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In the 4 major sports what official crew has the most influence in the games outcome?

BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 8,012 ✭✭✭✭✭

In other words, do their decisions, especially ones in error,cost a team a victory/loss more in what sport.

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  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 8, 2024 10:03PM

    Baseball and football for the 4 major sports.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngfRPZpieF0

    A home plate umpire can take over a game with a horrendous strike zone like the Livan Hernadez game and NFL/College football refs can over turn any play they want whether it be a questionable pass interference, rouging the passer, holing etc.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭✭

    Angel Hernadez doing Angel Hernandez things as another example in a spring training game

  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,683 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Football - not even close.

  • LandrysFedoraLandrysFedora Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Baseball- see game 5 of the 1997 NLDS, Braves vs Marlins. Home plate umpire for that game was Eric Gregg. The most lopsided called game behind the plate I have ever witnessed.

  • stevekstevek Posts: 27,683 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I remember once playing in a Little League baseball game, I can't recall the exact reason, I think it was getting close to raining or whatever, but it was around the third inning and the ump loudly stated to both teams that he was going to call any pitch remotely close to the plate a strike. So he said swing away at anything to expedite the game. First time I had ever heard of that, but it didn't bother me or anyone else at the time, not even the two coaches. It made sense, mainly because it was equal to everyone for the most part.

    I bring that up because even though a rogue home plate ump acting crazy in a MLB is an understandable point, the "problem" is basically equal to both teams.

    Now in football, basketball, or hockey, a rogue ref or crew could definitely sway a game towards one team, especially when the fix is in. I just think because of the nature of the game, that football is more susceptible to this than basketball or hockey.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 29,456 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd say football

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭✭

    @stevek said:
    I bring that up because even though a rogue home plate ump acting crazy in a MLB is an understandable point, the "problem" is basically equal to both teams.

    In theory thats true, in reality thats not really the case. Yes sometimes its just a bad umpire and it goes both ways, or its 110 degrees on the field and everyone knows the zone will be a little bigger that day, but its generally targeted and deliberate. Its basically impossible to get fired for performance as an MLB umpire and players have talked extensively about umpires that target players they dont like, having different strike zones for different players etc.

    Its much easier for a homeplate umpire to take over a game when you cannot review balls and strikes than it would be to have a completely rouge NFL crew where you can challenge basically every call. The other thing too is in baseball with how these umps think theyre the product now you can get thrown out of a game for looking at one wrong which has a massive impact on the game. Football you have to target someone or get in a fight and even the fights arent always ejections. No major sport throws more players out of the game than baseball and a lot of those are for nonsense reasons or the umpire escalating the situation

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 8,012 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I remember when Maddox,Glavine pitched. I think the umps gave them the outside corner on calls. They painted them well.

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  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,206 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BLUEJAYWAY said:
    I remember when Maddox,Glavine pitched. I think the umps gave them the outside corner on calls. They painted them well.

    Maddux's strike zone was GIGANTIC.

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  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭✭

    The 1990s strike zone was wider in general. Maddux valued movement over velocity and wasnt really a huge beneficial of that zone. His movement worked back to the plate

  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,924 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Basebal21 said:

    Angel Hernadez doing Angel Hernandez things as another example in a spring training game

    Eh, we don't know why the guy got ejected. May have been 100% deserved. And ejecting the guy from the bullpen once he was ejected from the game was the right call - it's a black & white rule.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭✭

    @Tabe said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    Angel Hernadez doing Angel Hernandez things as another example in a spring training game

    Eh, we don't know why the guy got ejected. May have been 100% deserved. And ejecting the guy from the bullpen once he was ejected from the game was the right call - it's a black & white rule.

    We do know, its all on video, Lynn went to the bullpen to get work in to build up arm strength which is what spring training and especially spring training at this time is about.

    Hernandez would have been fired years ago or sent to the minors if they were ever held accountable. MLB has even said so in courts during Hernadezs lawsuits against them but for some reason MLB is scared of umpires and unless theyre caught gambling or arrested they have jobs for life.

    MLB umpires with their ability and how they do just throw out people consistently for no reason acting like theyre the star of the show has the biggest impact on games

  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 5,088 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2024 2:02AM

    @Basebal21 said:

    @Tabe said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    Angel Hernadez doing Angel Hernandez things as another example in a spring training game

    Eh, we don't know why the guy got ejected. May have been 100% deserved. And ejecting the guy from the bullpen once he was ejected from the game was the right call - it's a black & white rule.

    We do know, its all on video, Lynn went to the bullpen to get work in to build up arm strength which is what spring training and especially spring training at this time is about.

    Hernandez would have been fired years ago or sent to the minors if they were ever held accountable. MLB has even said so in courts during Hernadezs lawsuits against them but for some reason MLB is scared of umpires and unless theyre caught gambling or arrested they have jobs for life.

    MLB umpires with their ability and how they do just throw out people consistently for no reason acting like theyre the star of the show has the biggest impact on games

    If I was Lynn, I would've changed into street clothes, and then gone over and sat in the first row of the stands directly behind home plate and heckled Hernandez the rest of the game!

    Steve

  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 5,088 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't know whether baseball or football is worse, but I do know that Jerry Markbright (Holy Roller in 1978), and whoever the referee was who allowed Brett Hull's Stanley Cup-winning goal to stand, after video evidence that his foot was in the crease, can both ROT IN HELL!!!!!!!!!!

    Steve

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,493 ✭✭✭✭✭

    baseball and football for sure. It could sure be done in basketball as well. could call tickey tack fouls on almost every single drive to the basket.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • Alfonz24Alfonz24 Posts: 3,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Basebal21 said:

    @stevek said:
    I bring that up because even though a rogue home plate ump acting crazy in a MLB is an understandable point, the "problem" is basically equal to both teams.

    In theory thats true, in reality thats not really the case. Yes sometimes its just a bad umpire and it goes both ways, or its 110 degrees on the field and everyone knows the zone will be a little bigger that day, but its generally targeted and deliberate. Its basically impossible to get fired for performance as an MLB umpire and players have talked extensively about umpires that target players they dont like, having different strike zones for different players etc.

    Its much easier for a homeplate umpire to take over a game when you cannot review balls and strikes than it would be to have a completely rouge NFL crew where you can challenge basically every call. The other thing too is in baseball with how these umps think theyre the product now you can get thrown out of a game for looking at one wrong which has a massive impact on the game. Football you have to target someone or get in a fight and even the fights arent always ejections. No major sport throws more players out of the game than baseball and a lot of those are for nonsense reasons or the umpire escalating the situation

    I would think Hockey ejects more "players" from games than baseball.

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  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭✭

    @Alfonz24 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @stevek said:
    I bring that up because even though a rogue home plate ump acting crazy in a MLB is an understandable point, the "problem" is basically equal to both teams.

    In theory thats true, in reality thats not really the case. Yes sometimes its just a bad umpire and it goes both ways, or its 110 degrees on the field and everyone knows the zone will be a little bigger that day, but its generally targeted and deliberate. Its basically impossible to get fired for performance as an MLB umpire and players have talked extensively about umpires that target players they dont like, having different strike zones for different players etc.

    Its much easier for a homeplate umpire to take over a game when you cannot review balls and strikes than it would be to have a completely rouge NFL crew where you can challenge basically every call. The other thing too is in baseball with how these umps think theyre the product now you can get thrown out of a game for looking at one wrong which has a massive impact on the game. Football you have to target someone or get in a fight and even the fights arent always ejections. No major sport throws more players out of the game than baseball and a lot of those are for nonsense reasons or the umpire escalating the situation

    I would think Hockey ejects more "players" from games than baseball.

    Baseball ejects by far the most. Hockey rarely has ejections, you can get in a fight and its only five minutes, the refs will even talk trash back to you and if you cross the line its generally a 10 minute misconduct not an ejection which is also very rare. Baseball has umpires following players back to the dugout, throwing people out in the dugout, throwing out pitchers sometimes if you even just look at them the wrong way etc. Baseball umpires have been trained to be actively looking to eject players, no other sport puts up with umpire behavior like that because the ones in charge of the training were/are guys like Joe West

  • LandrysFedoraLandrysFedora Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SDSportsFan said:
    I don't know whether baseball or football is worse, but I do know that Jerry Markbright (Holy Roller in 1978), and whoever the referee was who allowed Brett Hull's Stanley Cup-winning goal to stand, after video evidence that his foot was in the crease, can both ROT IN HELL!!!!!!!!!!

    Steve

    I hated when I saw #9 in stripes reffing a Cowboys game, he was terrible! Thanks for bringing up that memory! :D

  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,924 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Basebal21 said:

    We do know, its all on video, Lynn went to the bullpen to get work in to build up arm strength which is what spring training and especially spring training at this time is about.

    I was referring to him being ejected from the game. He was ejected then went to the bullpen. He's was then kicked out of the bullpen because there's literally a rule saying he couldn't be there.

    Lynn has said he got kicked out for chirping at Hernandez. Based on Lynn's own description, I'm not surprised he got kicked out:

    https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2024/3/12/24098967/if-you-get-ejected-from-a-spring-training-game-and-it-wasnt-televised-did-it-a-hunt-and-peck

    And, again, once ejected, he's not allowed to go into the bullpen.

    https://youtu.be/Kr5A-EeqANQ?si=hfki2oOUpjoAXcyw

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭✭

    @Tabe said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    We do know, its all on video, Lynn went to the bullpen to get work in to build up arm strength which is what spring training and especially spring training at this time is about.

    I was referring to him being ejected from the game. He was ejected then went to the bullpen. He's was then kicked out of the bullpen because there's literally a rule saying he couldn't be there.

    Lynn has said he got kicked out for chirping at Hernandez. Based on Lynn's own description, I'm not surprised he got kicked out:

    https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2024/3/12/24098967/if-you-get-ejected-from-a-spring-training-game-and-it-wasnt-televised-did-it-a-hunt-and-peck

    And, again, once ejected, he's not allowed to go into the bullpen.

    https://youtu.be/Kr5A-EeqANQ?si=hfki2oOUpjoAXcyw

    Thats basically the point. No other major sport allows umpires to throw someone out for chirping an umpire from 60 feet away without repercussions to the umpire. Its even more absurd that it was spring training

    If Mahomes/Allen were thrown out for looking at a ref wrong that ref wouldnt be doing games much longer. Same if Bedard was thrown out of an NHL game or Messi out of a soccer game.

    Baseball has an umpiring problem where to many of the umpires act like they are the product.

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