Home U.S. Coin Forum

1863 J-352 $10 Pattern "God Our Trust"

PedzolaPedzola Posts: 1,009 ✭✭✭✭✭

I don't want my 1000th post to be a throw-away, so I thought I'd share a significant newp!

I saw this pattern $10 in Heritage inventory a couple of months ago. Despite knowing next to zip about patterns, I was immediately excited about it and pulled the trigger.

I have been looking for a $10 lib for my type set for what feels like forever. This pattern doesn't take the slot, but knowing how tough it is to find any NICE no-motto lib, I was primed to look at it differently.

I think this is just an incredible piece of numismatic history. Here are some of the things I love about it:

1) Graded 64 - an incredible state of preservation for any eagle of the era. This one is particularly nice with immaculate surfaces. CAC approval also doesn't hurt.

2) It's a proof! Proof gold is out of reach for most collectors, including myself. it's neat to think this one could have been struck using the same obverse die as a regular 1863 $10 proof.

3) Transitional motto - fascinating historical evidence of the political environment during the civil war, and experimentation leading to the familiar motto.

4) Tiny mintage - my rudimentary research finds about 20 struck, making it high R6 rarity. It seems these were likely made for collectors and virtually all were carefully saved.

5) Pedigree - another neat piece of numismatic history to know who has appreciated this coin before.

6) Off-metal pattern - being bronzed copper in and of itself makes this a heck of a conversation piece.


If this coin were struck in gold it would be worth an incredible amount of $$. As-is, the ~$5k I paid felt like an absolute steal for such a significant piece. I am thrilled to have it.

Any pattern experts out there? Happy to share this fascinating coin for my thousandth post!

Comments

  • FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,844 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Excellent post, and wonderful pattern!

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

  • OwnerofawheatiehordeOwnerofawheatiehorde Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That thing looks amazing! :o

    Congrats!!

    Type collector, mainly into Seated. Young Numismatist. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON

  • jfriedm56jfriedm56 Posts: 833 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wonderful looking pattern. Great choice.

  • TennesseeDaveTennesseeDave Posts: 4,740 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice, I'm wondering what held it back to a 64?

    Trade $'s
  • Comparing the obverse to the 1863 proof, they would appear to be from different dies.

    I have always been a fan of the 'God Our Trust' motto patterns. Very nice piece and great eye appeal.

  • mark_dakmark_dak Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Pedzola said:

    Any pattern experts out there? Happy to share this fascinating coin for my thousandth post!

    If drooling over them counts, I'm a long-time expert!

    That's a beautiful piece.

    Mark

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,585 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Really wonderful coin and fascinating to observe. I can fully appreciate your buying decision and desire to own such a compelling coin. Bet it's a joy to have in one's hand.

    Great coin and congratulations!

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • KliaoKliao Posts: 5,450 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow awesome pattern. Pleasing looking piece in copper.

    Young Numismatist/collector
    75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
    instagram.com/klnumismatics

  • fastfreddiefastfreddie Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What's not to like! I wonder why "IN" was left out of the motto? Maybe they were still experimenting with different mottos.

    It is not that life is short, but that you are dead for so very long.
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,005 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @fastfreddie said:
    What's not to like! I wonder why "IN" was left out of the motto? Maybe they were still experimenting with different mottos.

    There’s no “WE” either.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,005 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Pedzola said:
    I don't want my 1000th post to be a throw-away, so I thought I'd share a significant newp!

    I saw this pattern $10 in Heritage inventory a couple of months ago. Despite knowing next to zip about patterns, I was immediately excited about it and pulled the trigger.

    I have been looking for a $10 lib for my type set for what feels like forever. This pattern doesn't take the slot, but knowing how tough it is to find any NICE no-motto lib, I was primed to look at it differently.

    I think this is just an incredible piece of numismatic history. Here are some of the things I love about it:

    1) Graded 64 - an incredible state of preservation for any eagle of the era. This one is particularly nice with immaculate surfaces. CAC approval also doesn't hurt.

    2) It's a proof! Proof gold is out of reach for most collectors, including myself. it's neat to think this one could have been struck using the same obverse die as a regular 1863 $10 proof.

    3) Transitional motto - fascinating historical evidence of the political environment during the civil war, and experimentation leading to the familiar motto.

    4) Tiny mintage - my rudimentary research finds about 20 struck, making it high R6 rarity. It seems these were likely made for collectors and virtually all were carefully saved.

    5) Pedigree - another neat piece of numismatic history to know who has appreciated this coin before.

    6) Off-metal pattern - being bronzed copper in and of itself makes this a heck of a conversation piece.


    If this coin were struck in gold it would be worth an incredible amount of $$. As-is, the ~$5k I paid felt like an absolute steal for such a significant piece. I am thrilled to have it.

    Any pattern experts out there? Happy to share this fascinating coin for my thousandth post!

    Congratulations on acquiring such a cool coin.
    Coincidentally, here’s a perfect companion piece for it and it’s even the same (numerical) grade.😉

    https://coins.ha.com/itm/patterns/1863-10-liberty-ten-dollar-judd-349-pollock-421-unique-pr64-cameo-pcgs-cac-pcgs-537340-/p/1374-23001.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,528 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @Pedzola said:
    I don't want my 1000th post to be a throw-away, so I thought I'd share a significant newp!

    I saw this pattern $10 in Heritage inventory a couple of months ago. Despite knowing next to zip about patterns, I was immediately excited about it and pulled the trigger.

    I have been looking for a $10 lib for my type set for what feels like forever. This pattern doesn't take the slot, but knowing how tough it is to find any NICE no-motto lib, I was primed to look at it differently.

    I think this is just an incredible piece of numismatic history. Here are some of the things I love about it:

    1) Graded 64 - an incredible state of preservation for any eagle of the era. This one is particularly nice with immaculate surfaces. CAC approval also doesn't hurt.

    2) It's a proof! Proof gold is out of reach for most collectors, including myself. it's neat to think this one could have been struck using the same obverse die as a regular 1863 $10 proof.

    3) Transitional motto - fascinating historical evidence of the political environment during the civil war, and experimentation leading to the familiar motto.

    4) Tiny mintage - my rudimentary research finds about 20 struck, making it high R6 rarity. It seems these were likely made for collectors and virtually all were carefully saved.

    5) Pedigree - another neat piece of numismatic history to know who has appreciated this coin before.

    6) Off-metal pattern - being bronzed copper in and of itself makes this a heck of a conversation piece.


    If this coin were struck in gold it would be worth an incredible amount of $$. As-is, the ~$5k I paid felt like an absolute steal for such a significant piece. I am thrilled to have it.

    Any pattern experts out there? Happy to share this fascinating coin for my thousandth post!

    Congratulations on acquiring such a cool coin.
    Coincidentally, here’s a perfect companion piece for it and it’s even the same (numerical) grade.😉

    https://coins.ha.com/itm/patterns/1863-10-liberty-ten-dollar-judd-349-pollock-421-unique-pr64-cameo-pcgs-cac-pcgs-537340-/p/1374-23001.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

    A question. The auction listing linked references an October, 1875 auction sale. IIRC correctly, circulating gold was still worth a premium to paper currency at that time. If so, would the recorded sale price ($16) have been the price in gold or the price in currency?

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,005 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Pedzola said:
    I don't want my 1000th post to be a throw-away, so I thought I'd share a significant newp!

    I saw this pattern $10 in Heritage inventory a couple of months ago. Despite knowing next to zip about patterns, I was immediately excited about it and pulled the trigger.

    I have been looking for a $10 lib for my type set for what feels like forever. This pattern doesn't take the slot, but knowing how tough it is to find any NICE no-motto lib, I was primed to look at it differently.

    I think this is just an incredible piece of numismatic history. Here are some of the things I love about it:

    1) Graded 64 - an incredible state of preservation for any eagle of the era. This one is particularly nice with immaculate surfaces. CAC approval also doesn't hurt.

    2) It's a proof! Proof gold is out of reach for most collectors, including myself. it's neat to think this one could have been struck using the same obverse die as a regular 1863 $10 proof.

    3) Transitional motto - fascinating historical evidence of the political environment during the civil war, and experimentation leading to the familiar motto.

    4) Tiny mintage - my rudimentary research finds about 20 struck, making it high R6 rarity. It seems these were likely made for collectors and virtually all were carefully saved.

    5) Pedigree - another neat piece of numismatic history to know who has appreciated this coin before.

    6) Off-metal pattern - being bronzed copper in and of itself makes this a heck of a conversation piece.


    If this coin were struck in gold it would be worth an incredible amount of $$. As-is, the ~$5k I paid felt like an absolute steal for such a significant piece. I am thrilled to have it.

    Any pattern experts out there? Happy to share this fascinating coin for my thousandth post!

    Congratulations on acquiring such a cool coin.
    Coincidentally, here’s a perfect companion piece for it and it’s even the same (numerical) grade.😉

    https://coins.ha.com/itm/patterns/1863-10-liberty-ten-dollar-judd-349-pollock-421-unique-pr64-cameo-pcgs-cac-pcgs-537340-/p/1374-23001.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

    A question. The auction listing linked references an October, 1875 auction sale. IIRC correctly, circulating gold was still worth a premium to paper currency at that time. If so, would the recorded sale price ($16) have been the price in gold or the price in currency?

    Sorry, I don’t know. You might want to ask the cataloguer from the 1875 Cohen sale.😉

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • PedzolaPedzola Posts: 1,009 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2024 12:56PM

    @MFeld said:
    Congratulations on acquiring such a cool coin.
    Coincidentally, here’s a perfect companion piece for it and it’s even the same (numerical) grade.😉

    https://coins.ha.com/itm/patterns/1863-10-liberty-ten-dollar-judd-349-pollock-421-unique-pr64-cameo-pcgs-cac-pcgs-537340-/p/1374-23001.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

    That unique gold pattern is on another level. Perhaps whoever is successful in the auction can convince me to part with mine as a companion piece, since it's not happening the other way around. 😆

    Thanks for sharing!

  • thebeavthebeav Posts: 3,750 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's really sharp !
    I can see how it 'bit' you......

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,005 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2024 1:18PM

    @Pedzola said:

    @MFeld said:
    Congratulations on acquiring such a cool coin.
    Coincidentally, here’s a perfect companion piece for it and it’s even the same (numerical) grade.😉

    https://coins.ha.com/itm/patterns/1863-10-liberty-ten-dollar-judd-349-pollock-421-unique-pr64-cameo-pcgs-cac-pcgs-537340-/p/1374-23001.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

    That unique gold pattern is on another level. Perhaps whoever is successful in the auction can convince me to part with mine as a companion piece, since it's not happening the other way around. 😆

    Thanks for sharing!

    I like your open mindedness and flexibility.😀

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • @MFeld said:

    @fastfreddie said:
    What's not to like! I wonder why "IN" was left out of the motto? Maybe they were still experimenting with different mottos.

    There’s no “WE” either.

    I found it interesting that "IS" was left out. In the below images from Eckfeldt's journal (credit to the uspatterns website and Alan Meghrig), he seems to have referred to the motto as "God is our trust". I wonder why the change?

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,528 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @retirednow said:
    Nice pick up and a good summary of the pattern perspective. I also enjoy the history behind "In God we Trust" addition to our coinage.

    While the Gold piece would be a great companion - one might think about the J350 ( w/ Motto within the banner)

    I had picked this piece up a few years back direct from David Lawrence's Inventory.

    Also, I enjoyed the book by William Bierly as a nice read on the subject.

    I knew Bill Bierly when I was still working in Chicago. Great book!

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • goldengolden Posts: 9,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Super cool!

  • P0CKETCHANGEP0CKETCHANGE Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow! Fantastic pickup. Excellent eye appeal, Bass pedigree, scarce, "God Our Trust" motto, CAC-approved, $10 denomination—not an inexpensive acquisition but it almost seems like a bargain all things considered.

    I like the transitional motto patterns (and have been meaning to read the book @retirednow mentioned)—it's one of the reasons I picked up one of the 2c patterns (J-312) from the same year, also ex-Bass:


    Congratulations!

    Nothing is as expensive as free money.

  • oldabeintxoldabeintx Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A VERY informative thread all. I've put together a type set representing the Coinage Act of 1865, which added our motto as well as authorizing the 3c nickel. The set is sort of a "before and after" set, partly utilizing common dates showing the relevant side. The various patterns shown have put me on the hunt for at least one example, as well as Bierly's book. Beautiful coins, great USA and coinage history, what this forum is about, to me.

    PS I've put together sets representing all the Coinage Acts, great fun for type nuts. (No Acts authorizing commems tho, just too many.)

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file