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Will This Coin Take Details If Graded?

Have this coin:

I see those lines on the face and hair, that are parallel, can be taken as scratches?
Have seen coins like this sample, that have a straight grade:

And on reverse, I have seen that detail on straight graded coins of this type:

Thanks.

Comments

  • KSorboKSorbo Posts: 102 ✭✭✭

    Is the scratch on the second example PMD or a mint made adjustment mark?

    The third example is a die deterioration issue.

    The scratches on your coin appear to be PMD.

  • ELuisELuis Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭

    @KSorbo said:
    Is the scratch on the second example PMD or a mint made adjustment mark?

    The third example is a die deterioration issue.

    The scratches on your coin appear to be PMD.

    I think on the Reales sample maybe it is an adjustment mark, I have seen these but always with more than a single line.

    Okay, so the parallel lines are Post Mint Damage.

    Thanks!

  • realeswatcherrealeswatcher Posts: 338 ✭✭✭

    The mark across Charles III's face in the 2nd picture is almost certainly NOT an as-made adjustment mark - it's damage. That should never have straight graded.

    The scratches on Maximilian's face on the 1866 Peso are fairly light BUT in a focal area. "Maybe" could grade straight but I'd assume the worst.

    The blobs by the reverse rim are cuds, as made and fairly common on these.

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,502 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2024 1:47PM

    I was looking at the 1774 Bolivian in more detail at Heritage. Those do not look like post-mint damage to me, as there isn't metal displacement. If it was a scratch, all that metal being moved would create raised metal and you don't see that. I'm betting it's a strike-through. Also, it's a double-struck coin. I wonder if something got in the way during the second strike? Could also be something already on the planchet during the strike. Look at the reverse left pillar on that coin - looks like scratches but i bet it came out of the mint that way.

    To go back to the original coin, i think the obverse scratches would preclude it from being straight graded at PCGS. There's about a 40% shot at NGC, imo.

  • ELuisELuis Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭

    @realeswatcher said:
    The mark across Charles III's face in the 2nd picture is almost certainly NOT an as-made adjustment mark - it's damage. That should never have straight graded.

    I got the same impression.

    The scratches on Maximilian's face on the 1866 Peso are fairly light BUT in a focal area. "Maybe" could grade straight but I'd assume the worst.

    I am sure those are light surface marks, but never knows where the grade if any end up.

    The blobs by the reverse rim are cuds, as made and fairly common on these.

    Thanks that make sense to me.

  • ELuisELuis Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭

    @TwoKopeiki said:
    I was looking at the 1774 Bolivian in more detail at Heritage. Those do not look like post-mint damage to me, as there isn't metal displacement. If it was a scratch, all that metal being moved would create raised metal and you don't see that. I'm betting it's a strike-through. Also, it's a double-struck coin. I wonder if something got in the way during the second strike? Could also be something already on the planchet during the strike. Look at the reverse left pillar on that coin - looks like scratches but i bet it came out of the mint that way.

    To go back to the original coin, i think the obverse scratches would preclude it from being straight graded at PCGS. There's about a 40% shot at NGC, imo.

    I was looking at the coins and saw that 1774 8R, and since I have some raw coins that I want to send for grading, this coin came up.

    If you see the three lines on the neck, those are not scratches - I know as you mentioned there is no raised metal? Also the one on the front above the eye? on the cheek ? All looks like scratches to me.

    Anyway another of my coins that goes to the drain :(

  • realeswatcherrealeswatcher Posts: 338 ✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2024 2:31PM

    @TwoKopeiki said:
    To go back to the original coin, I think the obverse scratches would preclude it from being straight graded at PCGS. There's about a 40% shot at NGC, imo.

    Agreed.


    I was looking at the 1774 Bolivian in more detail at Heritage.

    https://coins.ha.com/itm/bolivia/bolivia-charles-iii-8-reales-1774-pts-jr-ms62-ngc-/a/61372-22010.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

    "...vibrant nacreous patina..." Oy. Yet no explanation/discussion the huge glaring face mark?

    Anyway, I'm not seeing doubling, just a few repunched letters. Regardless, I could be sold on that being a strike-through and fair point about no apparent metal movement, but note the additional marks/scratches on the forehead which, if you look carefully, extend into the hair (actually deeper there, just camouflaged).

    The mark does seem to extend into the I of DEI, which is curious... and the large lamination issue at D of DEI is interesting. Good study coin.

    PS - I also question that coin having no wear, but that's another discussion.

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,502 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hmm, I saw the doubling on the lips / nose which made me think double strike, but based on not seeing any other doubling this could be a re-punched king punch. Definitely a lot going on with this one

  • JohnnyCacheJohnnyCache Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TwoKopeiki said:
    Hmm, I saw the doubling on the lips / nose which made me think double strike, but based on not seeing any other doubling this could be a re-punched king punch. Definitely a lot going on with this one

    I think your right on the re-punched king.
    The obverse and reverse dies are a match for my 1774.


  • ELuisELuis Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2024 11:01AM

    On the two 1774, this area is different:

    And back a little bit to the coin I posted, looking at some coins from an HA auction.

    This one graded straight MS63:

    With AU58

    XF45 is that not oxidation spots?

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