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This 1965 Stooges Wax is PSA 8 - Seriously???

https://www.ebay.com/itm/266705509773

PSA8 SERIOUSLY? WTF?

Looks like a very WEAK 4 at best!

Unless otherwise specified my posts represent only my opinion, not fact.

Comments

  • 82FootballWaxMemorys82FootballWaxMemorys Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As per Published PSA Standards:
    https://www.psacard.com/gradingstandards#packs

    NM-MT
    PSA 8
    A PSA 8 wax and/or cello pack exhibits similar attributes to a PSA 9 but may possess one or more of the following technical imperfections upon close inspection: slight corner wear, pin-sized hole/tear, wrinkle in the surface of the wax/cellophane wrapping, slight toning or soiling on the seal, very slight toning of the wrapper itself and/or a slight centering imperfection to the wrap. The centering of the pack text and image must be 90/10 or better. In addition, the pack must be "fresh" in appearance and free of any water or mildew damage to the wrapper or gum to qualify for this grade.

    _
    A PSA 8 plastic and/or foil pack exhibits similar attributes to a PSA 9 but may possess one or more of the following technical imperfections upon close inspection: slight wear or bend in corners, a pin-sized hole/tear or nick on corners, slight surface scratch, edge ticks that do not break the foil, a wrinkle, roller-mark, or fin impression on the surface of the wrapping, or slight separation on the seal. The pack must be "fresh" in appearance and free of any water or mildew damage to the wrapper or gum to qualify for this grade. The centering of the pack text and image must be 90/10 or better._

    3 possibilities for the pack pictured in my last post:

    1) It's been tampered with. However one would think 4SC is smart enough to inspect the merchandise. They are not Probstein or PWCC after all.
    2) Certain coastal based submitter's really do get preferential treatment
    3) PSA is totally incompetent.

    Unless otherwise specified my posts represent only my opinion, not fact.

  • EstilEstil Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭✭

    This 1965 Stooges Wax is PSA 8 - Seriously???
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9AuTriTmro

    WISHLIST
    Dimes: 54S, 53P, 50P, 49S, 45D+S, 44S, 43D, 41S, 40D+S, 39D+S, 38D+S, 37D+S, 36S, 35D+S, all 16-34's
    Quarters: 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
    74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
    1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
    1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wrapper damage from the gum after being holdered which is not uncommon with wax packs, unfortunately. It was NM-MT when it was first holdered 15 years ago.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • RonSportscardsRonSportscards Posts: 795 ✭✭✭✭

    At least you know the gum is loose and dry and not welded to a card and bleeding through.

    And it's only the Three Stooges with Curly or Shemp. Joe and Curly Joe were unwatchable.

  • GrooGroo Posts: 80 ✭✭

    I'm a Huge Shemp Fan!

    I'd not even pay $40 for a horrid looking pack like that. Displays worse than a PSA2.

  • gemintgemint Posts: 6,068 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2024 9:31AM

    What Tim said. I have a few packs I submitted myself like that, though not as badly damaged. The saddest one is my 1963 wax pack. It graded MINT 9 but arrived back to me with a new tear in the lower edge of the pack which wasn't there when I submitted it.

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 8,014 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Any recourse with the shipper by the owner if damage occured in transit during the packs return? From UPS, FedEx etc.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BLUEJAYWAY said:
    Any recourse with the shipper by the owner if damage occured in transit during the packs return? From UPS, FedEx etc.

    No, it's a product of the design of the holder, not damage that was preventable by the courier should one choose to ship. It's the risk you take. I've discounted packs that suffered tears in transit.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • HarnessracingHarnessracing Posts: 317 ✭✭✭

    What??? That’s what insurance is for. It’s not the owners responsibility or risk. If the product is damaged because of design then it’s the design owners fault. To say it’s a risk isn’t a fair answer. If the pack came damaged it would be covered by insurance

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,520 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2024 10:30AM

    @Harnessracing said:
    What??? That’s what insurance is for. It’s not the owners responsibility or risk. If the product is damaged because of design then it’s the design owners fault. To say it’s a risk isn’t a fair answer. If the pack came damaged it would be covered by insurance

    That sounds nice and all but it's not the reality. The alternative is to not holder wax packs at all or to completely redesign the holder so that the pack within the well is better immobilized similar to the GAI holder design. Not to say that gum tears didn't occur with GAI graded wax packs, either, but it was far less frequent an occurrence than it has been with PSA graded wax packs. Life isn't always fair, either.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • HarnessracingHarnessracing Posts: 317 ✭✭✭

    Has nothing to do with sounding nice, has to do with insuring the package against damage. Take your issue up with PSA you always back them anyway.

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,520 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2024 10:51AM

    @Harnessracing said:
    Has nothing to do with sounding nice, has to do with insuring the package against damage. Take your issue up with PSA you always back them anyway.

    It's not my pack and I've already stated the issue at hand is with the design of the holder itself, not the courier.

    Additionally, I prefer these older holders all things being equal as the newer ones also have an issue with the well within the holder not being wide enough to accommodate the width variances inherent to wax packs for which the wrapper often billows out a bit.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • Kepper19Kepper19 Posts: 313 ✭✭✭

    @grote15 said:

    @Harnessracing said:
    Has nothing to do with sounding nice, has to do with insuring the package against damage. Take your issue up with PSA you always back them anyway.

    It's not my pack and I've already stated the issue at hand is with the design of the holder itself, not the courier.

    Additionally, I prefer these older holders all things being equal as the newer ones also have an issue with the well within the holder not being wide enough to accommodate the width variances inherent to wax packs for which the wrapper often billows out a bit.

    yep...I had them force a dozen or so 1977 Star Wars packs into the latest holders and they completely f'ed up most of the backs of the packs, bunching up the edges, smooshing together the flaps, etc...to say I was irritated at those results...

  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2024 4:40AM

    At some point, maybe we should conclude that wax packs are just not well suited for encapsulation.

  • GrooGroo Posts: 80 ✭✭

    @PaulMaul said:
    At some point, maybe we should conclude that wax packs are just not well suited for encapsulation.

    Correct when done in a careless haphazard slipshod manner by callous entities

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,512 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have seen this many times in the past. I would definitely not submit any pack I had for encapsulation. too risky. that pack was destroyed.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,520 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2024 11:39AM

    @PaulMaul said:
    At some point, maybe we should conclude that wax packs are just not well suited for encapsulation.

    That is a valid point..when done correctly, they look great, but it is occasionally a risky proposition due to the aforementioned issues.




    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Groo said:

    @PaulMaul said:
    At some point, maybe we should conclude that wax packs are just not well suited for encapsulation.

    Correct when done in a careless haphazard slipshod manner by callous entities

    I honestly don’t think it’s carelessness, I just don’t think there is a feasible way of encapsulating wax packs with loose gum, which all nice fresh packs should have. If there were a viable solution, I think they would have hit upon it after multiple redesigns.

  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @grote15 said:

    @PaulMaul said:
    At some point, maybe we should conclude that wax packs are just not well suited for encapsulation.

    That is a valid point..when done correctly, they look great, but it is occasionally a risky proposition due to the aforementioned issues.

    They do look nice if they “arrive alive.”

    You say “When done correctly,” but isn’t it more likely some degree of luck? Either the gum isn’t completely loose (which without encapsulation issues I would view as a negative) or it just didn’t move around in a destructive way. But who’s to say that luck won’t run out, especially after being shipped four times to be graded?

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,520 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2024 2:03PM

    @PaulMaul said:

    @grote15 said:

    @PaulMaul said:
    At some point, maybe we should conclude that wax packs are just not well suited for encapsulation.

    That is a valid point..when done correctly, they look great, but it is occasionally a risky proposition due to the aforementioned issues.

    They do look nice if they “arrive alive.”

    You say “When done correctly,” but isn’t it more likely some degree of luck? Either the gum isn’t completely loose (which without encapsulation issues I would view as a negative) or it just didn’t move around in a destructive way. But who’s to say that luck won’t run out, especially after being shipped four times to be graded?

    That is true about the gum. My point above was more about the newer holders and the issue with the wells within the holders not being wide enough to properly accommodate the wax pack once holdered.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • mintonlyplsmintonlypls Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was fortunate to be in town for a funeral at Schererville, IN in mid February and dropped off my 1962 Topps Baseball Wax Pack GAI-7.5 1st Series with Managers’ Dream on back for authentication. It reduced the risk in half of ripping the wax wrapper by having to be shipped only from Schererville to PSA…then PSA to my house.

    mint_only_pls
  • dontippetdontippet Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭✭

    As has been said, it's the gum. I've purchased PSA 10 packs before where the corners were ripped open. I returned them, but am sure it was the gum sliding around.

    > [Click on this link to see my ebay listings.](https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&_udlo=&_udhi=&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=61611&_sargn=-1&saslc=1&_salic=1&_fss=1&_fsradio=&LH_SpecificSeller=1&_saslop=1&_sasl=mygirlsthree3&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_fosrp=1)
    >

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  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,708 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Might be a crazy idea, but would PSA consider offering a service whereby they confirm the pack is unopened, but then carefully open it, dispose of the gum, and then carefully reseal it.

    It still gets slabbed as an unopened pack, gum removed, and hence no future damage from the gum ripping the pack or destroying the cards.

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They can limit the damage caused by gum by using a mylar sleeve within the well. This is something they have done in the past but inconsistently. The sleeve would help to immobilize the gum within the holder.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • dontippetdontippet Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭✭

    Couldn't you also just heat up the pack slightly, melt the gum to the top card or the wax wrapper, then no more movement?

    > [Click on this link to see my ebay listings.](https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&_udlo=&_udhi=&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=61611&_sargn=-1&saslc=1&_salic=1&_fss=1&_fsradio=&LH_SpecificSeller=1&_saslop=1&_sasl=mygirlsthree3&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_fosrp=1)
    >

    Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
  • GrooGroo Posts: 80 ✭✭
    edited April 2, 2024 10:02AM

    ^ wax pack baking service ?

    Probably a bad idea given

    Melting point of:

    Cane Sugar = ~367F
    Wax = ~115-195F depending on wax type and grade

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 8,014 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @grote15 said:
    They can limit the damage caused by gum by using a mylar sleeve within the well. This is something they have done in the past but inconsistently. The sleeve would help to immobilize the gum within the holder.

    It would be a welcome addition on a permanent basis to provide such a seemingly small service to immobilize the floating of the gum. Especially in light of the travel time of the pack and it's related grading expense.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,520 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dontippet said:
    Couldn't you also just heat up the pack slightly, melt the gum to the top card or the wax wrapper, then no more movement?

    Good lord, NO!!!!



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,708 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If everyone would just bust open the packs as they were made to do, there wouldn't be this problem. 😉

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