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1893 S Morgan. Details grade for your opinion and would you consider it for your collection?

VetterVetter Posts: 774 ✭✭✭✭✭

I know many on here would never consider a details grade coin for their collection and I understand that. With that in mind what are you thoughts on this key date Morgan graded as cleaned Good. Is the cleaning that distracting?

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Comments

  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd pass on it. The 93-s is common enough to wait for another one.

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 7,954 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It depends on what you want to spend. I've seen low grade and problem examples pop up in the $2K-$3K range.

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,407 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When you buy a problem coin, you just bought someone else's problem. Why do that?

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,293 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You can't ask us if the cleaning is that bad. Do you think it is that bad? It may not bother me, but you might hate it.

  • JJMJJM Posts: 7,962 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If the price was right and was cracking it out for a album, I might

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  • coastaljerseyguycoastaljerseyguy Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not even close to the worst I've seen, but I'd pass. I'd rather a clean G4 then a netted G6, even if I have to pay a little more. Also the obverse rims from 9:00 to 3:00 almost look like an AG with that scrubbing done, but Liberty doesn't look too bad.

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2024 8:23AM

    As said previously it’s all about the price. If you buy it right it can act as a stepping stone to a better one when it comes along if you know the pricing and get it for what similar examples bring at open auction or less. If you over pay you will take a hit but the thing is that applies to nicer examples too.

    That coin even as is is fairly liquid so figure out the price floor and accept a deal if it makes sense. It is not a bad cleaning in the scheme of things. If the price of better examples is prohibitive this is an excellent strategy to build up. Some of my biggest % wins in the hobby during resale have been on problem coins when bought cheap.

  • originalisbestoriginalisbest Posts: 5,901 ✭✭✭✭

    As crypto says, a problem coin is whatever it is -- but if you can get it at the right price, and can unload it for a better example later at hopefully a profit, you'll be OK. Key being to get it cheap enough.

  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,577 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If your on a budget I understand, but I would pass on any coin with an issue, very hard to get rid of down the road, unless you discount it heavily, being that, this coin actually dosnt look that bad.

  • johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pass

  • ajaanajaan Posts: 17,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes


    DPOTD-3
    'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'

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  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Only if I insisted on filling every hole in a set but I don't buy "hole fillers" even though I don't insist on the higher or highest quality coins for my sets either.

    I can't find a recent sale to match the OP's illustrated coin. The closest I can find is an ANCS AG-3 on eBay which sold for $2499 on January 25th. Heritage also sold a PCGS G-4 for $3120 last September.

    I also infer it's an outlier quality wise vs. the rest of the set. I'd rather do without.

  • ProofCollectionProofCollection Posts: 5,246 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Would you like to buy a Ferrari with a salvage title for the same price of one without a salvage title? No.
    How about a salvage Ferrari with salvage title that runs and drives for a 25% of the cost of one with a clean title? Tempting.

    Typically I would not buy a car with a salvage title. But that doesn't mean that at some price/value I can change my policy on that. That, and of course, my ability to afford a problem-free full-priced car (coin).

  • PillarDollarCollectorPillarDollarCollector Posts: 4,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2024 9:58AM

    If that is what you can afford (not everyone is rich including myself) and want one then yes buy it better to own a rarity and key coin that not.

    But if you afford a numerical grade even a G-04 then wait for that. Save up some more if possible and buy a G-06 or VG-08. Again if that is possible in your financial situation.

    Collecting interests: Mexico & Peru early milled 1 reales + 1796-1891 US dimes

    Sports: NHL & NFL

    Thank you Lord for another beautiful day!!!

  • PillarDollarCollectorPillarDollarCollector Posts: 4,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2024 10:00AM

    Just make sure there is no PVC on the coin. It is common enough to wait for an example without PVC. I am not sure your image has any it is hard to tell.

    Unless you plan to crack it out then if it does have PVC simply do an acetone bath with pure acetone.

    Collecting interests: Mexico & Peru early milled 1 reales + 1796-1891 US dimes

    Sports: NHL & NFL

    Thank you Lord for another beautiful day!!!

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PillarDollarCollector said:

    But if you afford a numerical grade even a G-04 then wait for that. Save up some more if possible and buy a G-06 or VG-08. Again if that is possible in your financial situation.

    If someone is "stretching" to buy this coin as I infer from the OP, there is a big price difference between a G "details" coin and a G-4 or between a G-4 and G-6 or VG.

    Middle ground of buying one now and upgrading to a better one is an option but with noticeable potential "slippage". It's my understanding that common US key date coins (like this one) experienced noticeable proportional price increases a few years ago but that's over for now.

    Since this isn't a difficult coin to find except in the absolute highest grades, I'd save up even if it took longer. I infer anyone with the financial means to complete the series can do that, at some point.

  • PillarDollarCollectorPillarDollarCollector Posts: 4,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2024 10:37AM

    @WCC said:

    @PillarDollarCollector said:

    But if you afford a numerical grade even a G-04 then wait for that. Save up some more if possible and buy a G-06 or VG-08. Again if that is possible in your financial situation.

    If someone is "stretching" to buy this coin as I infer from the OP, there is a big price difference between a G "details" coin and a G-4 or between a G-4 and G-6 or VG.

    Middle ground of buying one now and upgrading to a better one is an option but with noticeable potential "slippage". It's my understanding that common US key date coins (like this one) experienced noticeable proportional price increases a few years ago but that's over for now.

    Since this isn't a difficult coin to find except in the absolute highest grades, I'd save up even if it took longer. I infer anyone with the financial means to complete the series can do that, at some point.

    Agreed buy the best you can for the moment (for key dates and rarities) or if possible save up and buy a better coin. This coin will not go up in value that fast the buyer will have time to save up if he can financially that is. If not then buy and keep the coin you can afford.

    Collecting interests: Mexico & Peru early milled 1 reales + 1796-1891 US dimes

    Sports: NHL & NFL

    Thank you Lord for another beautiful day!!!

  • I have a PCGS G04. I held it next to the picture of your coin. At arms length the quality looks similar. When you look close, you can see the differences because of the cleaning.

    For me, it would all come down to price.

  • LeeBoneLeeBone Posts: 4,263 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2024 1:24PM

    As for adding it to my collection, I would hold off for a more original one. Even with the OP coin shown, which isn't as bad as some of the ones I've seen straight graded, it will still cost a decent chunk of change. If I were putting out this amount of money for one coin, I would make 100% sure that I'd be happy with it and to never question myself ever about my purchase.. JMO

  • TypekatTypekat Posts: 102 ✭✭✭

    Looks okay to me as a lightly cleaned circ coin.
    The question would be, how much are you saving by buying this coin instead of a straight grade G-4 ?

    30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!

  • RobertScotLoverRobertScotLover Posts: 510 ✭✭✭✭

    The obv appears to be harshly cleaned and then artificially toned over to cover the Brillo like hairlines. So that is the problem for me and one which you would inherit too. If that fact doesn't turn you off then go for it assuming a heavily discounted price because when you go to sell the buyer will want the same large net pricing

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2024 1:36PM

    @RobertScotLover said:
    The obv appears to be harshly cleaned and then artificially toned over to cover the Brillo like hairlines. So that is the problem for me and one which you would inherit too. If that fact doesn't turn you off then go for it assuming a heavily discounted price because when you go to sell the buyer will want the same large net pricing

    That’s harsh all around, it looks like slide marks and of the period at that what ever they are, not a Brillo and the toning looks fine.

    Discounts are volatile and different at different markets. Actions vs retail vs wholesale. As the market tries to dynamically correlate the imperfection to the discount, opinions will vary. If you catch right coin with the right problem in the right venue and know your pricing, opportunities will present them self no different than nice coins do with their pricing spectrum.

  • No HeadlightsNo Headlights Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you aren't sure, pass! You will have a problem coin that will be a problem coin when you go to sell it.

  • RobertScotLoverRobertScotLover Posts: 510 ✭✭✭✭

    @Crypto said:

    @RobertScotLover said:
    The obv appears to be harshly cleaned and then artificially toned over to cover the Brillo like hairlines. So that is the problem for me and one which you would inherit too. If that fact doesn't turn you off then go for it assuming a heavily discounted price because when you go to sell the buyer will want the same large net pricing

    That’s harsh all around, it looks like slide marks and of the period at that what ever they are, not a Brillo and the toning looks fine.

    Discounts are volatile and different at different markets. Actions vs retail vs wholesale. As the market tries to dynamically correlate the imperfection to the discount, opinions will vary. If you catch right coin with the right problem in the right venue and know your pricing, opportunities will present them self no different than nice coins do with their pricing spectrum.

    You could very well be right, I tried to blow up the image but I had some difficulty discerning the surfaces clearly off the op's photo.I am very suspect when I see an obviously cleaned and at the same time early toned large silver coin in this money takes all environment that we find ourselves living in

  • cheezhedcheezhed Posts: 5,662 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If it doesn’t bother you and price is right I say buy it.

    Many happy BST transactions
  • hfjacintohfjacinto Posts: 734 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don’t collect Morgan’s but that one actually has pretty good eye appeal. If I did collect Morgan’s I might be interested in this coin if the price is good.

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,443 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2024 6:56PM

    It is a dog coin. It’s unsuitable for inventory. Cleaning marks very obvious. Just start it at 99c on the bay and let her rip. Just think you could put that money in a CACG coin.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • rnkmyer1rnkmyer1 Posts: 313 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would pass. These are available despite the low mintage. Waiting will likely get you a straight graded piece within your budget.

    “The thrill of the hunt never gets old”

    PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
    Copperindian

    Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
    Copperindian

  • RobertScotLoverRobertScotLover Posts: 510 ✭✭✭✭

    If you look at the numbers the 1893-s population is large, but because every Morgan collector needs one and there are a ton of Morgan collectors the price is ridiculously high even though it ain't rare in the least

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 8,833 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, it’s distracting. I don’t buy problem coins, especially, in lower grades.

    “I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~

    My Full Walker Registry Set:

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • coastaljerseyguycoastaljerseyguy Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RobertScotLover said:
    If you look at the numbers the 1893-s population is large, but because every Morgan collector needs one and there are a ton of Morgan collectors the price is ridiculously high even though it ain't rare in the least

    Agree, plus many of the survivors are dogs, the numbers of nice original 93S are smaller then any pop report reflects. One of the highest details net-graded Morgans there is. Agree with others, not the worse & if the price is right, <$2K, might be worth buying since it would have limited downside risk.

  • lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,664 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think the cleaning might be all you see.

    LCoopie = Les
  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,685 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not for me, unless at a ridiculously low price.

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:
    It is a dog coin. It’s unsuitable for inventory. Cleaning marks very obvious. Just start it at 99c on the bay and let her rip. Just think you could put that money in a CACG coin.

    You either didn't read the OP or missed the point entirely.

    The OP didn't claim to own the coin. The OP presumably is asking about this coin because they either can't afford or don't want to spend more for a better 1893-S to complete their Morgan dollar set. The OP didn't give any indication of being a dealer or caring whether it's suitable for inventory.

  • anablepanablep Posts: 5,008 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pass. If I’m going to spend big money on that date, it has to be on my terms for the condition it’s in. Cleaned or details grades don’t cut it for me. I’d rather wait and save more money for that date & mint mark.

    Always looking for attractive rim toned Morgan and Peace dollars in PCGS or (older) ANA/ANACS holders!

    "Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."


    ~Wayne
  • UncleJoeUncleJoe Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭

    For me, this cleaning is distracting and I would pass.

    Joe.

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,665 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No and let me explain why- While it is best to have an 1893-s in a holder just for authentication purposes and resale, there are many slabbed examples to choose from. The 1893-s not as rare as collectors think. And it is the demand that creates the price spread at all grade levels. One must be patient in selecting this date.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WCC said:

    @Cougar1978 said:
    It is a dog coin. It’s unsuitable for inventory. Cleaning marks very obvious. Just start it at 99c on the bay and let her rip. Just think you could put that money in a CACG coin.

    You either didn't read the OP or missed the point entirely.

    The OP didn't claim to own the coin. The OP presumably is asking about this coin because they either can't afford or don't want to spend more for a better 1893-S to complete their Morgan dollar set. The OP didn't give any indication of being a dealer or caring whether it's suitable for inventory.

    Perhaps you don’t understand his posting style yet, but it doesn’t involve reading the OP, or giving advice relevant to the topic at hand.

  • RobertScotLoverRobertScotLover Posts: 510 ✭✭✭✭

    I have ALWAYS found that when I have bought (I don't do this anymore) a problem coin in low grade and with major issues it has never worked out for me and it felt like I was always the last one standing when the music stopped. Now I am patient and will always wait for the right one to come along and pass on the problem ones

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 7,811 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I always felt if you need a second opinion, enough doubt to purchase is probably already in your thoughts. Kind of like asking others to convince you of an already doubtful purchase.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,457 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not for me at any price.........

  • coastaljerseyguycoastaljerseyguy Posts: 1,205 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LeeBone
    That is a very nice F15/VF20 example of an original 93-S. Thanks for sharing.

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