@Insider3 said: @jmlanzaf replied to @Married2Coins who said: "I've learned that bag marks, scratches, rim files, PMD, etc. cannot change a Mint state coin to an AU. They do lower its value and ranking in the MS grades. A MS-60 can be beat up."
I AGREE 100% with this. I have taught this for several decades.
IMO, this statement as it stands may cause confusion.
@jmlanzaf said: "PMD can lower the grade...PMD, after all, includes circulation damage.
Post Mint damage lowers the grade of MS coins. It has little affect on the circulated grades which are judged by the amount of wear they have. However, PMD lowers the value of a coin and is a significant factor used when Net grading. Net grading will actually knock the grade of a MS copper down to AU!!!!! How stupid id that?
Actual circulation wear is not PMD. I'm sure the poster did not intend for anyone to take his post that way; but I did at first and was compelled to post this.
Doesn’t “circulation” begin as soon as the coin is ejected by the press?
@Insider3 said: @jmlanzaf replied to @Married2Coins who said: "I've learned that bag marks, scratches, rim files, PMD, etc. cannot change a Mint state coin to an AU. They do lower its value and ranking in the MS grades. A MS-60 can be beat up."
I AGREE 100% with this. I have taught this for several decades.
IMO, this statement as it stands may cause confusion.
@jmlanzaf said: "PMD can lower the grade...PMD, after all, includes circulation damage.
Post Mint damage lowers the grade of MS coins. It has little affect on the circulated grades which are judged by the amount of wear they have. However, PMD lowers the value of a coin and is a significant factor used when Net grading. Net grading will actually knock the grade of a MS copper down to AU!!!!! How stupid id that?
Actual circulation wear is not PMD. I'm sure the poster did not intend for anyone to take his post that way; but I did at first and was compelled to post this.
Doesn’t “circulation” begin as soon as the coin is ejected by the press?
Great Question! "Circulation/circulated" is a nebulous word. Folks use it to describe everything under the sun and all of it is correct.
circulate: "to pass from place to place, from person to person, etc."
So yes, technically a coin circulates as soon as it leaves the die chamber and all through the Mint, Fed, bank, and into the hands of the person who spends it and beyond. Even though a coin has circulated it can still remain in Mint State (no trace of wear) for awhile. We call it an Uncirculated coin when we pull it from pocket change and it has remained in Mint State condition. SEE THE PROBLEM? Uncirculated coins for a numismatist remain in Mint State. Circulated coins to a numismatist either circulated or show signs of friction wear, etc. from circulation.
"...if a coin downgrades, the grading company is on the hook for the reduced difference in value.
So over time, countless coins continue to be resubmitted over and over again, until they end up at their their final(?) maxed-out grade.”
Sounds about right. It behooves the collector to forget about the number and focus more on the old fashioned words used to describe a coin. For uncirculated coins those words are basic uncirculated, select uncirculated, choice uncirculated, gem uncirculated, and superb gem uncirculated. Five mint state grades to deal with not 10. The number that is important is the price. Away with the grade numbers say I!
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Comments
Doesn’t “circulation” begin as soon as the coin is ejected by the press?
Great Question! "Circulation/circulated" is a nebulous word. Folks use it to describe everything under the sun and all of it is correct.
circulate: "to pass from place to place, from person to person, etc."
So yes, technically a coin circulates as soon as it leaves the die chamber and all through the Mint, Fed, bank, and into the hands of the person who spends it and beyond. Even though a coin has circulated it can still remain in Mint State (no trace of wear) for awhile. We call it an Uncirculated coin when we pull it from pocket change and it has remained in Mint State condition. SEE THE PROBLEM? Uncirculated coins for a numismatist remain in Mint State. Circulated coins to a numismatist either circulated or show signs of friction wear, etc. from circulation.
"...if a coin downgrades, the grading company is on the hook for the reduced difference in value.
So over time, countless coins continue to be resubmitted over and over again, until they end up at their their final(?) maxed-out grade.”
Sounds about right. It behooves the collector to forget about the number and focus more on the old fashioned words used to describe a coin. For uncirculated coins those words are basic uncirculated, select uncirculated, choice uncirculated, gem uncirculated, and superb gem uncirculated. Five mint state grades to deal with not 10. The number that is important is the price. Away with the grade numbers say I!
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein