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My "bald tires" are in encapsulation. Time for GTG.

BarberianBarberian Posts: 3,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 28, 2024 1:10AM in U.S. Coin Forum

At FUN, I submitted a batch of 16 coins for economy grading and another for 16 coins for regular grading. The Regular group is now in "encapsulation," the mugshots have been taken, and the jury has reached a verdict. At this time, I thought it might be fun to post my anticipated grades and await the outcome.

Within this group are 8 sketchy coins that I took a risk on raw off eBay. I call the group my "bald tires" in tribute to Bongo Bongo's similar ride through life and collecting as mine. In almost all cases the coins were purchased off of eBay at a price well below bid such that a details grade is not a concern. A few of these coins created problems with declaring their value because it's dependent upon the final grade. I'm hoping a few that are IMO borderline will straight grade and cost me extra for exceeding the $2500 value limit. Below I give their anticipated grade by percent likelihood as a measure of confidence in a possible straight grade.

1895S dollar - EF Details "cleaned" (95%) / Straight grade 5% - for $450, I win either way.

1855S - VF details "environmental damage" (99.4%) / VF35 (0.6%) - this $1100 purchase started a mini-war with the seller, not so much over the poorly described coin itself, but over it taking 4 weeks to arrive via Registered mail and then refusing to accept a return because it was so late. He finally tried to bribe me for a good review. Then it got ugly ... Anyway, the coin should be graded.

1878CC - VF20 (51%) / VF Details (49%) - This coin has some light environmental damage and polishing. No hairlines. Purchased raw for $1800. I have high hopes for this coin. Seller's pictures adjusted for color.

1882 - VF20 (50%) / VF details (50%) - Circulated 1882s are rare. This one has a nice, colorful look, IMO, but may be dinged for polishing. It would be great if this straight grades.

1888 - Fine 12 (40%) / Fine Details Cleaned" (60%) - Decent looking but wiped.

1888 - PR58-62 (95%) - some hairlines and black spots, but it caught my eye at Summer FUN as a replacement for the coin above.

1871CC - G6 (90%) / G Details (10%) - light wiping but should straight grade.

1871P - XF45 (50%) / XF details "questionable color" (50%) - Nice but color seems off. Fingers crossed.

1853 A&R - VF35 (40%) / VF details - planchet defect (60%) - A favorite coin that got me started on SLH. A nice coin with a planchet streak. It's not going to be replaced, so I hope it grades.

The other Regular service coins and their expected grades are:
1839 WD - VF35
1840 - XF40
1840 - VF30
1841O - VF30
1842 SD LL - VF30
1849 - XF45
1862S - VF35 - nice coin with black crud

I'll predict the Economy coin grades when they are in Encapsulation. So far, they've been photographed but not graded.

3 rim nicks away from Good

Comments

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    BarberianBarberian Posts: 3,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Feel free to make a prediction on these coins as well if you'd like. Their mugshots have been taken. The jury is in. Just waiting for the decision.
    I like to post predictions before grades are released to keep things transparent and fun.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
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    seatedlib3991seatedlib3991 Posts: 504 ✭✭✭✭

    Looking at the Seated Halves your guesses seem on point.
    The 55-S does not appear cleaned in the picture and seems a solid 35.
    The 78-CC seem very clean and might go VF-25.
    The 1882 seems point on at 20.
    I know very little about proof coins but your estimate sounds right. Very pretty.
    The 1871-CC looks like a G-6 but it seems sometimes the grading services are OVER obsessed with full rims and will downgrade coins.
    The 1871 looks 45.
    I am not sure on the AR 53, might go as a VF-30.
    Just my opinions of course. James

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    BarberianBarberian Posts: 3,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 28, 2024 10:34PM

    @seatedlib3991 said:
    Looking at the Seated Halves your guesses seem on point.
    The 55-S does not appear cleaned in the picture and seems a solid 35.
    The 78-CC seem very clean and might go VF-25.
    The 1882 seems point on at 20.
    I know very little about proof coins but your estimate sounds right. Very pretty.
    The 1871-CC looks like a G-6 but it seems sometimes the grading services are OVER obsessed with full rims and will downgrade coins.
    The 1871 looks 45.
    I am not sure on the AR 53, might go as a VF-30.
    Just my opinions of course. James

    The 55-S has porous surfaces. I'll be shocked if it grades.

    VF25 for the 78-CC would be my wildest dream prediction. Incredible if it comes true, and I think it has a chance considering the condition of other slabbed "Big Three" CC halves. If it straight grades, I'll have to pay a higher grading fee, which will be wonderful!

    That 1888 proof is hard to capture. I look forward to the grades and TrueViews for this coin as I really don't have any experience grading proof SLHs. I don't normally look at proofs. My safe guess is PR62.

    I haven't run into PCGS being tough on rims of SLH yet. 55/54s tend to have obverse rim wear from 7-10K in lower grades up to VF20. Other dates show this pattern as well. I'm fine if they grade it G4, but it's not my expectation. We'll see who's right.

    The key with the AR 53 is how serious the graders view the planchet streak across the breast, neck, and face. I don't think they're going to like it, so my 53 AR and 53-O AR will both be beautiful details coins. I like them and have no desire to replace them.

    All opinions are welcome. It's moved to "QA" now.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
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    coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,769 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I admire the transparency-

    Because we are looking at images and not the coins, its a challenge as to what the most accurate outcome might be on most of these.

    I understand wanting to have the 1895-s graded- seems EF40 is reasonable. But I really think there is more to the coin than what we can image to arrive at a 95% cleaned. This has the look for a raw album collection by date for Morgans. While I agree that EF is an appropriate grade, the image might enhance the coin to make it better than it is based on your commentary. Seems a straight grade should have a greater probability than a mere 5%.

    The 1855-s looks to have VF details- surfaces look to have questions that require an in hand review to sort out cleaning v environmental damage.

    The 1878CC likely has a similar question as the 55-s with a more probable outcome of cleaning or altered surfaces

    The 1882 seems questionable... possible long term storage in a leather pouch. A 20-25 seems fair and handicapping this at 50-50 helps set the expectation- hopefully there won't be a disappointment.

    Passing on the next three- nothing really important to add.

    I like the 1871. Again... it is an image thing. I see a straight grade at EF45 with about a 25% shot at 50.

    The 1853 is a coin flip- I would straight grade the coin and 35 seems fair.

    Best wishes for a satisfactory outcome...

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

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    BarberianBarberian Posts: 3,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have the advantage of knowing how these coins look in hand. I'm just not sure how to interpret what I see except for the spotting and corrosion I see associated with green crystals and fuzzy-looking, black crud. The 1895-S has a somewhat scuffy surface as if it were cleaned with a toothpick as well as light hairlining that doesn't show up in the photo. I hope you're right.

    The 55-S is nice looking piece of burnt toast.

    Here's another photo of the 78-CC. Both the 55-S and 78-CC have a lightly polished look but lack hairlines. I have hope for the 78-CC. I don't for the 55-S. It would require a miracle such as a momentary blinding of the graders or a Junior Mint falling from the sky for that coin to straight grade, IMO.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
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    seatedlib3991seatedlib3991 Posts: 504 ✭✭✭✭

    I doubt coin graders for TPG companys look at it this way but I have always given polished coins a slide. to me it just means a collector from a different era loved it too. James

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    BarberianBarberian Posts: 3,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 29, 2024 6:55PM

    The grades have been released and apparently the order is in the mail. That was fast. The Trueviews haven't been released yet. I'll add them later.

    First, the bad news. The 1855-S and 1878-CC were both graded VF details - cleaned. The 1878-CC is disappointing.

    Now, the good news. Everything else straight graded.

    1895-S Morgan $ - expected XF details "cleaned" - PCGS XF45 - Wow! That will help pay for a 78-CC if I decide to upgrade.
    1882-P - toss-up between VF20 and details - PCGS VF20
    1888-P - F12 / details - PCGS F12 - Good!
    1888-P - PR58-62 - PCGS PR61 - my only proof SLH
    1839-P WD - VF35 - PCGS VF25 - net graded for several hits or pits on the thigh.
    1840-P - XF40 - PCGS XF45
    1840-P - VF30 - PCGS VF30
    1841-O - VF30 - PCGS VF30
    1842 SD LL - VF30 - PCGS VF25
    1849 - XF45 - PCGS XF40
    1853-P A&R - VF35 or details "planchet defect" - PCGS VF35
    1862-S - VF35 - PCGS XF40
    1871-CC - G6 - PCGS G4
    1871-P - XF45 or XF details "questionable color" 50/50 - PCGS XF45

    Summary: Everything straight graded that I hoped or expected would SG except for the 78-CC. The 95-S straight grading was a surprise that helps offset the 78-CC, though others here saw it as likely straight grading. That's 4 undergraded coins, 4 overgraded coins, and 8 coins graded at my grade. Two of the overgrades may be due to my not net grading these coins for minor problems.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
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    BarberianBarberian Posts: 3,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 3, 2024 2:20PM

    @coinkat said:
    I admire the transparency-

    Because we are looking at images and not the coins, its a challenge as to what the most accurate outcome might be on most of these.

    I understand wanting to have the 1895-s graded- seems EF40 is reasonable. But I really think there is more to the coin than what we can image to arrive at a 95% cleaned. This has the look for a raw album collection by date for Morgans. While I agree that EF is an appropriate grade, the image might enhance the coin to make it better than it is based on your commentary. Seems a straight grade should have a greater probability than a mere 5%.

    The 1855-s looks to have VF details- surfaces look to have questions that require an in hand review to sort out cleaning v environmental damage.

    The 1878CC likely has a similar question as the 55-s with a more probable outcome of cleaning or altered surfaces

    The 1882 seems questionable... possible long term storage in a leather pouch. A 20-25 seems fair and handicapping this at 50-50 helps set the expectation- hopefully there won't be a disappointment.

    Passing on the next three- nothing really important to add.

    I like the 1871. Again... it is an image thing. I see a straight grade at EF45 with about a 25% shot at 50.

    The 1853 is a coin flip- I would straight grade the coin and 35 seems fair.

    Best wishes for a satisfactory outcome...

    Looks like you nailed it. The 1895-S graded at XF45. The 1882 passed at VF20, and the 53 A&R graded at VF35. I was happy with both grades as well as the 1888 F12.

    The 55-S and the 78-CC both have some polishing. So does the 82, but to a lesser degree, or more wiping than fine polishing.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
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    coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,769 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Seems that the overall submission outcome was a success... congrats.

    The one take away on thread such is this is simply not to overlook the quality of the fields/surfaces in mid to high circulated grades. The fields/surfaces can reveal so much about the coin.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

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    BarberianBarberian Posts: 3,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coinkat said:
    Seems that the overall submission outcome was a success... congrats.

    The one take away on thread such is this is simply not to overlook the quality of the fields/surfaces in mid to high circulated grades. The fields/surfaces can reveal so much about the coin.

    Thanks. Combine these results with the economy group results where 15 out of 16 straight-graded and I did pretty well. Out of the economy group, 9 graded at the anticipated grade, 5 graded higher than anticipated, and two graded lower (including a details grade for "damaged edge" where the reeding was tapped flat).

    The one disappointment in both groups (74-CC) was offset by the 95-S Morgan straight-grading at XF45. Both were purchased raw at 'details' prices. I always knew the 55-S was burnt toast but had to get it certified.

    I look at surfaces closely but need to calibrate what I see with how the TPGs interpret and grade them.

    The downside - 36 more raw coins were slabbed.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
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    logger7logger7 Posts: 8,077 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All nice coins, you were too hard on them. I agree with PCGS. Congratulations.

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    BarberianBarberian Posts: 3,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 3, 2024 2:46PM

    @coinkat

    @Barberian said:

    @coinkat said:
    I admire the transparency-

    Because we are looking at images and not the coins, its a challenge as to what the most accurate outcome might be on most of these.

    I understand wanting to have the 1895-s graded- seems EF40 is reasonable. But I really think there is more to the coin than what we can image to arrive at a 95% cleaned. This has the look for a raw album collection by date for Morgans. While I agree that EF is an appropriate grade, the image might enhance the coin to make it better than it is based on your commentary. Seems a straight grade should have a greater probability than a mere 5%.

    The 1855-s looks to have VF details- surfaces look to have questions that require an in hand review to sort out cleaning v environmental damage.

    The 1878CC likely has a similar question as the 55-s with a more probable outcome of cleaning or altered surfaces

    The 1882 seems questionable... possible long term storage in a leather pouch. A 20-25 seems fair and handicapping this at 50-50 helps set the expectation- hopefully there won't be a disappointment.

    Passing on the next three- nothing really important to add.

    I like the 1871. Again... it is an image thing. I see a straight grade at EF45 with about a 25% shot at 50.

    The 1853 is a coin flip- I would straight grade the coin and 35 seems fair.

    Best wishes for a satisfactory outcome...

    Looks like you nailed it. The 1895-S graded at XF45. They seem to be more forgiving of wiping and the fine, dark-toned scratches along the rim near the date than I am. The 1882 passed at VF20, and the 53 A&R graded at VF35. I was happy with both grades as well as the 1888 F12.

    The 55-S and the 78-CC both have some polishing. So does the 82, but to a lesser degree, or more wiping than fine polishing.

    Thanks for the careful review. It looks like they did penalize the rims on the 71-CC. It will be one of the more detailed G4s out there now.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
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    coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,769 ✭✭✭✭✭

    good luck with the pending submission

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

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    BarberianBarberian Posts: 3,039 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2024 12:56PM

    I'm beginning to assemble it. There will be several crossovers. I have to decide whether to submit an ANACS F15 73-CC Berlinghof coin for crossover. Maybe I'll just chuck the registry altogether. As someone told me recently, spending money to conform to and compete on a registry takes money away from buying coins.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
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    ty may be just my eyes or ?? but the lower serif of the S on your 1855-s doesnt look right to me

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    BarberianBarberian Posts: 3,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I checked it out and its fine. It does have a bit of corrosion on it. The DM appears to be WB-2 based upon the large MM to the left, and the drapery present below the elbow.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
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    ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,531 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for sharing - one of the challenges I have in grading is the tolerance for hairlines, "off" color, or minor env damage on circulated coins - this gives some great insight!

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    BarberianBarberian Posts: 3,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @logger7 said:
    All nice coins, you were too hard on them. I agree with PCGS. Congratulations.

    Thanks. I'm realizing more and more that the TPGs have greater tolerance for hairlines and lightly corroded surfaces than I do. That's become more apparent to me from correspondence with collectors, TPGs, and from the results of submissions. I was aware of the problems with the details coins so there were really no surprises. There were about a dozen coins (out of 73 submitted so far) with minor issues I had some doubts about, but they have all straight-graded.

    1853 (w/ planchet streak) - graded PCGS VF35

    3 rim nicks away from Good
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    logger7logger7 Posts: 8,077 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As David Hall used to say, on lower graded coins there is a larger tolerance for problems.

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