Home U.S. Coin Forum
Options

Double Check Your Straight Graded Slabs

OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭✭✭

Double Check Your Straight Graded Slabs for errors, varieties or anomalies. Just because the label indicates a straight graded coin, doesn't mean it is. If the submitter of that coin submitted it with an error or variety and didn't know it or didn't pay for the attribution, that attribution will not be indicated on the label.

Not that it's a big deal or anything major but after looking at some of my straight graded slabs, I noticed this one. You just might find something a little more significant!

Postem' if you gottem'.

Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

Comments

  • Options
    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If the label indicates that the coin received a straight grade, it was indeed, straight-graded. I believe your point was that not all straight graded coins deserved straight grades. Is it your view that the one you posted exhibits cleaning (rather than die polish) lines?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Options
    OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld - Now that I'm thinking of it, I'm not sure what my point was. I guess what I'm trying to say is, coins could have errors or varieties without it being listed on the label.

    For the one I posted, does it exhibit cleaning?.......absolutely not!! I was referring to the lamination. I should have been more clear.

    But your point is well taken. 👍🏻

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • Options
    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OAKSTAR said:
    @MFeld - Now that I'm thinking of it, I'm not sure what my point was. I guess what I'm trying to say is, coins could have errors or varieties without it being listed on the label.

    For the one I posted, does it exhibit cleaning?.......absolutely not!! I was referring to the lamination. I should have been more clear.

    But your point is well taken. 👍🏻

    Thanks and glad to hear it.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Options
    epcepc Posts: 161 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 17, 2024 2:57PM

    I bought this one at HA, slabbed and catalogued at just 1945-S MS67FB, and paid regular S money. Over-graded, perhaps, but still a steal.


    Collector of Liberty Seated Half Dimes, including die pairs and die states

  • Options
    jacrispiesjacrispies Posts: 714 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The other day, I saw an NGC graded trade dollar that had a hidden chopmark and was straight graded! It was missed altogether because NGC always details those.

    Also seen some Superb Gem+ coins with major field hairlines. Would be a 63 or 64 otherwise.

    Always check the coin!

    "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 6:23. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.

  • Options
    alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I believe the OP should have left out "straight" in the tital
    I think what he is saying is to look for coins in holders that might have varieties or anomalies that are not listed on the holder
    Coins that are "stright graded in holders" is a whole different story................. :o

  • Options
    OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @alaura22 said:
    I believe the OP should have left out "straight" in the tital
    I think what he is saying is to look for coins in holders that might have varieties or anomalies that are not listed on the holder
    Coins that are "stright graded in holders" is a whole different story................. :o

    I think you might be right right. What's your definition of a straight graded coin? I always thought it meant problem free.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • Options
    alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @alaura22 said:
    I believe the OP should have left out "straight" in the tital
    I think what he is saying is to look for coins in holders that might have varieties or anomalies that are not listed on the holder
    Coins that are "stright graded in holders" is a whole different story................. :o

    I think you might be right right. What's your definition of a straight graded coin? I always thought it meant problem free.

    Yes, a straight graded coin is a "problem free" coin, no free passes!
    You just want people to look for varieties or anomalies not listed on the slabs

  • Options
    OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @alaura22 said:

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @alaura22 said:
    I believe the OP should have left out "straight" in the tital
    I think what he is saying is to look for coins in holders that might have varieties or anomalies that are not listed on the holder
    Coins that are "stright graded in holders" is a whole different story................. :o

    I think you might be right right. What's your definition of a straight graded coin? I always thought it meant problem free.

    Yes, a straight graded coin is a "problem free" coin, no free passes!
    You just want people to look for varieties or anomalies not listed on the slabs

    Yes, varieties, anomalies or errors not listed on the slabs.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • Options
    RLSnapperRLSnapper Posts: 516 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I enjoy cherry picking Newcomb varieties on Late Date Large Cents. I find an R4 or better 2 or 3 times a year. I even find a Top Pop about once a year.

  • Options
    MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @alaura22 said:
    I believe the OP should have left out "straight" in the tital
    I think what he is saying is to look for coins in holders that might have varieties or anomalies that are not listed on the holder
    Coins that are "stright graded in holders" is a whole different story................. :o

    I think you might be right right. What's your definition of a straight graded coin? I always thought it meant problem free.

    No coin is problem free. Under magnification problems can be found even on 70 graded coins.

  • Options
    OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 17, 2024 7:04PM

    @MWallace said:

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @alaura22 said:
    I believe the OP should have left out "straight" in the tital
    I think what he is saying is to look for coins in holders that might have varieties or anomalies that are not listed on the holder
    Coins that are "stright graded in holders" is a whole different story................. :o

    I think you might be right right. What's your definition of a straight graded coin? I always thought it meant problem free.

    No coin is problem free. Under magnification problems can be found even on 70 graded coins.

    That's true. I guess I'm just talking about a slab that doesn't have damaged, detailed, re-colored, not genuine or scratched written on the label.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • Options
    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @alaura22 said:

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @alaura22 said:
    I believe the OP should have left out "straight" in the tital
    I think what he is saying is to look for coins in holders that might have varieties or anomalies that are not listed on the holder
    Coins that are "stright graded in holders" is a whole different story................. :o

    I think you might be right right. What's your definition of a straight graded coin? I always thought it meant problem free.

    Yes, a straight graded coin is a "problem free" coin, no free passes!
    You just want people to look for varieties or anomalies not listed on the slabs

    A straight grade coin is one which receives a numerical grade, as opposed to a detail grade. Coins receive detail grades when the grading company is of the opinion that they have significant enough problems to preclude straight (numerical) grades.
    Here are examples of problems which can result in detail grades:

    “Filed Rims
    Questionable Color
    Cleaning
    Planchet Flaw
    Altered Surfaces
    Scratches
    Environmental Damage
    Damage”

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Options
    OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld - Could "body bagged" be added to that list?

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • Options
    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OAKSTAR said:
    @MFeld - Could "body bagged" be added to that list?

    No, that term refers to coins which aren’t encapsulated, due to a problem, such as a coin being of questionable or unverifiable authenticity.

    Many years ago, the grading companies didn’t award detail grades. So if the coins had issues of the type I listed, instead of encapsulating them with detail grades, the grading companies returned them in “body bags”.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Options
    rnkmyer1rnkmyer1 Posts: 515 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @asheland: not just a good but a great variety! The S-1 is 4* rated & one of the toughest in the entire IHC series. Good buy!

    “The thrill of the hunt never gets old”

    PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
    Copperindian

    Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
    Copperindian

  • Options
    DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @asheland said:
    One of my best varieties was found after I had bought the coin, I just bought the coin because I liked it, and someone here on these very forums noted the variety, it turned out to be a good variety!

    Before:

    After:

    B)>:)

    I note the difference in the color between the two slabs. The first appeared to be RB and the second is definitely BN; but the picture itself is not attractive to my eye. Does the coin itself appear more RB in hand?

  • Options
    DropdaflagDropdaflag Posts: 773 ✭✭✭✭

    Unattributed 1878 8TF VAM-5 Doubled Motto Top 100 Morgan.

  • Options
    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,681 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @rnkmyer1 said:
    @asheland: not just a good but a great variety! The S-1 is 4* rated & one of the toughest in the entire IHC series. Good buy!

    It’s an interesting variety indeed!

  • Options
    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,681 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DisneyFan said:

    @asheland said:
    One of my best varieties was found after I had bought the coin, I just bought the coin because I liked it, and someone here on these very forums noted the variety, it turned out to be a good variety!

    Before:

    After:

    B)>:)

    I note the difference in the color between the two slabs. The first appeared to be RB and the second is definitely BN; but the picture itself is not attractive to my eye. Does the coin itself appear more RB in hand?

    Technically, it is a brown coin, there is a little bit of freebie red that is showing, but I agree with the brown designation.

    The second picture showing the Eagle eye is cropped from a much much larger picture, and it’s not good at all it was just to document the Coins with their new Eagle eye designations.

    Here is the true view, and it’s pretty accurate:

  • Options
    Insider3Insider3 Posts: 260 ✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    If the label indicates that the coin received a straight grade, it was indeed, straight-graded. I believe your point was that not all straight graded coins deserved straight grades. Is it your view that the one you posted exhibits cleaning (rather than die polish) lines?

    IIMO, the coin should be straight graded. It is not cleaned and the poster shows a tiny de-lamination on the neck, The planchet has streaks from the different alloy combo. The only nit-picking error with that slab is ANA could have added Minor Mint error or Lamination to the label but who cares. The OP has a neat coin.

    The OP's other point is that quite a lot of neat varieties are missed by the TPGS. I find that is becoming less and less common because sharp, young, non-dealer, "coin-heads" are taking over the jobs at TPGS's as people retire.

  • Options
    OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2024 11:45AM

    @Insider3 said:

    @MFeld said:
    If the label indicates that the coin received a straight grade, it was indeed, straight-graded. I believe your point was that not all straight graded coins deserved straight grades. Is it your view that the one you posted exhibits cleaning (rather than die polish) lines?

    The OP's other point is that quite a lot of neat varieties are missed by the TPGS.

    Are they missed by the TPG'ers or are the submitter's not requesting the attribution on the submission form?

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • Options
    DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @asheland said:

    @DisneyFan said:

    @asheland said:
    One of my best varieties was found after I had bought the coin, I just bought the coin because I liked it, and someone here on these very forums noted the variety, it turned out to be a good variety!

    Technically, it is a brown coin, there is a little bit of freebie red that is showing, but I agree with the brown designation.

    The second picture showing the Eagle eye is cropped from a much much larger picture, and it’s not good at all it was just to document the Coins with their new Eagle eye designations.

    Here is the true view, and it’s pretty accurate:

    That is a very nice BN! Thanks for sharing the updated picture.

  • Options
    Insider3Insider3 Posts: 260 ✭✭✭

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @Insider3 said:

    @MFeld said:
    If the label indicates that the coin received a straight grade, it was indeed, straight-graded. I believe your point was that not all straight graded coins deserved straight grades. Is it your view that the one you posted exhibits cleaning (rather than die polish) lines?

    The OP's other point is that quite a lot of neat varieties are missed by the TPGS.

    Are they missed by the TPG'ers or are the submitter's not requesting the attribution on the submission form?

    My personal opinion is this: In the 1980's most were missed by certain TPGS. Additionally, both major services limited the ones they would do. I believe that might still be the case. The second tier services did them all right from the start. IMO, if a collector sends in a DDR Washington quarter that he has no idea even exists, a TPGS should add that to the label whether it was paid for or requested. Think of it this way, if you found a cool naked eye variety (RPM, OMM, RPD,DDO, DDR) unattributed in a slab, what would you think about that company and its graders? Perhaps making submitters ID and pay for this service covers someone's butt. Bottom line, some TPGS cater to "coinheads." I find that a little white sticker listing the variety will indicate something not printed on the slab label - problem solved.

  • Options
    OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider3 said:

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @Insider3 said:

    @MFeld said:
    If the label indicates that the coin received a straight grade, it was indeed, straight-graded. I believe your point was that not all straight graded coins deserved straight grades. Is it your view that the one you posted exhibits cleaning (rather than die polish) lines?

    The OP's other point is that quite a lot of neat varieties are missed by the TPGS.

    Are they missed by the TPG'ers or are the submitter's not requesting the attribution on the submission form?

    My personal opinion is this: In the 1980's most were missed by certain TPGS. Additionally, both major services limited the ones they would do. I believe that might still be the case. The second tier services did them all right from the start. IMO, if a collector sends in a DDR Washington quarter that he has no idea even exists, a TPGS should add that to the label whether it was paid for or requested. Think of it this way, if you found a cool naked eye variety (RPM, OMM, RPD,DDO, DDR) unattributed in a slab, what would you think about that company and its graders? Perhaps making submitters ID and pay for this service covers someone's butt. Bottom line, some TPGS cater to "coinheads." I find that a little white sticker listing the variety will indicate something not printed on the slab label - problem solved.

    Well, in a perfect world?........maybe. The key word you're using here is "should".

    This might be an example of what we're talking about. I bought this coin years ago to break out and put in my mint state Washington Dansco. I considered this coin/slab to be straight graded/problem free. Years later after closer examination, I discovered it was a DDO.

    It's not a big ticket item but it's a good example of what I'm trying to articulate. I don't know the time frames of what the TPG'ers did or didn't do over the years. Just that there "could" be some significant discoveries in these slabs that are not identified.

    I took it out of the album, replaced it with another one. I submitted it to ANACS. The only problem, it came back a grade lower. 😫

    I hope this mess makes sense. 😂 😉

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • Options
    Insider3Insider3 Posts: 260 ✭✭✭

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @Insider3 said:

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @Insider3 said:

    @MFeld said:
    If the label indicates that the coin received a straight grade, it was indeed, straight-graded. I believe your point was that not all straight graded coins deserved straight grades. Is it your view that the one you posted exhibits cleaning (rather than die polish) lines?

    The OP's other point is that quite a lot of neat varieties are missed by the TPGS.

    Are they missed by the TPG'ers or are the submitter's not requesting the attribution on the submission form?

    My personal opinion is this: In the 1980's most were missed by certain TPGS. Additionally, both major services limited the ones they would do. I believe that might still be the case. The second tier services did them all right from the start. IMO, if a collector sends in a DDR Washington quarter that he has no idea even exists, a TPGS should add that to the label whether it was paid for or requested. Think of it this way, if you found a cool naked eye variety (RPM, OMM, RPD,DDO, DDR) unattributed in a slab, what would you think about that company and its graders? Perhaps making submitters ID and pay for this service covers someone's butt. Bottom line, some TPGS cater to "coinheads." I find that a little white sticker listing the variety will indicate something not printed on the slab label - problem solved.

    Well, in a perfect world?........maybe. The key word you're using here is "should".

    This might be an example of what we're talking about. I bought this coin years ago to break out and put in my mint state Washington Dansco. I considered this coin/slab to be straight graded/problem free. Years later after closer examination, I discovered it was a DDO.

    It's not a big ticket item but it's a good example of what I'm trying to articulate. I don't know the time frames of what the TPG'ers did or didn't do over the years. Just that there "could" be some significant discoveries in these slabs that are not identified.

    I took it out of the album, replaced it with another one. I submitted it to ANACS. The only problem, it came back a grade lower. 😫

    I hope this mess makes sense. 😂 😉

    Yes it does. The coin looks like a frosty higher grade in the PCGS slab, while it does not look original in the ANACS holder. Your coin is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Most graders do not look for varieties due to time and lack of knowledge. The ONLY reason I would catch that variety is because I look at 98% of the vintage coins I grade under the scope at 7X using fluorescent light in addition to using a hand lens with a light bulb. If ICG misses any RPM, DDO, DDR, MPD, OMM, or RPD noted on the submission form or not - I'm to blame. I'm the "coinhead" around here.

  • Options
    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,681 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DisneyFan said:

    @asheland said:

    @DisneyFan said:

    @asheland said:
    One of my best varieties was found after I had bought the coin, I just bought the coin because I liked it, and someone here on these very forums noted the variety, it turned out to be a good variety!

    Technically, it is a brown coin, there is a little bit of freebie red that is showing, but I agree with the brown designation.

    The second picture showing the Eagle eye is cropped from a much much larger picture, and it’s not good at all it was just to document the Coins with their new Eagle eye designations.

    Here is the true view, and it’s pretty accurate:

    That is a very nice BN! Thanks for sharing the updated picture.

    Thanks! :)

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file