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Cracked Gold Coin Planchet (How would PCGS determine if pre- or post mint).

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  • The following photos show a 1846 Mexican 1 Escudo gold coin with cracks. I have read earlier posts (dating back years) with opinions, however I did not find answers to my questions. If they were answered earlier, my apologies, I did not find them.

    My questions are:

    1) If this planchet was intact and then struck, after which due to metallurgical issues with the gold being expanded which caused the immediate creation of the cracks, how would PCGS define this? Is it Pre- or Post- Mint damage? How could they determine this?

    2) Is this PCGS Gradable?

    3) Is there a increase in value with this coin in it's current condition?

    Thank you in advance. I cross posted this same question on another forum.

  • TypekatTypekat Posts: 112 ✭✭✭

    I’d guess that a flaw in the planchet was there before the coin was struck. Unless there are problems not visible in the photo, it should straight grade (perhaps with a mention of the planchet flaw)

    It’s hard imagine how that could be be post-mint damage.

    30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,681 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I suspect you would get answers on the World coin forum- I see it as "as struck" but I am unable to guaranty that it will straight grade but I do not see this as post mint damage.

    Interesting coin- I like it for what it is

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • Insider3Insider3 Posts: 166 ✭✭✭

    Easy. Now look at the coin and answer your question. I'll help after you respond first. ;)

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'll let you handle this, Skip.
    Just let me reassure the OP: Not Damage.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • RexfordRexford Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2024 3:06PM

    If submitted under the Mint Error service it should receive a straight grade. I do not see it as something that would cause an increase in value for this type though.

  • 2windy2fish2windy2fish Posts: 780 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have seen this a time or 2 on early US coins, i am fairly certain it is as struck.
    But i am curious what the cause is, simply poorly mixed metal?
    And yes i agree straight grade with a notation, and super cool!

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It IS a genuine cracked planchet and is worth MORE than one that is not.

    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • Insider3Insider3 Posts: 166 ✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    I'll let you handle this, Skip.
    Just let me reassure the OP: Not Damage.

    Your help is needed also. Anyway, I scared off the OP. I'm out of here. ;)

  • emeraldATVemeraldATV Posts: 3,929 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The first photo seems to have twin damage. One you cant miss another very faint to the east of the first said.
    If true, It's something that can not be over looked.
    Mint.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As a collectable error coin this is a piece that should NOT be slabbed. It should be held in the hand and looked at with a glass to appreciate the texture of the cracks. You can’t see it properly in plastic.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Byers said:
    It IS a genuine cracked planchet and is worth MORE than one that is not.

    I agree with this. I bought the following coin and there was another same coin, same grade but not mint error. I paid double the price than the one is not cracked.

  • silviosisilviosi Posts: 444 ✭✭✭

    Basic the gold at 800 and plus do not crack due to metalic age. IMHO this coin crack on the strike. This it is happened if the planchet was improperly annealed.

    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE. MARK TWAIN

  • RexfordRexford Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jt88 said:

    @Byers said:
    It IS a genuine cracked planchet and is worth MORE than one that is not.

    I agree with this. I bought the following coin and there was another same coin, same grade but not mint error. I paid double the price than the one is not cracked.

    A cracked planchet Republic of China coin would appeal to an entirely different and much stronger market, and there is a higher typical quality of production for that type, so a significant premium would be expected. Many collectors would see this the planchet issue on this coin as a negative.

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Rexford, yes. you are correct.

  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,652 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For most World Coin collectors, this is a negative, even though it is a crack and not done outside the mint. If it was a U.S. coin, it would bring a premium.

    thefinn
  • RobertScotLoverRobertScotLover Posts: 518 ✭✭✭✭

    I am comforted knowing that a few of the noted experts here appreciate cracked classics, I happen to own a few and have had negative to neutral commentary showing little to know appreciation for them whereas I think that they are so freakin cool. Good to know that I was correct in deciding to acquire them over the years. Thank you

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thefinn said:
    For most World Coin collectors, this is a negative, even though it is a crack and not done outside the mint. If it was a U.S. coin, it would bring a premium.

    I think most world coin collectors will change over the years. They will pay premium for it. It will take time and education. World coin mint error will follow the lead from US mint error coin.

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In fact, maybe the time had already come. I have to pay double price is the evidence that one needed to pay premium price in order to get it.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,209 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @silviosi said:
    Basic the gold at 800 and plus do not crack due to metalic age. IMHO this coin crack on the strike. This it is happened if the planchet was improperly annealed.

    Agree. The crack occurred at the time the coin was struck. The planchet was brittle from improper annealing resulting in it cracking while being struck. You frequently see cracks like this on ancient coins which were struck on heated planchets where the metal being struck cooled too much before being struck resulting in a harder and more brittle planchet resulting in it cracking.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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