Ok, so who bought it
Torey
Posts: 201 ✭✭✭✭
- I waited to post this- The buyer received it and left feedback already.
I was browsing eBay and saw this coin pop up. I instantly went to check out and someone was quicker. Anyone here pick it up? 
Congrats if it was you.
4
Comments
Wow. I'd imagine that there is a decent chance that it also might be a mechanical error in the labeling of the coin.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
@TomB Definitely could be! Might help me sleep better tonight
That would be quite the rip if it is truly a 1945 full bands from Philly
And im assuming it is if feedback was left, and the buyer is happy.
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
The cert. # checks out as legit on NGC. What a score! Desert Mountain Coins.....might have to check out their other offerings...fair pricing.
Someone has earned a "You Suck " award if the coin is as described.
That's like hitting a jackpot.
Look at the holder its in too.
It's some kind of joke. There's no way someone sold that coin for $75.
I don't think it's real. Someone who's a coin dealer let that go that cheap.
That's an upwards of $20K or more coin. Possibly a higher grade in that holder.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
A CAC Gold sticker would really look nice on that holder!
Wowzer, what a score!!
Not that it's any of my business, but I think it would be the right thing for the buyer to inform the seller that they made a huge mistake listing this coin at $75. I like a score as much as the next collector but this is like paying face value for a double eagle and I wouldn't feel right following through with that purchase.
I've made a few good scores but they all required some risk and work.
Collector, occasional seller
I'd agree if the seller was not a coin dealer who decided to list it w/o checking values. They may have made a 100% profit on the $75 sale.
That is almost as good as the guy who pulled a 1792 half disme out of the junk box.
Hmmmm….says the seller does NOT accept returns….. 🤔😬
Treasures can still be had for a small percentage of their worth. This one is unbelievable, though.
I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if it’s a “mechanical error”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If the buyer wants to provide additional consideration to the seller then (in the event the buyer is going to resell the coin and cash out) I would determine what additional consideration he/she wants to give the seller (i.e. 10%- 20% of the seller's profit). I would then sell the coin and once I had the sales proceeds in hand I would contact the seller and forward the additional consideration to the seller.
Done deal.
No muss, no fuss and hopefully a thank you note from the appreciative seller.
If the buyer intends to hold the coin long term, the amount of additional consideration to the seller and the mechanics of providing it to the seller may become a little more complicated.
Sometimes good fortune smiles upon someone. That is not a bad thing.
However some people are uncomfortable with receiving good fortune (even after having been on the receiving end of bad fortune). If so, assuage your discomfort in whatever manner works for you.
As for the seller who sold this valuable dime for $75.00, that person may or may not be deserving of additional consideration.
I just visited Tucson a couple weeks ago for the coin show. Sure wish I would have stopped at this store to browse.
Tim
Where are you finding a dollar amount for that coin around 20k?
Okay, did a little searching and seems they do sell for a premium.
I guess I better start looking at my dimes or looking at my dimes closer.
Educate me, why wouldn't the sellers 1944 S Mercury Dime PCGS MS65FB Full Bands in Old Green Rattler Holder sell for the same?
that there just isn't as many 1945 Philly's with full bands.
I'm assuming and we know what happens when I do
There were 100 million more 1945 dimes minted than the 1944-S yet the FB population grade 65 and higher outnumbers the 1945 by a total of 3,756 to 64.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
The 1945-P Full bands is to Merc Dimes as the 1953-S full bell lines is to Franklin Halves... That is- they are almost never found fully struck and sell for large sums when they are.
Collector, occasional seller
Sometimes going back to the seller and giving extra money creates more trouble. They feel animosity towards the buyer or think the amount is not enough.
A different path could be to buy more coins from them (even if the coins are priced high) that add up to how much money you would have given. That way they make more sales and are happy to move product (without the need for a potential awkward situation to arise about the one cherry-pick).
If there is a better photo of the reverse we can try and determine if the bands are indeed fully split
When I wrote mechanical error I wasn't just thinking FB vs. non-FB, but also thinking that the coin might have been a 1945-D or 1945-S. These types of errors happen with some frequency. As an example, I sent a Roosevelt dime (maybe 1950-S) to PCGS perhaps two decades ago that they graded MS67, but labeled it as a Capped Bust half with a date in the 1820s on it. I should have kept it as-is, but notified them of the error.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
When I wrote "mechanical error", I was thinking FB vs. non-FB.
Many years ago, I won such a coin (in a PCGS holder) on eBay. The seller wouldn't accept a return, even though with some investigating, I'd learned that he knew it was a mechanical error and was supposed to return it to PCGS, but didn't.
I don't recall for certain whether he was the original submitter of the coin, but I think he might have been. After some initial pushback, PCGS had me send the coin to them and made me whole.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Tom, I took a look at the photos and am pretty certain it’s a 1945. Whether or not the bands are split remains to be seen.
Coin Photographer.
Well, if that seller is on here, you've pretty much assured the buyer won't be getting the coin, OP. So good job.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
If you read the first part, I quoted that I waited to post this until feedback was left by the buyer.
In that case, carry on... It got bulleted and I completely overlooked it, my bad.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
I commend Torey for waiting until the auctioned item was received by the buyer so as not to dash the buyers chances from educating the seller. I don't collect mercy but would make an exception with this piece
Wowwwwwwwwwww! I'll be watching for that to pop up on some dealer's website with a five-figure price on it...
New website: Groovycoins.com Capped Bust Half Dime registry set: Bikergeek CBHD LM Set
You won't see it, it's probably going to end up in a 66FB holder. Mercs were very tightly graded by NGC back then.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Interesting question, is this a case of an old holder holding the value back?
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
No, this is a case of a seller not doing his homework. This was a buy it now, not an auction.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
For grins, what feedback did the buyer leave? Hope it was five stars…..😉
But do you crack it out, risking losing the FB designation (which holds 99% of the value of this common date?)
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Obviously I get that, I’m talking about the next seller assuming it’s up to modern standard as it isn’t coin that is easily crossed or cheap to do so.
Which is worth more?
Old NGC 65 new PCGS 65
Old NGC CAC vs new PCGS 65 cac
Old NGC cac vs new PCGS 66
Old NGC cac vs new PCGS 66 cac
Old NGC gold cac vs new PCGS 66 cac
My question really was if the ambiguity of old standards and no sticker would take considerable money off the table if sold at FB levels making the old holder a serious negative. While in it right for sure, the new owner has some work and cost to do to maximize it considering crack out is clearly not an option even if it is truly all there.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
And still we wait for the buyer to chime in and claim their "You Suck" award...
New website: Groovycoins.com Capped Bust Half Dime registry set: Bikergeek CBHD LM Set
That depends on how FB it is. These guys will crack anything. Cost basis $80 with your upside at $20k+? This things gonna get cracked and cracked and cracked until it gets the grade they want.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
I'll ask again, do you risk losing that designation by cracking instead of crossing?
I wouldn't. Because with my luck it would come back MS66 "plain."
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
You and me both. The play with this particular coin, if it were me, would be CAC then Recon. But it unfortunately wasn't me that bought it.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Simply no way in the world it gets cracked, 45fb is not a by accident grade at this point. And a probable five figure downgrade even if it is house money is a stupid chance. Crossover would be expensive though and still unlikely
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Wonder if the seller knows by now what a mistake he made
It might not be a “by accident grade” but it might be a “by accident FB designation”.
As I posted earlier (copied below), PCGS did that at least once, and if they could do it, so could NGC.
“When I wrote "mechanical error", I was thinking FB vs. non-FB.
Many years ago, I won such a coin (in a PCGS holder) on eBay. The seller wouldn't accept a return, even though with some investigating, I'd learned that he knew it was a mechanical error and was supposed to return it to PCGS, but didn't.
I don't recall for certain whether he was the original submitter of the coin, but I think he might have been. After some initial pushback, PCGS had me send the coin to them and made me whole.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If you are thinking mechanical error shouldn’t this coin be returned by the buyer to NGC to be verified instead of being put potentially in a auction sale?
@MFeld and I have both been thinking and posting it might very well be a mechanical error throughout the thread. Should it be returned by the buyer? I'm certain the TOS with both companies tells the submitter to return any mechanical error, but after 30+ years of that coin in that holder I would doubt highly anyone would do it.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I get that and figured the same when I saw it as it would have been in coveted channels by now after 30 years of transactions. While it is possible the dealer who made it originally sold it to a collector before the Pop reports matured who then held it until present and passed on leaving a bulk collection where it went unnoticed. Probability states that it has had dozens of transactions and nobody had the heart to crack it but know what it isn't. I get all that and I meant to say a properly attributed 45p FB isn't an accidental grade given out lightly.
I just thought the conversation topic was more interesting assuming it to be real than assuming it was a mistake. It would be a rare scenario where a classic slab holds back value and the unusual complexity of a dealer maximizing a coin such as that to be aligned with market preferences in presentation. Not unusual in what would need to be done but unusual in the risk and costs vs downside. the price spread between FB and not is crazy for basically the same coin. A complete set of gem Mercs non-FB look exacatly the same as a Gem FB set in a whitman. I understand the market creating rarity thus desirability for otherwise common things, I just don't get collectors falling for it time and time again across many genres.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
@Walkerlover asked:
If you are thinking mechanical error shouldn’t this coin be returned by the buyer to NGC to be verified instead of being put potentially in a auction sale?
My reply:
I think that would be the right thing to do. And that some buyers would do so, but others wouldn’t. I also believe that in the event there’s an obvious “mechanical error” of that nature, an auction house should decline to auction it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Thanks for the clarification. And I agree that it’s a more interesting conversation under the premise that no mistake was involved.
I’m not assuming it’s a mechanical error, though I figure it’s a decent possibility.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If you notice the other coins offered by the Ebay seller many were Mercury dime rattlers....all FB. My guess is the seller picked up this group on the cheap from the family of a deceased collector.....marked them up to double his money on a quick flip. To be honest I had no idea this 1945 FB was a 20K coin and probably would have made the same mistake this dealer made. That's why I am a collector not a dealer.
BTW....his phone number is in his listing....I might give him a call to see if he has another one hanging around that he hasn't gotten a chance to list yet.
Keep an eye out for it in the near future. Maybe there'll be better pictures. If it shows up on eBay, chances are it'll be with lousy pictures that hide the mechanical error. If it shows up on a reputable auction site, the pictures will tell the full story.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution