, it is up to the seller to make that determination.
In any case, thank you for proving my point - here we are, prolonging the argument.
There is no special circumstance. There's an ASSUMED special circumstance.
See the first sentence of the ebay cancellation policy
See the second sentence of the eBay cancellation policy:
Keep reading. Seller whim is not one of the reasons.
@IkesT said: @PerryHall My understanding is that the eBay seller can have negative feedback removed after a refund is given.
@jmlanzaf - At times, it appears that you intentionally take an incorrect position in order to start and/or prolong an argument.
It is an incorrect position that one should honor the transaction? You may not agree with the position, but there's nothing correct or incorrect about it.
You are making a straw man argument, as it is not just about honoring a generic transaction. The issue at hand is that there is a special circumstance in this instance that presents an unusual risk to the seller.
I just shipped an $8000 comic book to Canada. I really did not prefer to ship outside the US. But he bought it, paid the shipping and I did it. Why? Because I think it was the right thing to do, not because I wanted to start an argument.
Since you are "Mr. eBay", you are no doubt aware the choice of whom to do business with is an important seller privilege. Again, no one is arguing that transactions should be canceled willy-nilly, only in special cases where it is prudent for the seller to protect themselves. As per the rules of eBay, it is up to the seller to make that determination.
In any case, thank you for proving my point - here we are, prolonging the argument.
There is no special circumstance. There's an ASSUMED special circumstance.
See the first sentence of the ebay cancellation policy
See the second sentence of the eBay cancellation policy:
Keep reading. Seller whim is not one of the reasons.
You might even be obligated to sell if you are concerned about the address.
Are you wrong to feel "weirded out"? No, I suppose not.
Are you right to cancel the sale? Also no, as long as they've paid with good funds, because "weirded out" isn't one of the reasons eBay gives for a valid cancelation.
My take on this is that based upon having read the messages, the buyer is either elderly and/or not a native English speaker, but the longevity of the account etc. suggests to me that they likely aren't a scammer (unless you're worried about a hijacked account, which you could try to investigate with eBay prior to shipping).
Does this guarantee you won't have an issue? No. But that's the dice you roll when you do eBay.
I say go through with the sale, because you really have no valid reason not to at this point.
Edit to add-If it makes you feel better to do so, you could inform them that the coin is not returnable once removed from the original holder (something that should already be in your TOS imo), but the reality is that if someone wants to return something badly enough they can.
Comments
Sure. But the OP didn't say or do anything that suggests they are anything but sincere. They didn't ask for shipment to an alternate address. They don't have a shipping address in Moldavia. They simply asked if there was a stock photo involved and mentioned that they wanted to replace one on a lanyard/bezel that they had prior. None of that is remotely suspicious.
The OP is under the impression that the buyer wants to remove it from the slab. The buyer never said that and it may not be true. Note that it was a "rope" bezel and a "rope" chain. They might well be intending to wear the coin in the slab. I've seen dealers do this at shows.
But regardless of what the buyer wants to do, cancelation is strictly arbitrary and not based on any "red flags" in my book. YMMV
I will remind everyone of this thread the next time and eBay seller cancels the transaction of a member of this forum. In those cases, everyone piles on the seller and accuses them of getting a better offer or some other nefarious act. Now, the shoe is suddenly on the other foot and everyone is siding with the seller's capricious cancelation.
The risk in this particular case of getting a return is not worth the reward (the net profit on the sale). Sure, there is some risk with every ebay sale, but the risk varies with each transaction and one must decide when the reward outweighs the risk.
Too many buyers on ebay to sell to a buyer asking question about the quality of a PCGS graded coin. Good chance of a return. Returns cost me money.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
@PerryHall My understanding is that the eBay seller can have negative feedback removed after a refund is given.
@jmlanzaf - At times, it appears that you intentionally take an incorrect position in order to start and/or prolong an argument.
If I were the seller in this case, I’d take the excellent suggestion that was made earlier and try to call the buyer to make sure he knew what he was buying, etc. But even if I couldn’t reach him, I think the previous post by @jmlanzaf made excellent points, that I’d seriously consider.
I think that he’s the ultimate devil’s advocate. And even when I disagree with him (and he drives me slightly crazy) I appreciate it that he makes me think.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It is an incorrect position that one should honor the transaction? You may not agree with the position, but there's nothing correct or incorrect about it.
I just shipped an $8000 comic book to Canada. I really did not prefer to ship outside the US. But he bought it, paid the shipping and I did it. Why? Because I think it was the right thing to do, not because I wanted to start an argument.
Idk. That might be a compliment. 😀
Seems to me that the lesson here is that if you want to rip someone off, you just buy the coin and don't ask questions. If the buyer here had done that, the coin would have shipped without a second thought.
A couple of weeks ago, I had some guy ask me a bunch of odd questions: How do you clean a slab? Should they be dusted regularly? Etc. I answered them as best i could. He bought it. I shipped it. The guy contacted me when it arrived and thanked me profusely for selling him his very first slab. He was so excited to be starting a new thing.
Communication on the internet can be awkward and difficult. Dealing with strangers has its risks. But then only sell directly.
The value of a site like eBay is that it intentionally puts protections in place to make it safer to transact. But if you still don't feel safe, stay away from ebay. If you choose to use eBay, then you should (in my opinion) honor the terms and conditions of the site and your sale.
People may think I'm playing Devil's Advocate, but I'm really genuinely surprised that my position isn't the majority position.
You are making a straw man argument, as it is not just about honoring a generic transaction. The issue at hand is that there is a special circumstance in this instance that presents an unusual risk to the seller.
Since you are "Mr. eBay", you are no doubt aware the choice of whom to do business with is an important seller privilege. Again, no one is arguing that transactions should be canceled willy-nilly, only in special cases where it is prudent for the seller to protect themselves. As per the rules of eBay, it is up to the seller to make that determination.
In any case, thank you for proving my point - here we are, prolonging the argument.
That was a good suggestion, and might influence one's decision one way or the other. If I had a bad feeling from the conversation, for example, I'd be even more inclined to cancel the transaction.
But where should the line be drawn regarding “special cases”. As has been pointed out previously, some of what the OP saw as “red flags”, wasn’t.
If you don’t want the argument prolonged, don’t argue. 😀
I happen to think it’s an interesting “debate”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
There is no special circumstance. There's an ASSUMED special circumstance.
See the first sentence of the ebay cancellation policy
The argument only arose because you tagged me. So, THANK YOU for prolonging the discussion.
See the second sentence of the eBay cancellation policy:
For the record, I didn't ask anyone not to argue, I just made an observation.
For the record, I think you enjoy it. And I don’t blame you for that.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Keep reading. Seller whim is not one of the reasons.
You might even be obligated to sell if you are concerned about the address.
Are you wrong to feel "weirded out"? No, I suppose not.
Are you right to cancel the sale? Also no, as long as they've paid with good funds, because "weirded out" isn't one of the reasons eBay gives for a valid cancelation.
My take on this is that based upon having read the messages, the buyer is either elderly and/or not a native English speaker, but the longevity of the account etc. suggests to me that they likely aren't a scammer (unless you're worried about a hijacked account, which you could try to investigate with eBay prior to shipping).
Does this guarantee you won't have an issue? No. But that's the dice you roll when you do eBay.
I say go through with the sale, because you really have no valid reason not to at this point.
Edit to add-If it makes you feel better to do so, you could inform them that the coin is not returnable once removed from the original holder (something that should already be in your TOS imo), but the reality is that if someone wants to return something badly enough they can.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012