mercury FB and Bag mark

RonaldDay

I would put up a picture, but I'm pretty sure we've all seen them. Pristine mercury dimes, magical glowing fields, plump round bands with a single bag mark on the reverse, right across the center band. It happened to me on a coin graded MS68. No other marks to speak of, Fully struck with every detail, but for that one unfortunate 1/32" bag mark, that can only be seen with a loupe - fails to meet the designation.

In the meantime, plenty of dimes with much weaker strikes and detracting bag marks get the designation.

I always thought the FB designation was about the strike, like FBL and FS - though I'm pretty sure an unfortunate bag mark will prevent those as well.

MsMorrisine

define FB

Manifest_Destiny

I've seen this show before.

Insider3

Don't expect anything logical when it comes to coins and the guys who put values on them. The plain truth is that some nobody, decided that any mark across a fully struck design feature voided the designation. You, me, and everyone went along with it and it became the standard. So-called Standards" are not fixed and this one may change eventually. After all, some folks only consider the bottom set of bell lines now for the FBL designation.

IMO, marks and strike are to be considered separately!

Insider3

@MsMorrisine said:
define FB

You must know that the definition of FB depends on who you ask.

MsMorrisine

I'm asking the op

Jimnight

Put the Picture up

mr1931S

@Jimnight said:
Put the Picture up

reasonable request

ShaunBC5

If you don’t like the TPG definition of “FB” then gobble up all the coins that missed it by a bag mark and be thrilled with your collection. You could have a group of coins that was super well-struck at a fraction of the FB cost.

RonaldDay

@ShaunBC5 said:
If you don’t like the TPG definition of “FB” then gobble up all the coins that missed it by a bag mark and be thrilled with your collection. You could have a group of coins that was super well-struck at a fraction of the FB cost.

I already do that. I'll take a well-struck 65 or 66 over a glowing weakly struck 67 any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Technically strike is supposed to be part of the grade but I've seen some real pancakes in 67 holders. Not my cup of tea, but that's why there are so many flavors of ice cream.

As for the other question, not yours, about FBL? FH, FB, FT, FBL while ostensibly about strike is more about die state that the actual strike and as such the die state of the Obverse should be taken into account as well IMO. Many of us wonder why a bag mark should affect a designation about die state, seems like a reasonable question.

JBK

Look at it this way: if a bag mark across the bands did not preclude FB designation then a coin with only a slight break in the bands could have a well-placed "bag mark" added to conceal the lack of actual FB.

RonaldDay

@JBK said:
Look at it this way: if a bag mark across the bands did not preclude FB designation then a coin with only a slight break in the bands could have a well-placed "bag mark" added to conceal the lack of actual FB.

I must not have communicated my position clearly, for that I apologize. I wouldn't give a full bands designation based solely on the band. In my mind, the FB, FS etc... designations are misnomers. They should all simply be FS (full strike) for both the reverse and obverse. After all, who cares if you have a thin band across the torch if the rest fo the coin is as flat as a 2022 dime?

RonaldDay

Here are your pictures

Manifest_Destiny

Not FB

jmlanzaf

@RonaldDay said:

@JBK said:
Look at it this way: if a bag mark across the bands did not preclude FB designation then a coin with only a slight break in the bands could have a well-placed "bag mark" added to conceal the lack of actual FB.

I must not have communicated my position clearly, for that I apologize. I wouldn't give a full bands designation based solely on the band. In my mind, the FB, FS etc... designations are misnomers. They should all simply be FS (full strike) for both the reverse and obverse. After all, who cares if you have a thin band across the torch if the rest fo the coin is as flat as a 2022 dime?

You just said that the designation is more about die state than strike.

RonaldDay

@jmlanzaf said:

@RonaldDay said:

@JBK said:
Look at it this way: if a bag mark across the bands did not preclude FB designation then a coin with only a slight break in the bands could have a well-placed "bag mark" added to conceal the lack of actual FB.

I must not have communicated my position clearly, for that I apologize. I wouldn't give a full bands designation based solely on the band. In my mind, the FB, FS etc... designations are misnomers. They should all simply be FS (full strike) for both the reverse and obverse. After all, who cares if you have a thin band across the torch if the rest fo the coin is as flat as a 2022 dime?

You just said that the designation is more about die state than strike.

Yea, I did. While a fully struck coin with worn dies is never going to give you the details you are looking for on a coin, a weakly struck coin with new dies might not either. Just look at all the Jeffersons without steps in the 70's and 80's. It wouldn't matter how hard they hammered those coins, you ain't getting no steps outta those dies.

It is only the combination of fresh dies and a good strike that aren't even available in every year for every coin that justifies the designation. But I'm a typeset collector and don't really care if I can put together an entire set of (near) perfect coins from well struck new dies.

Smudge

@Manifest_Destiny said:
Not FB

Pretty close though.

leothelyon

I have 3 Jeff nickels, later 1940'S, two have 6 steps, where the only mark on the entire coin is on the steps. I won't have those graded.
As for how they're graded, seeing coins with weak strikes alongside coins with full strikes receiving the same grades.... With such swings in grading coin could only mean they're trying to make everyone happy. There are so many different levels of collectors out there. I think when the cgc's got started, a treaty of some sort was made between the old timers/school collectors who collected raw coins and those who were venturing/starting out, what quality of coin gets graded high and low. But I could be wrong and won't go any further into this.
But I don't expect everyone to collect coins to the degree I collect them and I suspect all coins will ever be graded at that level. You just have to be patient, bid your time and wait out for that coin you're seeking that makes you happy.

Leo

erscolo

Mercury Dimes can be a challenge and most times FB or no FB is in the eye of the beholder. I have most of the issues from 1935 to 1945, and they are all graded MS65 or MS66, and several of each have the FB designation. M newest one is below. I have several without the FB designation that are still quite nice, and of course the ones with FB are very nice as well. It is the overall appearance of the dime that will sway me, and since I am not selling them, I will simply admire them.