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Put a fork in it...

burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 4, 2024 7:25PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Don't worry, be happy...

Comments

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,306 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I know them. They are highly ethical and would pull a listing if alerted. How and when did you contact them?

  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I sent them an email pointing to this thread. It's also Sunday morning.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have tried several times in the past both through their contact webpage and their FB site; yesterday they directed me to the auctioneer and I sent emails prior to the auction ending as well as after to them, but obviously short notice.

    We will see if I can get any actual response to this one during normal business this week.

    I did not say they are unethical, but can show images of several bad coins listed in their auctions over the last 2 years including a half cent last year that burned a friend of mine.

    If you have a direct contact @jmlanzaf please share!

  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,365 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, I know them, too and agree with @jmlanzaf. They are honest, in my experience.

    Honest, general auctioneers don't want problems and will not knowingly sell counterfeits. And some HiBid auctioneers fall into that category.

    I had a similar situation where another general auctioneer who regularly sells coins (presumably mostly from a single consignor), had some Chinese counterfeits and I carelessly bid on one without looking closely. In my conversation with the auctioneer, I explained why the coin was counterfeit-he had other fantasy coins where genuine counterparts were never made. This convinced him and he cancelled my bid but also found out that his regular consignor was slipping in counterfeits to improve his bottom line. The auctioneers doesn't want to be selling counterfeits. So this auctioneer did the right thing, and hopefully put his consignor on notice, too.

    But, as we well know, there are many auctioneers who would just turn their head the other way. But most states regulate auctioneers, so you can always file a complaint. Some states will actually follow up with action. NY state, where I live, has NO AUCTIONEER LISCENSE REQUIRED and no means of holding crooked auctioneers accountable.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • retirednowretirednow Posts: 443 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @burfle23 said:

    Auction for a 1785 Vermont, a series I collect; I have included images of the listing as well as the auction company involved and comparison images of the auctioned example to a genuine example. Only 1 genuine variety of the "Vermontis" landscape.

    I had sold off my colonials a short time back and while I had no "Vermontis" pieces, I am curious as to how you concluded this is not original? Is it mainly the field plow or other features? I find these pieces all seem to be so cruelly struck and worn it is hard to compare. I do not understand how graders can authenticate many of these colonials, not to mention those Ancient pieces.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,306 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @burfle23 said:
    I have tried several times in the past both through their contact webpage and their FB site; yesterday they directed me to the auctioneer and I sent emails prior to the auction ending as well as after to them, but obviously short notice.

    We will see if I can get any actual response to this one during normal business this week.

    I did not say they are unethical, but can show images of several bad coins listed in their auctions over the last 2 years including a half cent last year that burned a friend of mine.

    If you have a direct contact @jmlanzaf please share!

    I actually hand the auctioneer's phone number. They also have a website. Since Covid, they've gone 100% online and so the office is only staffed by one person during business hours. I don't think there actually anyone there on weekends.

    I actually won a couple items in yesterday's auction.

    Here's their website:

    Hessney.com

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,306 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @burfle23 said:
    An interesting development; the actual auction house I emailed yesterday just responded they are having the coin sent out to be authenticated! Thanks for folks help here.

    I went out on a limb wining it to prevent someone else from getting burnt; figured I could get some help making a point of it. The 1st part as always was attribution...

    They have been known to do this for other coins when a question was raised. As I say, they are very ethical.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,306 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @sellitstore said:
    Yes, I know them, too and agree with @jmlanzaf. They are honest, in my experience.

    Honest, general auctioneers don't want problems and will not knowingly sell counterfeits. And some HiBid auctioneers fall into that category.

    I had a similar situation where another general auctioneer who regularly sells coins (presumably mostly from a single consignor), had some Chinese counterfeits and I carelessly bid on one without looking closely. In my conversation with the auctioneer, I explained why the coin was counterfeit-he had other fantasy coins where genuine counterparts were never made. This convinced him and he cancelled my bid but also found out that his regular consignor was slipping in counterfeits to improve his bottom line. The auctioneers doesn't want to be selling counterfeits. So this auctioneer did the right thing, and hopefully put his consignor on notice, too.

    But, as we well know, there are many auctioneers who would just turn their head the other way. But most states regulate auctioneers, so you can always file a complaint. Some states will actually follow up with action. NY state, where I live, has NO AUCTIONEER LISCENSE REQUIRED and no means of holding crooked auctioneers accountable.

    I'm also in NY. It's on a county by county basis, I believe. In my county, Monroe, auctioneers need to be licensed and bonded. As a result, most of the auction houses were just across county lines in the adjacent counties.

  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I emailed them this morning (at 9:22am US/Central time). I received a reply less than an hour later, indicating the bid had been removed, and you weren't charged.

    The reply also stated "I just try to not send emails at 9pm on a Saturday.", which seems perfectly reasonable in today's over-connected world.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @burfle23 said:
    An interesting development; the actual auction house I emailed yesterday just responded they are having the coin sent out to be authenticated! Thanks for folks help here.

    I went out on a limb wining it to prevent someone else from getting burnt; figured I could get some help making a point of it. The 1st part as always was attribution...

    They have been known to do this for other coins when a question was raised. As I say, they are very ethical.

    Thanks for your response; I have saved so many images of bad coins listed in HiBid auctions it is getting numbing. I appreciate the actual auctioneer's responses today, especially on a Sunday.

    And I understand his concern that I emailed him late in the auction, as that was as soon as I was made aware of it and verified it as fake myself,

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2024 8:53AM

    @retirednow said:

    @burfle23 said:

    Auction for a 1785 Vermont, a series I collect; I have included images of the listing as well as the auction company involved and comparison images of the auctioned example to a genuine example. Only 1 genuine variety of the "Vermontis" landscape.

    I had sold off my colonials a short time back and while I had no "Vermontis" pieces, I am curious as to how you concluded this is not original? Is it mainly the field plow or other features? I find these pieces all seem to be so cruelly struck and worn it is hard to compare. I do not understand how graders can authenticate many of these colonials, not to mention those Ancient pieces.

    It just doesn't match the only known genuine die pairing for this variety; genuine example on the right:

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BStrauss3 said:
    I emailed them this morning (at 9:22am US/Central time). I received a reply less than an hour later, indicating the bid had been removed, and you weren't charged.

    The reply also stated "I just try to not send emails at 9pm on a Saturday.", which seems perfectly reasonable in today's over-connected world.

    Interesting; I received my invoice email at 7:07 PM Saturday.

    I received the email they did not charge my card and would be sending the coin out for authentication at 9:52 this morning.

  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The invoice is probably an auto-stuipd.

    I'm guessing she saw your message last night and acted, but assumed Monday during business hours was timely enough - until 2-3 of us messaged.

    Given how I work, I definitely can't fault somebody for wanting to disconnect. Out-of-office is out-of-office is probably a healthier work-life balance than "always-on-connected".

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,676 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you hit the Contact Auctioneer box on item, it is easier for them to find the item you are asking about.

  • knovak1976knovak1976 Posts: 205 ✭✭✭

    Looking at eBay and there’s a few for sale…all of them look extremely crude….🤔

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,306 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @burfle23 said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @burfle23 said:
    An interesting development; the actual auction house I emailed yesterday just responded they are having the coin sent out to be authenticated! Thanks for folks help here.

    I went out on a limb wining it to prevent someone else from getting burnt; figured I could get some help making a point of it. The 1st part as always was attribution...

    They have been known to do this for other coins when a question was raised. As I say, they are very ethical.

    Thanks for your response; I have saved so many images of bad coins listed in HiBid auctions it is getting numbing. I appreciate the actual auctioneer's responses today, especially on a Sunday.

    And I understand his concern that I emailed him late in the auction, as that was as soon as I was made aware of it and verified it as fake myself,

    Hi-Bid isn't an auction company. It's just an online service for auction houses. There are more than a few sketchy auction houses out there, and there are also numerous auction houses that have no numismatic knowledge.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,306 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2024 1:22PM

    @BStrauss3 said:
    The invoice is probably an auto-stuipd.

    I'm guessing she saw your message last night and acted, but assumed Monday during business hours was timely enough - until 2-3 of us messaged.

    Given how I work, I definitely can't fault somebody for wanting to disconnect. Out-of-office is out-of-office is probably a healthier work-life balance than "always-on-connected".

    Yes, the invoicing is automated. It also comes from hi- bid not Hessney. It's part of the service hi-bid provides.

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    Yes, the invoicing is automated. It also comes from hi- bid not Hessney. It's part of the service hi-bid provides.

    So, HiBid is a selling platform for auction houses, correct?

    The invoice appears to be from Hessey to my eyes; maybe you have a different interpretation.

  • NewEnglandRaritiesNewEnglandRarities Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2024 1:59PM

    @burfle23 said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    Yes, the invoicing is automated. It also comes from hi- bid not Hessney. It's part of the service hi-bid provides.

    So, HiBid is a selling platform for auction houses, correct?

    The invoice appears to be from Hessey to my eyes; maybe you have a different interpretation.

    Hey Jack, yes hi-Bid is very similar to iCollector or even eBay. It’s just an online auction platform that anyone can use to have an auction. The company offering the coin for sale was Hessney and it looks like they do their own invoices which is an option as well.

    New England Rarities...Dealer In Colonial Coinage and Americana
  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks @NewEnglandRarities , I was a little tongue in cheek and wondering if the eBay reference would show up in this post!

  • NewEnglandRaritiesNewEnglandRarities Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭✭

    Haha, I totally got it afterwards and should have read a little bit more of your comment and I would have totally seen it!! Talk soon buddy!

    New England Rarities...Dealer In Colonial Coinage and Americana
  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BStrauss3 said:
    The invoice is probably an auto-stuipd.

    I'm guessing she saw your message last night and acted, but assumed Monday during business hours was timely enough - until 2-3 of us messaged.

    Given how I work, I definitely can't fault somebody for wanting to disconnect. Out-of-office is out-of-office is probably a healthier work-life balance than "always-on-connected".

    I understand "out of office", but many auctions run the weekends...

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,306 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2024 6:18PM

    @burfle23 said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    Yes, the invoicing is automated. It also comes from hi- bid not Hessney. It's part of the service hi-bid provides.

    So, HiBid is a selling platform for auction houses, correct?

    The invoice appears to be from Hessey to my eyes; maybe you have a different interpretation.

    It uses the Hessney return address but they are sent out automatically by the Hi Bid software. They also do the payment processing and shipping calculations.

    I actually preferred it when they did their own. I could arrange special pick up or shipping. They've really cut back the in-house operation and staff when they made the switch.

  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pretty sure HiBid wants their cut of the action and sending the invoices ensures they see it all... just guessing, and I have a nasty suspicious mind, but that's what I would do.

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Talk about getting down into the weeds...

    Coin is fake, an idiot sniped it and made the mistake of posting here.

    Over and out!

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