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Ok, so who bought it

  • I waited to post this- The buyer received it and left feedback already.

I was browsing eBay and saw this coin pop up. I instantly went to check out and someone was quicker. Anyone here pick it up? ;)
Congrats if it was you.



Comments

  • TomBTomB Posts: 20,613 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow. I'd imagine that there is a decent chance that it also might be a mechanical error in the labeling of the coin.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • ToreyTorey Posts: 116 ✭✭✭

    @TomB Definitely could be! Might help me sleep better tonight :D

  • DCWDCW Posts: 6,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That would be quite the rip if it is truly a 1945 full bands from Philly
    And im assuming it is if feedback was left, and the buyer is happy.

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • RLSnapperRLSnapper Posts: 494 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The cert. # checks out as legit on NGC. What a score! Desert Mountain Coins.....might have to check out their other offerings...fair pricing. :o

  • TiborTibor Posts: 3,149 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Someone has earned a "You Suck " award if the coin is as described.

  • Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 722 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2024 3:59AM

    That's like hitting a jackpot.
    Look at the holder its in too.
    It's some kind of joke. There's no way someone sold that coin for $75.
    I don't think it's real. Someone who's a coin dealer let that go that cheap.
    That's an upwards of $20K or more coin. Possibly a higher grade in that holder.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,770 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A CAC Gold sticker would really look nice on that holder!

  • CrackoutCrackout Posts: 1,360 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wowzer, what a score!!

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,282 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not that it's any of my business, but I think it would be the right thing for the buyer to inform the seller that they made a huge mistake listing this coin at $75. I like a score as much as the next collector but this is like paying face value for a double eagle and I wouldn't feel right following through with that purchase.
    I've made a few good scores but they all required some risk and work.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,770 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ChrisH821 said:
    Not that it's any of my business, but I think it would be the right thing for the buyer to inform the seller that they made a huge mistake listing this coin at $75. I like a score as much as the next collector but this is like paying face value for a double eagle and I wouldn't feel right following through with that purchase.
    I've made a few good scores but they all required some risk and work.

    I'd agree if the seller was not a coin dealer who decided to list it w/o checking values. They may have made a 100% profit on the $75 sale.

  • fathomfathom Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is almost as good as the guy who pulled a 1792 half disme out of the junk box.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,760 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Treasures can still be had for a small percentage of their worth. This one is unbelievable, though.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,736 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if it’s a “mechanical error”.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 11,604 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If the buyer wants to provide additional consideration to the seller then (in the event the buyer is going to resell the coin and cash out) I would determine what additional consideration he/she wants to give the seller (i.e. 10%- 20% of the seller's profit). I would then sell the coin and once I had the sales proceeds in hand I would contact the seller and forward the additional consideration to the seller.

    Done deal.

    No muss, no fuss and hopefully a thank you note from the appreciative seller.

    If the buyer intends to hold the coin long term, the amount of additional consideration to the seller and the mechanics of providing it to the seller may become a little more complicated.

    Sometimes good fortune smiles upon someone. That is not a bad thing.

    However some people are uncomfortable with receiving good fortune (even after having been on the receiving end of bad fortune). If so, assuage your discomfort in whatever manner works for you.

    As for the seller who sold this valuable dime for $75.00, that person may or may not be deserving of additional consideration.

  • pointfivezeropointfivezero Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I just visited Tucson a couple weeks ago for the coin show. Sure wish I would have stopped at this store to browse.

    Tim

  • rte592rte592 Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2024 5:19PM

    @Morgan13 said:
    That's like hitting a jackpot.
    Look at the holder its in too.
    It's some kind of joke. There's no way someone sold that coin for $75.
    I don't think it's real. Someone who's a coin dealer let that go that cheap.
    That's an upwards of $20K or more coin. Possibly a higher grade in that holder.

    Where are you finding a dollar amount for that coin around 20k?

    Okay, did a little searching and seems they do sell for a premium.
    I guess I better start looking at my dimes or looking at my dimes closer.

    Educate me, why wouldn't the sellers 1944 S Mercury Dime PCGS MS65FB Full Bands in Old Green Rattler Holder sell for the same?
    I'm assuming and we know what happens when I do :D that there just isn't as many 1945 Philly's with full bands.

  • robecrobec Posts: 6,541 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @rte592 said:

    @Morgan13 said:
    That's like hitting a jackpot.
    Look at the holder its in too.
    It's some kind of joke. There's no way someone sold that coin for $75.
    I don't think it's real. Someone who's a coin dealer let that go that cheap.
    That's an upwards of $20K or more coin. Possibly a higher grade in that holder.

    Where are you finding a dollar amount for that coin around 20k?

    Okay, did a little searching and seems they do sell for a premium.
    I guess I better start looking at my dimes or looking at my dimes closer.

    Educate me, why wouldn't the sellers 1944 S Mercury Dime PCGS MS65FB Full Bands in Old Green Rattler Holder sell for the same?
    I'm assuming and we know what happens when I do :D that there just isn't as many 1945 Philly's with full bands.

    There were 100 million more 1945 dimes minted than the 1944-S yet the FB population grade 65 and higher outnumbers the 1945 by a total of 3,756 to 64.

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,282 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @rte592 said:

    @Morgan13 said:
    That's like hitting a jackpot.
    Look at the holder its in too.
    It's some kind of joke. There's no way someone sold that coin for $75.
    I don't think it's real. Someone who's a coin dealer let that go that cheap.
    That's an upwards of $20K or more coin. Possibly a higher grade in that holder.

    Where are you finding a dollar amount for that coin around 20k?

    Okay, did a little searching and seems they do sell for a premium.
    I guess I better start looking at my dimes or looking at my dimes closer.

    Educate me, why wouldn't the sellers 1944 S Mercury Dime PCGS MS65FB Full Bands in Old Green Rattler Holder sell for the same?
    I'm assuming and we know what happens when I do :D that there just isn't as many 1945 Philly's with full bands.

    The 1945-P Full bands is to Merc Dimes as the 1953-S full bell lines is to Franklin Halves... That is- they are almost never found fully struck and sell for large sums when they are.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 663 ✭✭✭✭

    @TomB said:
    Wow. I'd imagine that there is a decent chance that it also might be a mechanical error in the labeling of the coin.

    If there is a better photo of the reverse we can try and determine if the bands are indeed fully split

  • TomBTomB Posts: 20,613 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerlover said:

    @TomB said:
    Wow. I'd imagine that there is a decent chance that it also might be a mechanical error in the labeling of the coin.

    If there is a better photo of the reverse we can try and determine if the bands are indeed fully split

    When I wrote mechanical error I wasn't just thinking FB vs. non-FB, but also thinking that the coin might have been a 1945-D or 1945-S. These types of errors happen with some frequency. As an example, I sent a Roosevelt dime (maybe 1950-S) to PCGS perhaps two decades ago that they graded MS67, but labeled it as a Capped Bust half with a date in the 1820s on it. I should have kept it as-is, but notified them of the error.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,736 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2024 3:50AM

    @TomB said:

    @Walkerlover said:

    @TomB said:
    Wow. I'd imagine that there is a decent chance that it also might be a mechanical error in the labeling of the coin.

    If there is a better photo of the reverse we can try and determine if the bands are indeed fully split

    When I wrote mechanical error I wasn't just thinking FB vs. non-FB, but also thinking that the coin might have been a 1945-D or 1945-S. These types of errors happen with some frequency. As an example, I sent a Roosevelt dime (maybe 1950-S) to PCGS perhaps two decades ago that they graded MS67, but labeled it as a Capped Bust half with a date in the 1820s on it. I should have kept it as-is, but notified them of the error.

    When I wrote "mechanical error", I was thinking FB vs. non-FB.
    Many years ago, I won such a coin (in a PCGS holder) on eBay. The seller wouldn't accept a return, even though with some investigating, I'd learned that he knew it was a mechanical error and was supposed to return it to PCGS, but didn't.

    I don't recall for certain whether he was the original submitter of the coin, but I think he might have been. After some initial pushback, PCGS had me send the coin to them and made me whole.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TomB said:

    @Walkerlover said:

    @TomB said:
    Wow. I'd imagine that there is a decent chance that it also might be a mechanical error in the labeling of the coin.

    If there is a better photo of the reverse we can try and determine if the bands are indeed fully split

    When I wrote mechanical error I wasn't just thinking FB vs. non-FB, but also thinking that the coin might have been a 1945-D or 1945-S. These types of errors happen with some frequency. As an example, I sent a Roosevelt dime (maybe 1950-S) to PCGS perhaps two decades ago that they graded MS67, but labeled it as a Capped Bust half with a date in the 1820s on it. I should have kept it as-is, but notified them of the error.

    Tom, I took a look at the photos and am pretty certain it’s a 1945. Whether or not the bands are split remains to be seen.

  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2024 6:15AM

    Well, if that seller is on here, you've pretty much assured the buyer won't be getting the coin, OP. So good job.

    Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Torey said:

    @DelawareDoons said:
    Well, if that seller is on here, you've pretty much assured the buyer won't be getting the coin, OP. So good job.

    If you read the first part, I quoted that I waited to post this until feedback was left by the buyer.

    In that case, carry on... It got bulleted and I completely overlooked it, my bad.

    Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • RobertScotLoverRobertScotLover Posts: 515 ✭✭✭✭

    I commend Torey for waiting until the auctioned item was received by the buyer so as not to dash the buyers chances from educating the seller. I don't collect mercy but would make an exception with this piece

  • BikergeekBikergeek Posts: 179 ✭✭✭✭

    Wowwwwwwwwwww! I'll be watching for that to pop up on some dealer's website with a five-figure price on it...

    New website: Groovycoins.com Capped Bust Half Dime registry set: Bikergeek CBHD LM Set

  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Bikergeek said:
    Wowwwwwwwwwww! I'll be watching for that to pop up on some dealer's website with a five-figure price on it...

    You won't see it, it's probably going to end up in a 66FB holder. Mercs were very tightly graded by NGC back then.

    Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,346 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Bikergeek said:
    Wowwwwwwwwwww! I'll be watching for that to pop up on some dealer's website with a five-figure price on it...

    You won't see it, it's probably going to end up in a 66FB holder. Mercs were very tightly graded by NGC back then.

    Interesting question, is this a case of an old holder holding the value back?

  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Crypto said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Bikergeek said:
    Wowwwwwwwwwww! I'll be watching for that to pop up on some dealer's website with a five-figure price on it...

    You won't see it, it's probably going to end up in a 66FB holder. Mercs were very tightly graded by NGC back then.

    Interesting question, is this a case of an old holder holding the value back?

    No, this is a case of a seller not doing his homework. This was a buy it now, not an auction.

    Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • knovak1976knovak1976 Posts: 205 ✭✭✭

    For grins, what feedback did the buyer leave? Hope it was five stars…..😉

  • DCWDCW Posts: 6,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    But do you crack it out, risking losing the FB designation (which holds 99% of the value of this common date?)

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,346 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2024 7:57AM

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Crypto said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Bikergeek said:
    Wowwwwwwwwwww! I'll be watching for that to pop up on some dealer's website with a five-figure price on it...

    You won't see it, it's probably going to end up in a 66FB holder. Mercs were very tightly graded by NGC back then.

    Interesting question, is this a case of an old holder holding the value back?

    No, this is a case of a seller not doing his homework. This was a buy it now, not an auction.

    Obviously I get that, I’m talking about the next seller assuming it’s up to modern standard as it isn’t coin that is easily crossed or cheap to do so.

    Which is worth more?

    Old NGC 65 new PCGS 65
    Old NGC CAC vs new PCGS 65 cac
    Old NGC cac vs new PCGS 66
    Old NGC cac vs new PCGS 66 cac
    Old NGC gold cac vs new PCGS 66 cac

    My question really was if the ambiguity of old standards and no sticker would take considerable money off the table if sold at FB levels making the old holder a serious negative. While in it right for sure, the new owner has some work and cost to do to maximize it considering crack out is clearly not an option even if it is truly all there.

  • BikergeekBikergeek Posts: 179 ✭✭✭✭

    And still we wait for the buyer to chime in and claim their "You Suck" award... :wink:

    New website: Groovycoins.com Capped Bust Half Dime registry set: Bikergeek CBHD LM Set

  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Crypto said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Crypto said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Bikergeek said:
    Wowwwwwwwwwww! I'll be watching for that to pop up on some dealer's website with a five-figure price on it...

    You won't see it, it's probably going to end up in a 66FB holder. Mercs were very tightly graded by NGC back then.

    Interesting question, is this a case of an old holder holding the value back?

    No, this is a case of a seller not doing his homework. This was a buy it now, not an auction.

    Obviously I get that, I’m talking about the next seller assuming it’s up to modern standard as it isn’t coin that is easily crossed or cheap to do so.

    Which is worth more?

    Old NGC 65 new PCGS 65
    Old NGC CAC vs new PCGS 65 cac
    Old NGC cac vs new PCGS 66
    Old NGC cac vs new PCGS 66 cac
    Old NGC gold cac vs new PCGS 66 cac

    My question really was if the ambiguity of old standards and no sticker would take considerable money off the table if sold at FB levels making the old holder a serious negative. While in it right for sure, the new owner has some work and cost to do to maximize it considering crack out is clearly not an option even if it is truly all there.

    That depends on how FB it is. These guys will crack anything. Cost basis $80 with your upside at $20k+? This things gonna get cracked and cracked and cracked until it gets the grade they want.

    Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • DCWDCW Posts: 6,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Crypto said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Crypto said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Bikergeek said:
    Wowwwwwwwwwww! I'll be watching for that to pop up on some dealer's website with a five-figure price on it...

    You won't see it, it's probably going to end up in a 66FB holder. Mercs were very tightly graded by NGC back then.

    Interesting question, is this a case of an old holder holding the value back?

    No, this is a case of a seller not doing his homework. This was a buy it now, not an auction.

    Obviously I get that, I’m talking about the next seller assuming it’s up to modern standard as it isn’t coin that is easily crossed or cheap to do so.

    Which is worth more?

    Old NGC 65 new PCGS 65
    Old NGC CAC vs new PCGS 65 cac
    Old NGC cac vs new PCGS 66
    Old NGC cac vs new PCGS 66 cac
    Old NGC gold cac vs new PCGS 66 cac

    My question really was if the ambiguity of old standards and no sticker would take considerable money off the table if sold at FB levels making the old holder a serious negative. While in it right for sure, the new owner has some work and cost to do to maximize it considering crack out is clearly not an option even if it is truly all there.

    That depends on how FB it is. These guys will crack anything. Cost basis $80 with your upside at $20k+? This things gonna get cracked and cracked and cracked until it gets the grade they want.

    I'll ask again, do you risk losing that designation by cracking instead of crossing?

    I wouldn't. Because with my luck it would come back MS66 "plain."

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,167 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DCW said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Crypto said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Crypto said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Bikergeek said:
    Wowwwwwwwwwww! I'll be watching for that to pop up on some dealer's website with a five-figure price on it...

    You won't see it, it's probably going to end up in a 66FB holder. Mercs were very tightly graded by NGC back then.

    Interesting question, is this a case of an old holder holding the value back?

    No, this is a case of a seller not doing his homework. This was a buy it now, not an auction.

    Obviously I get that, I’m talking about the next seller assuming it’s up to modern standard as it isn’t coin that is easily crossed or cheap to do so.

    Which is worth more?

    Old NGC 65 new PCGS 65
    Old NGC CAC vs new PCGS 65 cac
    Old NGC cac vs new PCGS 66
    Old NGC cac vs new PCGS 66 cac
    Old NGC gold cac vs new PCGS 66 cac

    My question really was if the ambiguity of old standards and no sticker would take considerable money off the table if sold at FB levels making the old holder a serious negative. While in it right for sure, the new owner has some work and cost to do to maximize it considering crack out is clearly not an option even if it is truly all there.

    That depends on how FB it is. These guys will crack anything. Cost basis $80 with your upside at $20k+? This things gonna get cracked and cracked and cracked until it gets the grade they want.

    I'll ask again, do you risk losing that designation by cracking instead of crossing?

    I wouldn't. Because with my luck it would come back MS66 "plain."

    You and me both. The play with this particular coin, if it were me, would be CAC then Recon. But it unfortunately wasn't me that bought it.

    Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,346 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DCW said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Crypto said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Crypto said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Bikergeek said:
    Wowwwwwwwwwww! I'll be watching for that to pop up on some dealer's website with a five-figure price on it...

    You won't see it, it's probably going to end up in a 66FB holder. Mercs were very tightly graded by NGC back then.

    Interesting question, is this a case of an old holder holding the value back?

    No, this is a case of a seller not doing his homework. This was a buy it now, not an auction.

    Obviously I get that, I’m talking about the next seller assuming it’s up to modern standard as it isn’t coin that is easily crossed or cheap to do so.

    Which is worth more?

    Old NGC 65 new PCGS 65
    Old NGC CAC vs new PCGS 65 cac
    Old NGC cac vs new PCGS 66
    Old NGC cac vs new PCGS 66 cac
    Old NGC gold cac vs new PCGS 66 cac

    My question really was if the ambiguity of old standards and no sticker would take considerable money off the table if sold at FB levels making the old holder a serious negative. While in it right for sure, the new owner has some work and cost to do to maximize it considering crack out is clearly not an option even if it is truly all there.

    That depends on how FB it is. These guys will crack anything. Cost basis $80 with your upside at $20k+? This things gonna get cracked and cracked and cracked until it gets the grade they want.

    I'll ask again, do you risk losing that designation by cracking instead of crossing?

    I wouldn't. Because with my luck it would come back MS66 "plain."

    Simply no way in the world it gets cracked, 45fb is not a by accident grade at this point. And a probable five figure downgrade even if it is house money is a stupid chance. Crossover would be expensive though and still unlikely

  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 663 ✭✭✭✭

    @Bikergeek said:
    And still we wait for the buyer to chime in and claim their "You Suck" award... :wink:

    Wonder if the seller knows by now what a mistake he made

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,736 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Crypto said:

    @DCW said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Crypto said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Crypto said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Bikergeek said:
    Wowwwwwwwwwww! I'll be watching for that to pop up on some dealer's website with a five-figure price on it...

    You won't see it, it's probably going to end up in a 66FB holder. Mercs were very tightly graded by NGC back then.

    Interesting question, is this a case of an old holder holding the value back?

    No, this is a case of a seller not doing his homework. This was a buy it now, not an auction.

    Obviously I get that, I’m talking about the next seller assuming it’s up to modern standard as it isn’t coin that is easily crossed or cheap to do so.

    Which is worth more?

    Old NGC 65 new PCGS 65
    Old NGC CAC vs new PCGS 65 cac
    Old NGC cac vs new PCGS 66
    Old NGC cac vs new PCGS 66 cac
    Old NGC gold cac vs new PCGS 66 cac

    My question really was if the ambiguity of old standards and no sticker would take considerable money off the table if sold at FB levels making the old holder a serious negative. While in it right for sure, the new owner has some work and cost to do to maximize it considering crack out is clearly not an option even if it is truly all there.

    That depends on how FB it is. These guys will crack anything. Cost basis $80 with your upside at $20k+? This things gonna get cracked and cracked and cracked until it gets the grade they want.

    I'll ask again, do you risk losing that designation by cracking instead of crossing?

    I wouldn't. Because with my luck it would come back MS66 "plain."

    Simply no way in the world it gets cracked, 45fb is not a by accident grade at this point. And a probable five figure downgrade even if it is house money is a stupid chance. Crossover would be expensive though and still unlikely

    It might not be a “by accident grade” but it might be a “by accident FB designation”.
    As I posted earlier (copied below), PCGS did that at least once, and if they could do it, so could NGC.

    “When I wrote "mechanical error", I was thinking FB vs. non-FB.
    Many years ago, I won such a coin (in a PCGS holder) on eBay. The seller wouldn't accept a return, even though with some investigating, I'd learned that he knew it was a mechanical error and was supposed to return it to PCGS, but didn't.

    I don't recall for certain whether he was the original submitter of the coin, but I think he might have been. After some initial pushback, PCGS had me send the coin to them and made me whole.”

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 663 ✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @Crypto said:

    @DCW said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Crypto said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Crypto said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Bikergeek said:
    Wowwwwwwwwwww! I'll be watching for that to pop up on some dealer's website with a five-figure price on it...

    You won't see it, it's probably going to end up in a 66FB holder. Mercs were very tightly graded by NGC back then.

    Interesting question, is this a case of an old holder holding the value back?

    No, this is a case of a seller not doing his homework. This was a buy it now, not an auction.

    Obviously I get that, I’m talking about the next seller assuming it’s up to modern standard as it isn’t coin that is easily crossed or cheap to do so.

    Which is worth more?

    Old NGC 65 new PCGS 65
    Old NGC CAC vs new PCGS 65 cac
    Old NGC cac vs new PCGS 66
    Old NGC cac vs new PCGS 66 cac
    Old NGC gold cac vs new PCGS 66 cac

    My question really was if the ambiguity of old standards and no sticker would take considerable money off the table if sold at FB levels making the old holder a serious negative. While in it right for sure, the new owner has some work and cost to do to maximize it considering crack out is clearly not an option even if it is truly all there.

    That depends on how FB it is. These guys will crack anything. Cost basis $80 with your upside at $20k+? This things gonna get cracked and cracked and cracked until it gets the grade they want.

    I'll ask again, do you risk losing that designation by cracking instead of crossing?

    I wouldn't. Because with my luck it would come back MS66 "plain."

    Simply no way in the world it gets cracked, 45fb is not a by accident grade at this point. And a probable five figure downgrade even if it is house money is a stupid chance. Crossover would be expensive though and still unlikely

    It might not be a “by accident grade” but it might be a “by accident FB designation”.
    As I posted earlier (copied below), PCGS did that at least once, and if they could do it, so could NGC.

    “When I wrote "mechanical error", I was thinking FB vs. non-FB.
    Many years ago, I won such a coin (in a PCGS holder) on eBay. The seller wouldn't accept a return, even though with some investigating, I'd learned that he knew it was a mechanical error and was supposed to return it to PCGS, but didn't.

    I don't recall for certain whether he was the original submitter of the coin, but I think he might have been. After some initial pushback, PCGS had me send the coin to them and made me whole.”

    If you are thinking mechanical error shouldn’t this coin be returned by the buyer to NGC to be verified instead of being put potentially in a auction sale?

  • TomBTomB Posts: 20,613 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld and I have both been thinking and posting it might very well be a mechanical error throughout the thread. Should it be returned by the buyer? I'm certain the TOS with both companies tells the submitter to return any mechanical error, but after 30+ years of that coin in that holder I would doubt highly anyone would do it.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,346 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2024 2:15PM

    @MFeld said:

    @Crypto said:

    @DCW said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Crypto said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Crypto said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Bikergeek said:
    Wowwwwwwwwwww! I'll be watching for that to pop up on some dealer's website with a five-figure price on it...

    You won't see it, it's probably going to end up in a 66FB holder. Mercs were very tightly graded by NGC back then.

    Interesting question, is this a case of an old holder holding the value back?

    No, this is a case of a seller not doing his homework. This was a buy it now, not an auction.

    Obviously I get that, I’m talking about the next seller assuming it’s up to modern standard as it isn’t coin that is easily crossed or cheap to do so.

    Which is worth more?

    Old NGC 65 new PCGS 65
    Old NGC CAC vs new PCGS 65 cac
    Old NGC cac vs new PCGS 66
    Old NGC cac vs new PCGS 66 cac
    Old NGC gold cac vs new PCGS 66 cac

    My question really was if the ambiguity of old standards and no sticker would take considerable money off the table if sold at FB levels making the old holder a serious negative. While in it right for sure, the new owner has some work and cost to do to maximize it considering crack out is clearly not an option even if it is truly all there.

    That depends on how FB it is. These guys will crack anything. Cost basis $80 with your upside at $20k+? This things gonna get cracked and cracked and cracked until it gets the grade they want.

    I'll ask again, do you risk losing that designation by cracking instead of crossing?

    I wouldn't. Because with my luck it would come back MS66 "plain."

    Simply no way in the world it gets cracked, 45fb is not a by accident grade at this point. And a probable five figure downgrade even if it is house money is a stupid chance. Crossover would be expensive though and still unlikely

    It might not be a “by accident grade” but it might be a “by accident FB designation”.
    As I posted earlier (copied below), PCGS did that at least once, and if they could do it, so could NGC.

    “When I wrote "mechanical error", I was thinking FB vs. non-FB.
    Many years ago, I won such a coin (in a PCGS holder) on eBay. The seller wouldn't accept a return, even though with some investigating, I'd learned that he knew it was a mechanical error and was supposed to return it to PCGS, but didn't.

    I don't recall for certain whether he was the original submitter of the coin, but I think he might have been. After some initial pushback, PCGS had me send the coin to them and made me whole.”

    I get that and figured the same when I saw it as it would have been in coveted channels by now after 30 years of transactions. While it is possible the dealer who made it originally sold it to a collector before the Pop reports matured who then held it until present and passed on leaving a bulk collection where it went unnoticed. Probability states that it has had dozens of transactions and nobody had the heart to crack it but know what it isn't. I get all that and I meant to say a properly attributed 45p FB isn't an accidental grade given out lightly.

    I just thought the conversation topic was more interesting assuming it to be real than assuming it was a mistake. It would be a rare scenario where a classic slab holds back value and the unusual complexity of a dealer maximizing a coin such as that to be aligned with market preferences in presentation. Not unusual in what would need to be done but unusual in the risk and costs vs downside. the price spread between FB and not is crazy for basically the same coin. A complete set of gem Mercs non-FB look exacatly the same as a Gem FB set in a whitman. I understand the market creating rarity thus desirability for otherwise common things, I just don't get collectors falling for it time and time again across many genres.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,736 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Walkerlover asked:

    If you are thinking mechanical error shouldn’t this coin be returned by the buyer to NGC to be verified instead of being put potentially in a auction sale?

    My reply:

    I think that would be the right thing to do. And that some buyers would do so, but others wouldn’t. I also believe that in the event there’s an obvious “mechanical error” of that nature, an auction house should decline to auction it.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,736 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Crypto said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Crypto said:

    @DCW said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Crypto said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Crypto said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @Bikergeek said:
    Wowwwwwwwwwww! I'll be watching for that to pop up on some dealer's website with a five-figure price on it...

    You won't see it, it's probably going to end up in a 66FB holder. Mercs were very tightly graded by NGC back then.

    Interesting question, is this a case of an old holder holding the value back?

    No, this is a case of a seller not doing his homework. This was a buy it now, not an auction.

    Obviously I get that, I’m talking about the next seller assuming it’s up to modern standard as it isn’t coin that is easily crossed or cheap to do so.

    Which is worth more?

    Old NGC 65 new PCGS 65
    Old NGC CAC vs new PCGS 65 cac
    Old NGC cac vs new PCGS 66
    Old NGC cac vs new PCGS 66 cac
    Old NGC gold cac vs new PCGS 66 cac

    My question really was if the ambiguity of old standards and no sticker would take considerable money off the table if sold at FB levels making the old holder a serious negative. While in it right for sure, the new owner has some work and cost to do to maximize it considering crack out is clearly not an option even if it is truly all there.

    That depends on how FB it is. These guys will crack anything. Cost basis $80 with your upside at $20k+? This things gonna get cracked and cracked and cracked until it gets the grade they want.

    I'll ask again, do you risk losing that designation by cracking instead of crossing?

    I wouldn't. Because with my luck it would come back MS66 "plain."

    Simply no way in the world it gets cracked, 45fb is not a by accident grade at this point. And a probable five figure downgrade even if it is house money is a stupid chance. Crossover would be expensive though and still unlikely

    It might not be a “by accident grade” but it might be a “by accident FB designation”.
    As I posted earlier (copied below), PCGS did that at least once, and if they could do it, so could NGC.

    “When I wrote "mechanical error", I was thinking FB vs. non-FB.
    Many years ago, I won such a coin (in a PCGS holder) on eBay. The seller wouldn't accept a return, even though with some investigating, I'd learned that he knew it was a mechanical error and was supposed to return it to PCGS, but didn't.

    I don't recall for certain whether he was the original submitter of the coin, but I think he might have been. After some initial pushback, PCGS had me send the coin to them and made me whole.”

    I get that and figured the same when I saw it as it would have been in coveted channels by now after 30 years of transactions. While it is possible the dealer who made it originally sold it to a collector before the Pop reports matured who then held it until present and passed on leaving a bulk collection where it went unnoticed. Probability states that it has had dozens of transactions and nobody had the heart to crack it but know what it isn't. I get all that and I meant to say a properly attributed 45p FB isn't an accidental grade given out lightly.

    I just thought the conversation topic was more interesting assuming it to be real than assuming it was a mistake. It would be a rare scenario where a classic slab holds back value and the unusual complexity of a dealer maximizing a coin such as that to be aligned with market preferences in presentation. Not unusual in what would need to be done but unusual in the risk and costs vs downside. the price spread between FB and not is crazy for basically the same coin. A complete set of gem Mercs non-FB look exacatly the same as a Gem FB set in a whitman. I understand the market creating rarity thus desirability for otherwise common things, I just don't get collectors falling for it time and time again across many genres.

    Thanks for the clarification. And I agree that it’s a more interesting conversation under the premise that no mistake was involved.
    I’m not assuming it’s a mechanical error, though I figure it’s a decent possibility.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • RLSnapperRLSnapper Posts: 494 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you notice the other coins offered by the Ebay seller many were Mercury dime rattlers....all FB. My guess is the seller picked up this group on the cheap from the family of a deceased collector.....marked them up to double his money on a quick flip. To be honest I had no idea this 1945 FB was a 20K coin and probably would have made the same mistake this dealer made. That's why I am a collector not a dealer.
    BTW....his phone number is in his listing....I might give him a call to see if he has another one hanging around that he hasn't gotten a chance to list yet.

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,601 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Keep an eye out for it in the near future. Maybe there'll be better pictures. If it shows up on eBay, chances are it'll be with lousy pictures that hide the mechanical error. If it shows up on a reputable auction site, the pictures will tell the full story.

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