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Fake double-struck error coins on eBay

IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,343 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 8, 2024 1:11AM in U.S. Coin Forum

In the course of researching double-struck errors, I've found a number of fakes appearing recently on eBay.

On genuine double-struck coins, the first strike is weaker, having been flattened or distorted to some degree by the second strike. On the recent batch of fakes, in contrast, the weaker strike is actually the second strike (made with a counterfeit die) and, while weak, is not flattened, since it has not been overstruck.

Another common feature on this group of fakes is that only one side of the coin is double-struck. A genuine one-sided double-strike can occur when a coin is struck twice in collar without rotation, but one of the dies rotates between strikes. This normally occurs on proof coins, however, which (at least during some periods) were struck twice as a matter of routine. It is rare to see this occur on business strikes, so when many such business strike coins are offered in succession by the same seller, it is a red flag.

The fake double-struck coins have fooled consumers, such that some of them have sold recently on eBay for hundreds of dollars. They may at times be marketed as doubled dies, rather than double-struck. Here is one such fake that has already been reported and removed:


It appears that the second (counterfeit) strike was at an oblique angle on this example; consequently, major areas of the design are missing.

Comments

  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,343 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This one sold for $50, BIN:


  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,343 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This one sold for $75, BIN:



  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,343 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This one sold for $75, BIN:



  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,343 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This one sold for $125, BIN:



  • silviosisilviosi Posts: 444 ✭✭✭

    What I see here it is alot of mechanical doubling. So me who I just release this I lost alot and seem I am a dump.

    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE. MARK TWAIN

  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,343 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2024 10:03PM

    @silviosi said:
    So me who I just release this I lost alot and seem I am a dump.

    If you say so...

  • Thanks for the post. Would you be able to post some pictures of legitimate doubling? I’m pretty new to this so I’m trying to learn the difference. I could see that some of those angles just didn’t look right in a couple of your examples. And some seemed too perfectly detailed. Lol.

  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,343 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2024 11:55PM

    @Mulholb1 said:
    Thanks for the post. Would you be able to post some pictures of legitimate doubling? I’m pretty new to this so I’m trying to learn the difference. I could see that some of those angles just didn’t look right in a couple of your examples. And some seemed too perfectly detailed. Lol.

    Search for "double struck in collar" on Google and the major auction websites and you'll find many examples. Some will be flipover double-struck, like this one:

    https://coins.ha.com/itm/errors/1997-1c-lincoln-cent-flipover-double-struck-in-collar-ms66-red-pcgs/a/60280-93121.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515


  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A double struck coin will have the details of the first strike flattened down.

  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,343 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:
    A double struck coin will have the details of the first strike flattened down.

    Exactly. On the fakes that I posted, the details on the second strikes are weak, but not flattened. The second strikes were also too weak to flatten out the details from the first (genuine) strikes.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 8,967 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @IkesT
    Great Info. Had not considered the result of a double strike in that manner before.
    Thanks,
    jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • tincuptincup Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 8, 2024 8:17AM

    IkesT, I have no doubt these are fakes. But how exactly are they being produced? In other words, how is the slightly raised (but not flattened ) date and letters produced, with out damaging other portions of the coin? Is it a totally fake obverse die? or partial die?

    ----- kj
  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm assuming it's a fake die (pair of dies) with the doubling on the die.

  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,343 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tincup said:
    IkesT, I have no doubt these are fakes. But how exactly are they being produced? In other words, how is the slightly raised (but not flattened ) date and letters produced, with out damaging other portions of the coin? Is it a totally fake obverse die? or partial die?

    I believe genuine coins are overstruck with a complete counterfeit obverse die. If you look very carefully, you can find some slight damage and flattening to the original coin by the second strike. For example, the original "03" in the date shows flattening on the 2003 cent, and there is relatively strong evidence of overstriking (for these fakes) on Lincoln's bust - you can see doubling on Lincoln's nose and the truncation of the bust (toward the right end).

  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,343 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tincup On some of the others, where it's hard to see any evidence of flattening or damage on the original (genuine) designs, it may be because the coin is struck one or more times with the counterfeit die at an oblique angle in order to hit the fields of the coin but avoid the designs.

  • renomedphysrenomedphys Posts: 3,468 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If I may... just picked this real one up last week. The first strike weakness is plain.

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,878 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Genuine 1971-D Kennedy Half Dollar, with superimposed image of an Eisenhower Dollar on the obverse. Note the "S" mint mark from the IKE $ near the rim between the "9" and "7" in the date.


  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,655 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @IkesT said:
    @tincup On some of the others, where it's hard to see any evidence of flattening or damage on the original (genuine) designs, it may be because the coin is struck one or more times with the counterfeit die at an oblique angle in order to hit the fields of the coin but avoid the designs.

    no way to strike just a date and not flatten the original - that entire coin is made with 1 fake die

  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,343 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2024 3:22AM

    .

  • tincuptincup Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭✭✭

    dcarr, is the Kennedy Half you posted an experiment that you did yourself to demonstrate the type of "error"? Or is it an actual error coin that is out there?

    ----- kj
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,878 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tincup said:
    dcarr, is the Kennedy Half you posted an experiment that you did yourself to demonstrate the type of "error"? Or is it an actual error coin that is out there?

    .

    An experiment I did (not to sell, and not to disclose how).

    .

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,473 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:
    Genuine 1971-D Kennedy Half Dollar, with superimposed image of an Eisenhower Dollar on the obverse. Note the "S" mint mark from the IKE $ near the rim between the "9" and "7" in the date.


    Sneaky!!
    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), [email protected]
  • silviosisilviosi Posts: 444 ✭✭✭

    Interesting, I will like to have one for study in my lab.

    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE. MARK TWAIN

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