The CLCT PCGS stocks question UP-DATED

silviosi

********I know those shares are not listed anymore. I just find that I still have 110 share which was redeem at 72.50 $ each after the merge.

Question: Do we can still redeem them today? I never received the letter in 2020 due to change of address and not using the account where was deposit. I find today when I close that account and transfer the stocks on my new international investor account.

The old phone number for investors is not anymore in function. Do you have any toughts on this issue? If I lost, I lost.

Silvio

Jacques_Loungecoque

I’m curious how this turns out for you. Please let us know if they still hold redeemable value.

pruebas

I thought when a public company is taken private, the acquiring entity must purchase all the outstanding shares. So your brokerage should have sold them for you (and put the cash into your account) automatically once the deal was finalized.

I don’t believe you were required to do anything to make this happen.

CLCT doesn’t exist anymore, so you should not see them in your account.

DisneyFan

Are you holding a certificate or is your new brokerage firm listing CLCT as an asset on your new account? In either case, the name of the transfer agent should be shown on the stock certificate. Contact the transfer agent. It's possible the funds have been transferred to the transfer agent's state's unclaimed property division.

IkesT

You might have to dip into your Nobel Price money.

silviosi

Ike you has to understand is not the money, it is the fact of the brokerage company which do not advertise me that will be an buyout.

DisneyFan thanks:
When I want to transfer to my new brokerage firm (in this case the CIBC international) on the previous brockerage house list was CLTC present. Was surprised me because the transaction was in 2020 and I was never adviseabout, nor any cash cupon for my taxes purpose.

I do not have the certificate because I buyed in 2012 (I lost money on this stock) and everything was done electronic. I will ask the old brokerage firm to give me all informations and I will keep you in touch.

CIBC Int. will investigate (hope) if they want me to stay with them.

Thanks

MsMorrisine

silviosi you said it was all electronic. does that mean you had no physical paper certificate? it was just electronic entry on an account statement from your broker?

MsMorrisine

hmmmmm cibc... do you live in canada or the us, or ___ ??

JBK

If they were electronically held then I would be very surprised if they were not automatically taken/paid since the merger would have been mandatory.

In any case, the money is still yours, but you need to find where it went.

DisneyFan

@JBK said:
If they were electronically held then I would be very surprised if they were not automatically taken/paid since the merger would have been mandatory.

Electronically held just means the brokerage firm held the stock certificate rather than the client. The brokerage firm holding the certificate would still need to submit the certificate to the transfer agent in order to collect the funds. This sometimes happens when a brokerage firm is not familiar with a company.

JBK

@DisneyFan said:

@JBK said:
If they were electronically held then I would be very surprised if they were not automatically taken/paid since the merger would have been mandatory.

Electronically held just means the brokerage firm held the stock certificate rather than the client. The brokerage firm holding the certificate would still need to submit the certificate to the transfer agent in order to collect the funds. This sometimes happens when a brokerage firm is not familiar with a company.

In my line of work electronically held suggests book entry which means DTC would have handled the merger automatically.

Or, it could mean held by an individual directly with the transfer agent. Same result.

If he had a physical certificate that he had his broker hold on to, I don't consider that "electronically held". He may be using the wrong characterization. That may be what's happening here since he said he did not get a letter on the merger.

yspsales

The shares in the new company are probably where you last held the CLCT stock... or a "paper trail" pointing to the transfer agent.

My brother and I went thru this with a local start up bank. Once they went public a transfer agent held the shares.

I transferred them later to my regular brokerage.

Note sure if transfer agent is the correct terminology.

jmlanzaf

@JBK said:

@DisneyFan said:

@JBK said:
If they were electronically held then I would be very surprised if they were not automatically taken/paid since the merger would have been mandatory.

Electronically held just means the brokerage firm held the stock certificate rather than the client. The brokerage firm holding the certificate would still need to submit the certificate to the transfer agent in order to collect the funds. This sometimes happens when a brokerage firm is not familiar with a company.

In my line of work electronically held suggests book entry which means DTC would have handled the merger automatically.

Or, it could mean held by an individual directly with the transfer agent. Same result.

If he had a physical certificate that he had his broker hold on to, I don't consider that "electronically held". He may be using the wrong characterization. That may be what's happening here since he said he did not get a letter on the merger.

This.

I had a different stock that was bought out. I got the money but the shares still showed up in my account with zero value. They are still there after more than 5 years.

JBK

OP should not confuse the transfer agent with the investor relations number.

Also, as already suggested, it is possible that money has been escheated to the relevant state. In that case you'd gave to claim it from that state.

BAJJERFAN

@MsMorrisine said:
silviosi you said it was all electronic. does that mean you had no physical paper certificate? it was just electronic entry on an account statement from your broker?

More likely his shares could be in street name unless he specifically asked for the certificate.

BAJJERFAN

@jmlanzaf said:

@JBK said:

@DisneyFan said:

@JBK said:
If they were electronically held then I would be very surprised if they were not automatically taken/paid since the merger would have been mandatory.

Electronically held just means the brokerage firm held the stock certificate rather than the client. The brokerage firm holding the certificate would still need to submit the certificate to the transfer agent in order to collect the funds. This sometimes happens when a brokerage firm is not familiar with a company.

In my line of work electronically held suggests book entry which means DTC would have handled the merger automatically.

Or, it could mean held by an individual directly with the transfer agent. Same result.

If he had a physical certificate that he had his broker hold on to, I don't consider that "electronically held". He may be using the wrong characterization. That may be what's happening here since he said he did not get a letter on the merger.

This.

I had a different stock that was bought out. I got the money but the shares still showed up in my account with zero value. They are still there after more than 5 years.

I have a no value listing that should have been removed from my account long ago and my account as passed through a couple different brokerage houses. Since it still has a CUSIP number I was told that a new certificate would need to be created and that there would be a $500 fee. Screw that. It was someone else's responsibility to have removed it.

johnny9434

i heard at one time they held the money in escrow or something until someone claims it.you could look under lost money with the government, just a thought (providing things are up & up)

JBK

@johnny9434 said:
i heard at one time they held the money in escrow or something until someone claims it.you could look under lost money with the government, just a thought (providing things are up & up)

Yes, "escheatment". It would be in the relevant state.

But if he held a physical certificate he might need to surrender that before the transfer agent would pay out.

lermish

@BAJJERFAN said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@JBK said:

@DisneyFan said:

@JBK said:
If they were electronically held then I would be very surprised if they were not automatically taken/paid since the merger would have been mandatory.

Electronically held just means the brokerage firm held the stock certificate rather than the client. The brokerage firm holding the certificate would still need to submit the certificate to the transfer agent in order to collect the funds. This sometimes happens when a brokerage firm is not familiar with a company.

In my line of work electronically held suggests book entry which means DTC would have handled the merger automatically.

Or, it could mean held by an individual directly with the transfer agent. Same result.

If he had a physical certificate that he had his broker hold on to, I don't consider that "electronically held". He may be using the wrong characterization. That may be what's happening here since he said he did not get a letter on the merger.

This.

I had a different stock that was bought out. I got the money but the shares still showed up in my account with zero value. They are still there after more than 5 years.

I have a no value listing that should have been removed from my account long ago and my account as passed through a couple different brokerage houses. Since it still has a CUSIP number I was told that a new certificate would need to be created and that there would be a $500 fee. Screw that. It was someone else's responsibility to have removed it.

You probably just need to have your broker/advisor fill out a form to remove a worthless security. Still happens fairly frequently from old, defunct tech bubble stocks.

If you have a self directed account, you'll have to deal with the maze of customer service people.

But in no circumstances does it cost $500 or does a new certificate need to be created. You've been misinformed.

BAJJERFAN

@lermish said:

@BAJJERFAN said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@JBK said:

@DisneyFan said:

@JBK said:
If they were electronically held then I would be very surprised if they were not automatically taken/paid since the merger would have been mandatory.

Electronically held just means the brokerage firm held the stock certificate rather than the client. The brokerage firm holding the certificate would still need to submit the certificate to the transfer agent in order to collect the funds. This sometimes happens when a brokerage firm is not familiar with a company.

In my line of work electronically held suggests book entry which means DTC would have handled the merger automatically.

Or, it could mean held by an individual directly with the transfer agent. Same result.

If he had a physical certificate that he had his broker hold on to, I don't consider that "electronically held". He may be using the wrong characterization. That may be what's happening here since he said he did not get a letter on the merger.

This.

I had a different stock that was bought out. I got the money but the shares still showed up in my account with zero value. They are still there after more than 5 years.

I have a no value listing that should have been removed from my account long ago and my account as passed through a couple different brokerage houses. Since it still has a CUSIP number I was told that a new certificate would need to be created and that there would be a $500 fee. Screw that. It was someone else's responsibility to have removed it.

You probably just need to have your broker/advisor fill out a form to remove a worthless security. Still happens fairly frequently from old, defunct tech bubble stocks.

If you have a self directed account, you'll have to deal with the maze of customer service people.

But in no circumstances does it cost $500 or does a new certificate need to be created. You've been misinformed.

Thanks

It's been a couple years since I dealt with it so I might try again.

johnny9434

@JBK said:

@johnny9434 said:
i heard at one time they held the money in escrow or something until someone claims it.you could look under lost money with the government, just a thought (providing things are up & up)

Yes, "escheatment". It would be in the relevant state.

But if he held a physical certificate he might need to surrender that before the transfer agent would pay out.

Gotcha, t.y

MsMorrisine

@lermish said:

You probably just need to have your broker/advisor fill out a form to remove a worthless security. Still happens fairly frequently from old, defunct tech bubble stocks.

If you have a self directed account, you'll have to deal with the maze of customer service people.

But in no circumstances does it cost $500 or does a new certificate need to be created. You've been misinformed.

absolutely not a situation where you ask the entry to be removed because it is worthless. absolutely not seeking that and don't ask since you may lose the entire investment (get $0)
CLCT was bought out, so it has value

larger self-directed brokerages can have physical offices for walk-ins

asking the current broker, I assume is cibc, instead of the old broker who has the old account entry may have them asking for a fee if there is an old stock certificate involved. "research" fee... maybe

if this is a case where there is an old certificate, but it is lost, there will be fees to be paid to deal with the "processing" as well as a fee for a surety bond (insurance policy against someone finding the old cert and trying to cash it) Generally the transfer agent won't issue a new certificate for a buyout (what's the point?) but i'm not sure who'd pay up the buyout price. the transfer agent may know. if the transfer agent doesn't pay up, the new brokerage may help (fee?)

as far as escheatment, it may have gone into unclaimed property. but how the asset is handled might vary if he lives outside the usa. in the usa, the asset would typically be transferred to the state of last known residence. this is why i was asking where he lived

if there is no paper certificate ever issued, the first place to start is actually the old brokerage. the bone heads should have automatically credited the buyout money without you taking action
(https://www.fool.com/knowledge-center/what-happens-to-a-companys-stock-when-a-buyout-is.aspx)

also, consider that CLCT was paying a fat dividend quarterly. i'd also be looking at old account statements to see if you were receiving them. yeah everyone, i know it's automatic. but see, if there is a physical paper certificate and you moved, then you probably have dividend checks owed to you, too.

MsMorrisine

@jmlanzaf said:

I had a different stock that was bought out. I got the money but the shares still showed up in my account with zero value. They are still there after more than 5 years.

that's a brokerage failing. this is a matter of getting them to remove the entry.

see below

MsMorrisine

@BAJJERFAN said:

I have a no value listing that should have been removed from my account long ago and my account as passed through a couple different brokerage houses. Since it still has a CUSIP number I was told that a new certificate would need to be created and that there would be a $500 fee. Screw that. It was someone else's responsibility to have removed it.

this is only a matter of filling out a form and mailing it in. I've done it ... drumnroll... worldcom anyone? (gimme a break, i bought as a penny)

if a broker wants $500 and fees (and who prints certificates for obliterated companies?) then it sounds like the broker wants some free cash or has no idea what they're talking about

MsMorrisine

generally if someone walks in out of the blue with an ancient paper certificate and says is this worth anything, then they'll likely want a fee to research it

this, for silviosi , is not the case. the company that has the old account needs to deal with this, unless there is a paper certificate, then it's just a matter of finding out who pays you and where you send it when you cash it in. in that case I'd start with the transfer agent

MsMorrisine

@JBK said:
OP should not confuse the transfer agent with the investor relations number.

Also, as already suggested, it is possible that money has been escheated to the relevant state. In that case you'd gave to claim it from that state.

possible but not necessarily so even after all this time

it's also possible he lives outside the usa

MsMorrisine

from this document, taken shortly before the buyout, ( https://materials.proxyvote.com/default.aspx?docHostID=p8AJo9WtC8cKjHgkBTZTAjC4FQLzwwsxD+c5vdBCpFE=&encr=Y )

it looks like the transfer agent at the time was Broadridge

lermish

@MsMorrisine said:

@lermish said:

You probably just need to have your broker/advisor fill out a form to remove a worthless security. Still happens fairly frequently from old, defunct tech bubble stocks.

If you have a self directed account, you'll have to deal with the maze of customer service people.

But in no circumstances does it cost $500 or does a new certificate need to be created. You've been misinformed.

absolutely not a situation where you ask the entry to be removed because it is worthless. absolutely not seeking that and don't ask since you may lose the entire investment (get $0)
CLCT was bought out, so it has value

The conversation/recommendation wasn't regarding OP's situation, it was regarding @BAJJERFAN 's situation.

If you are going to give advice or a recommendation please make sure that you understand what you're reading first.

lermish

@MsMorrisine said:

@JBK said:
OP should not confuse the transfer agent with the investor relations number.

Also, as already suggested, it is possible that money has been escheated to the relevant state. In that case you'd gave to claim it from that state.

possible but not necessarily so even after all this time

it's also possible he lives outside the usa

See my note above. It's not possible he lives outside the US, he DOES live outside the US (in Canada).

You made an awful lot of posts and statements of fact when you seemingly haven't read and absorbed a lot of the other data. If you are going to attempt to give financial advice you should be taking a lot more care.

MsMorrisine

oh, and while I'm thinking about it, if it is the old brokerage... give them your new address. if it is a physical paper certificate, then make sure the transfer agent has your new address

MsMorrisine

+1

jmlanzaf

@MsMorrisine said:

@jmlanzaf said:

I had a different stock that was bought out. I got the money but the shares still showed up in my account with zero value. They are still there after more than 5 years.

that's a brokerage failing. this is a matter of getting them to remove the entry.

see below

I didn't say it couldn't get done. What I suggested was that it was possible for a worthless stock that you no longer really own to still show up. That MAY be the OPs issue.

logger7

I'd think it would be automatic with the buyout; when I had shares in Ventana gold, it was transferred/cashed out automatically at the buyout price. You could always try calling up Steve Cohen in Greenwich, CT and see what he has to say....

BStrauss3

Assuming the shares were held electronically in the name of the brokerage (and this has been common for at least a couple of decades), then there would have been a large block at CIBC (or wherever) that would have been paid for to the brokerage when the stock was tendered as part of going private or when it was canceled.

It's then up to the brokerage to handle the money they received and put it into the accounts of their individual customers.

It should have been all electronic magic, but, well, some things work and some things don't work. And other things work until they don't work and then they don't work. Or maybe they work later for some other situation.

Computers are deterministic. You can ALWAYS figure out what happened and why IF YOU DIG DEEP ENOUGH. And if you care to do the digging.

Still, once you get off into the realm of dusty old closed accounts, it gets weird.

Dell settled a class action lawsuit over some shenanigans they pulled when they went private or public or something like that. Settled it a few months back and paid "me" $80 - not admitting any guilt you understand. But the record of ownership the court had was old records from the brokers from five or ten years ago. What they had was a old, closed account at brokerage S*****.

They sent my $80 to S***** to the attention of closed account ####-####.

Did S***** reopen the account, and generate a letter to my address (which hasn't changed although that's unusual in today's mobile society). Did they try to call me (phone number hasn't changed)? Try to Email me (which hasn't changed in 20+ years).

Nope.

They just left it sitting there in a closed account.

To get my money - which was sitting "safely" in that closed account, not generating interest, not sending me statements (because it was closed), not accessible online (because it was closed)... They had to reactivate the account via some backroom magic. Give THAT a day to percolate through the systems. Then I could recreate the online account and ask that my money be sent to me or transferred to another brokerage.

Here's where it gets funny. Something they did caused my current account (new job new 401k new brokerage accounts) to record some kind of change in account information. And they generated two POSTAL letters (old ? new ? account address) telling me the change had been made.

And then two more. And two more. Every day.

For months.

Two letters in the mail.

When I called to complain, they did some more backroom "magic". Did it work? Nope.

Now my other account is sending me two letters per day (total four) telling me that my account information has been changed, please review it.

Four letters.

First class.

Every stinking day.

Oh, and there is $8.60 in the account. Not worth MY time to call again.

BAJJERFAN

@MsMorrisine said:

@BAJJERFAN said:

I have a no value listing that should have been removed from my account long ago and my account as passed through a couple different brokerage houses. Since it still has a CUSIP number I was told that a new certificate would need to be created and that there would be a $500 fee. Screw that. It was someone else's responsibility to have removed it.

this is only a matter of filling out a form and mailing it in. I've done it ... drumnroll... worldcom anyone? (gimme a break, i bought as a penny)

if a broker wants $500 and fees (and who prints certificates for obliterated companies?) then it sounds like the broker wants some free cash or has no idea what they're talking about

Whomever it was that the broker would work through wanted the $500, not the brokerage themselves.They would just pass the fee along to me.

BAJJERFAN

@BStrauss3 said:
Assuming the shares were held electronically in the name of the brokerage (and this has been common for at least a couple of decades), then there would have been a large block at CIBC (or wherever) that would have been paid for to the brokerage when the stock was tendered as part of going private or when it was canceled.

It's then up to the brokerage to handle the money they received and put it into the accounts of their individual customers.

It should have been all electronic magic, but, well, some things work and some things don't work. And other things work until they don't work and then they don't work. Or maybe they work later for some other situation.

Computers are deterministic. You can ALWAYS figure out what happened and why IF YOU DIG DEEP ENOUGH. And if you care to do the digging.

Still, once you get off into the realm of dusty old closed accounts, it gets weird.

Dell settled a class action lawsuit over some shenanigans they pulled when they went private or public or something like that. Settled it a few months back and paid "me" $80 - not admitting any guilt you understand. But the record of ownership the court had was old records from the brokers from five or ten years ago. What they had was a old, closed account at brokerage S*****.

They sent my $80 to S***** to the attention of closed account ####-####.

Did S***** reopen the account, and generate a letter to my address (which hasn't changed although that's unusual in today's mobile society). Did they try to call me (phone number hasn't changed)? Try to Email me (which hasn't changed in 20+ years).

Nope.

They just left it sitting there in a closed account.

To get my money - which was sitting "safely" in that closed account, not generating interest, not sending me statements (because it was closed), not accessible online (because it was closed)... They had to reactivate the account via some backroom magic. Give THAT a day to percolate through the systems. Then I could recreate the online account and ask that my money be sent to me or transferred to another brokerage.

Here's where it gets funny. Something they did caused my current account (new job new 401k new brokerage accounts) to record some kind of change in account information. And they generated two POSTAL letters (old ? new ? account address) telling me the change had been made.

And then two more. And two more. Every day.

For months.

Two letters in the mail.

When I called to complain, they did some more backroom "magic". Did it work? Nope.

Now my other account is sending me two letters per day (total four) telling me that my account information has been changed, please review it.

Four letters.

First class.

Every stinking day.

Oh, and there is $8.60 in the account. Not worth MY time to call again.

How much is it costing them to mail that each day? Do not open them.When you get a week's worth write refuse/d on the front and put them back into the mail. The USPS will return them.

silviosi

Thank you very much for all informations.

Tomorrow morning I will call back the broker and ask to investigate. I moved from them just the shares and the derivatives. I will still stay with them for the private investing (theirs speciality). I am with them from more then 25 years and the collaboration is perfect smoot and cordial. So I will ask them to go in theirs registry and transfer to CIBC everything related.

The CIBC find out the defunct stock when the transfer was done Friday and they has the service for that kind of stocks. Will cost??? I think so. On my side I will try to call Steve Cohen.

I buyed this stock CLCT at a request of two big coins specialists in New York restaurant. I done just at request and not for investing. Our host from this perspective (stock market) it is not an attractive because touch just a small part of the society and very small number of investors, and for this reason I didn't pay attention for, and the share was not in my book. On private investing, for TPG it is other ballgame.

Thank you very much all. I was courious to see if someone have'it to deal with same situation as this.

Silvio

MsMorrisine

@silviosi said:
Thank you very much for all informations.

Tomorrow morning I will call back the broker and ask to investigate. I moved from them just the shares and the derivatives. I will still stay with them for the private investing (theirs speciality). I am with them from more then 25 years and the collaboration is perfect smoot and cordial. So I will ask them to go in theirs registry and transfer to CIBC everything related.

The CIBC find out the defunct stock when the transfer was done Friday and they has the service for that kind of stocks. Will cost??? I think so. On my side I will try to call Steve Cohen.

I buyed this stock CLCT at a request of two big coins specialists in New York restaurant. I done just at request and not for investing. Our host from this perspective (stock market) it is not an attractive because touch just a small part of the society and very small number of investors, and for this reason I didn't pay attention for, and the share was not in my book. On private investing, for TPG it is other ballgame.

Thank you very much all. I was courious to see if someone have'it to deal with same situation as this.

Silvio

call the old broker and get them to deposit the buyout money into your old account. this should have been done by them automatically. this would be a no fee situation dealing with them

DelawareDoons

Should automatically be converted as all outstanding shares must be bought. Call the brokerage that held your shares and get your money.

Best of luck.

BStrauss3

@BAJJERFAN said:
How much is it costing them to mail that each day? Do not open them.When you get a week's worth write refuse/d on the front and put them back into the mail. The USPS will return them.

USPS presorted first class mail cost... $0.507 (5- Digit Automation Letter - 1 oz.)

USPS return service is at no additional charge

I just checked USPS Informed Delivery and there are four letters today.

I would say it's much more fun to refuse them individually, except either way it will simply lead to S***** marking my postal address invalid and trigger more update letters.

I'm done. I've called in twice and opened two back-office IT tickets. The first time the rep never called me back (and I doubt they actually did create the ticket). The second time he did call me back and left instructions that didn't map to their web site.

As an IT consultant, my time is worth between $125 and $500 an hour.

silviosi

I lost the UP-Date for this posting.so rewrite.

I talk with the broker yesterday, and to day they give me the result. The ammount of the buy-back, by mistake was deposit in other account. I refused the interst but I learn me and them that indifferent of the amount of the invest, we have to keep trak.

I do not blame them because they been specialize in private investment, the ammount of the buy-back (in this case) it is inferior to the monthly divident, so easy to be put in other accound near your number.

I thank to all for big lesson you give me about thos kind of facts that could incure in investing. I learn also to keep better track and also to look for any SEC filled by invested companies.

All my best for all.
Silvio

MsMorrisine

happy things worked out

JBK

Do we all get a commission, or a finder's fee?

silviosi

JBK Posts:
Do we all get a commission, or a finder's fee?

I think I have to pay the bill on meeeting.