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Is this a legit rattler label??

LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,385 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

Appeared on ebay today - super rare if legit, 1963 Franklin with blank obverse label.

I can't claim to have seen every variation, but in comparing it to a legit rattler, the lettering seems odd.


"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.

Comments

  • EastonCollectionEastonCollection Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭✭✭

    can you show both sides of the slabs?

    Easton Collection
  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 22,157 ✭✭✭✭✭

    These slabs aren't well sealed... any chance the front of the label is due to water damage (the slab being partially soaked to wash away the ink) and some ripples in the paper made the reverse side look a bit funny?

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,877 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The top of the holder seems to have a chip where the seam comes together.
    It may just be normal wear & tear or maybe it was pried open.

  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,385 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm looking at all the gaps in the letters compared to the legit one.

    The other side of the label is blank.

    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • ToreyTorey Posts: 201 ✭✭✭✭

    Interesting! Hopefully, a forum member bought it and can confirm if it has been tampered with.

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,877 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Lakesammman said:
    I'm looking at all the gaps in the letters compared to the legit one.

    This one has gaps in the letters and is a genuine rattler.

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,011 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There were a slew of counterfeit inserts/rattlers back in the day.
    I'd be concerned.

    peacockcoins

  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,385 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To me, it looks like thin letters v. gaps.


    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @braddick said:
    There were a slew of counterfeit inserts/rattlers back in the day.
    I'd be concerned.

    And the arrangement of the letters (what lined up above what) was one of the diagnostics.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,507 ✭✭✭✭✭

    On the comparison slab the line under "Grading" is shorter than the others. The slab listed in the OP seems to match what is in the museum of coin holders for Gen 1.0 and 1.1 white label slabs which have the line under "Grading" close to the same length as the others. https://www.pcgs.com/holdermuseum
    I'm not sure what to think here.
    OP:

    Gen 1.0

    Gen 1.2

    Collector, occasional seller

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,877 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2024 12:06AM

    Here is my dumb guess.

    The holder was pried open and the front tag was turned over. It would be blank on the back side

    1) I don't like the chip at the top on the seam.
    2) The coin is reverse up in the holder.
    3) Most samples say "Sample" on them.

    These 3 possible red flags would keep me from buying it.

    Edited to add: It would be an easy way for someone to turn their generic rattlers into something rare.

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,147 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ... or the half of the tag with printing removed

  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ifthevamzarockin said:
    3) Most samples say "Sample" on them.

    There are samples and then there are samples. The samples given out to the public, even to dealers generally do say sample (there are exceptions even here).

    But the samples made for internal use - testing new machines, new shells, different labels, etc. - don't always explicitly say so.

    I don't like the chip, but if you pried it open enough to flip the label, that would - generally - have broken the ultrasonic weld and that should be visible. I'd like to see a magnified top-edge view.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • 1Bufffan1Bufffan Posts: 643 ✭✭✭

    I wonder if ultra-violet light would show anything?

  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,385 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like it's been pulled from ebay. :+1:

    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,905 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Lakesammman said:
    Appeared on ebay today - super rare if legit, 1963 Franklin with blank obverse label.

    I can't claim to have seen every variation, but in comparing it to a legit rattler, the lettering seems odd.


    Not sure about the label but it does seem a bit off IMO. The coin housed inside however would certainly classify as dreck. RGDS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,364 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just seeing this. The quality of the lettering and the lines feel like a counterfeit to me.

    Justin Lee Numismatic Photography



    image
  • GreenstangGreenstang Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The top one is counterfeit. The font style is different.

  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭✭✭

    But is it a contemporary counterfeit and thus collectible???????

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,152 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BStrauss3 said:
    But is it a contemporary counterfeit and thus collectible???????

    You can collect anything. For example, in addition to coins, I also collect dust. ;)

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,002 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was one of the more successful collectors of debt.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,385 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For the right price, I'd buy it as a counterfeit. :D

    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • FrankHFrankH Posts: 945 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @braddick said:
    There were a slew of counterfeit inserts/rattlers back in the day.
    I'd be concerned.

    "Concerned" is the lifeblood of numismatics. :p

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