I took a few images today of a couple of new purchases using the setup I have now. It's way to much work. I can't wait for the copy stand to show up.
I'll post these just because I put alot of effort into it. Still not happy. I won't be taking any images until my stand is here.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
I'll comment on what I see in the photo of the Morgan above.
Light distribution and the exposure is pretty good. Focus and sharpness are not good at all. You are correct. A copy stand (and a way to remotely trigger the shutter) will solve most of that. Using a tethered preview feature on your camera will allow you to focus quite precisely. Of all the problems, this one is conceptually pretty easy to fix. A stable foundation and correct focusing will solve it 100%.
The Peace dollar is a little over-exposed. Light distribution isn't as good, and there isn't really enough contrast between light and dark to make it a compelling photo. It's also not focused very well. But, again, there is good news. Big silver coins are pretty easy, once you get it figured out. This photo could be improved, but it's the photo of a 27-S that I had available.
This is the sort of sharpness you should be able to get from a Peace dollar. You can see the field is in focus slightly better than the devices. A smaller aperture (bigger f-stop) can help with this, but you either need more light or a longer shutter speed to compensate. Both of those have their own limitations. On the full-coin photo it's not really noticeable.
The use of a tether needs more support. I remember when I started getting into photography, someone who was helping me stated that a tether and related equipment were too costly to be effective.
Custom album maker and numismatic photographer.
Need a personalized album made? Design it on the website below and I'll build it for you. https://www.donahuenumismatics.com/.
@The_Dinosaur_Man said:
The use of a tether needs more support. I remember when I started getting into photography, someone who was helping me stated that a tether and related equipment were too costly to be effective.
Er, these modern days, pretty much everyone has a laptop and/or a phone. If you have a camera past the dinosaur age, it will talk to your devices with lots of different tethering software that is free. Alot more convenient than other ways to get your images into your image processing software. So your comment is very confusing give these modern days and modern applications...................................
You have to ask yourself, why am I taking this photo?
Are you trying to sell the coin? Is the photo for numismatic study? Are you documenting your collection for the sake of insurance, or identifying the coin if its stolen? Are you checking up on it to see if its toning has changed, or if its corroding? Are you using the photo to compare some features of the coin to others? Are you trying to match VAMs and want to see every die polish line? etc.
In some cases its wise to have lighting rigidly placed, some measured exact distance and angle from the coin and camera so you can reproduce the photo later. In others you want to move the lights around for each coin. Its amazing how a small change can make scratches stand out or disappear altogether.
Look at how different coins can look with axial vs off axis lighting. With big diffusers over the lights vs just a bulb vs a pinpoint source like a single LED.
@BryceM said:
I'll comment on what I see in the photo of the Morgan above.
Light distribution and the exposure is pretty good. Focus and sharpness are not good at all. You are correct. A copy stand (and a way to remotely trigger the shutter) will solve most of that. Using a tethered preview feature on your camera will allow you to focus quite precisely. Of all the problems, this one is conceptually pretty easy to fix. A stable foundation and correct focusing will solve it 100%.
This is the sort of sharpness you should be able to get from a Peace dollar. You can see the field is in focus slightly better than the devices. A smaller aperture (bigger f-stop) can help with this, but you either need more light or a longer shutter speed to compensate. Both of those have their own limitations.
Its so important not to put the copy stand on your desk, it needs its own stand so you don't start it vibrating clicking your mouse to trigger the shutter. I did photography at a coin show today and didn't bring a separate stand and it was frustrating. I also wish EOS utility had separate keyboard shortcuts to trigger the autofocus and shutter. Some lenses autofocus will shake the camera, so you have to hover over the button with your mouse for a few seconds before clicking to make sure its perfectly still, which means you have to look at your mouse pointer instead of just hitting the spacebar.
One neat trick for finding the optimal f-stop is to let the JPEG algorithm tell you. Take a photo for each f number and go with whatever f number produces the largest file size. Just make sure there is no texture to the surface the coin is on, or zoom in so only the coin is in frame. You'll also need to make sure your lens is perfectly perpendicular to the surface for this to work, which you can achieve by putting a small mirror on the surface and focusing the lens on its reflection and centering it. I go 1 or 2 f numbers higher than the most sharp, just so its a bit more forgiving to coins that aren't level (like coins in flips), but then if I'm photographing a coin in a slab that has scratches I'll go a few steps lower to make the scratches less apparent.
I received my copy stand yesterday and had a chance to play around with it today.
Works much better than a tripod for me.
This is a very simple stand but it works great.
I went with 100 watt led daylight bulbs.
I need to figure out some method of diffusing them if necessary.
This is a fun hobby within a hobby.
I took a few practice shots!
This is a very white coin and highly reflective. I was able to take these shots no problem. Using the tripod was a real hassle for me.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
@robec @messydesk @FlyingAl
I keep trying to bring out the luster bands but I am having an extremely difficult time doing it. I've moved the coin around under the lights to try to capture it but that doesn't work to well.
The lights are stationary on my copy stand so that may not help.
They are set at 10:00 and 2:00.I am using 100 watt LED lights, maybe they need to be brighter?
I added a third light and this is what I got.
I could use some tips to try to improve on this.
I think I was able to bring out the luster bands on this coin below with no problem. The 1921 is highly reflective which makes me think it's difficult to get the luster bands to show up. I'd like to be able to master that technique if possible.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
I think that photo does a good job of showing lustre. Coins with cameo naturally show less lustre because lustre comes from the metal flow lines and cameo coins fields are smoother because the dies were polished. The only thing you could try doing is changing the lights angle in the vertical (moving them closer/further from the lens or moving them up/down).
Smaller lights, or further lights create narrower lustre bands. Getting them closer or putting a diffuser in front makes the bands wider.
I spent some time playing with the lighting.
Now I just need to learn a little about photoshop so I can draw out some of the details a little better.
This was the end result.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
@Morgan13 said:
I spent some time playing with the lighting.
Now I just need to learn a little about photoshop so I can draw out some of the details a little better.
This was the end result.
This one is getting close. You can see the texture of the coin (look at Liberty's cheek), die polish lines, and flow lines. The focus is pretty good. The luster bands aren't in the typical location (10 and 2 o'clock) so it looks a little odd to my eye, but sometimes I do that on purpose too. The second photos (of the 1921) are out of focus and aren't sharp.
@Morgan13 said:
I spent some time playing with the lighting.
Now I just need to learn a little about photoshop so I can draw out some of the details a little better.
This was the end result.
Nice and sharp. Time to learn about the histogram and what it means. When you shoot a picture, you should be able to see its histogram. A broad curve means high contrast, like the 82-S above. A narrow curve will be lower contrast, like a corroded copper. A histogram crammed up against the left means too much shadow detail lost in black pixels, while crammed up against the right is highlight detail lost in white pixels (again, the 82-S). Look at the histogram to figure out if your images are appropriately exposed. Reduce contrast with diffusion. Increase contrast with harder light. Move the histogram left or right with exposure adjustments. This will be tricker with copper or gold, as the red channel will be shifted farther right than the others.
Working on some images with my new camera.
The histogram is something I’m trying to wrap my head around I’m trying to take nice even images of my coins.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
@Morgan13 said:
I spent hours with my camera setup. It's time to learn to use it. I've been avoiding it by using my cell phone. Imaging coins is very tough to do.
Once I start something I get a little OCD. I know these images are not perfect but you should have seen them when I started last night. This is a work in progress.
I have been getting some pointers from FlyingAL. He knows his stuff and got me on the right path with plenty of information. I am grateful for him taking the time to help me.
No sense taking images of coins without sharing them.
Remember this is a work in progress.
You can kind of see the progression as I am improving. Someday I will be able to take better images. It takes practice and learning a little at a time. I wish it was point and shoot but it's much more difficult.
Get yourself a Proof Silver Eagle….good place to start and gain confidence….
Comments
I took a few images today of a couple of new purchases using the setup I have now. It's way to much work. I can't wait for the copy stand to show up.
I'll post these just because I put alot of effort into it. Still not happy. I won't be taking any images until my stand is here.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
I'll comment on what I see in the photo of the Morgan above.
Light distribution and the exposure is pretty good. Focus and sharpness are not good at all. You are correct. A copy stand (and a way to remotely trigger the shutter) will solve most of that. Using a tethered preview feature on your camera will allow you to focus quite precisely. Of all the problems, this one is conceptually pretty easy to fix. A stable foundation and correct focusing will solve it 100%.
The Peace dollar is a little over-exposed. Light distribution isn't as good, and there isn't really enough contrast between light and dark to make it a compelling photo. It's also not focused very well. But, again, there is good news. Big silver coins are pretty easy, once you get it figured out. This photo could be improved, but it's the photo of a 27-S that I had available.
This is the sort of sharpness you should be able to get from a Peace dollar. You can see the field is in focus slightly better than the devices. A smaller aperture (bigger f-stop) can help with this, but you either need more light or a longer shutter speed to compensate. Both of those have their own limitations. On the full-coin photo it's not really noticeable.
The use of a tether needs more support. I remember when I started getting into photography, someone who was helping me stated that a tether and related equipment were too costly to be effective.
Custom album maker and numismatic photographer.
Need a personalized album made? Design it on the website below and I'll build it for you.
https://www.donahuenumismatics.com/.
Er, these modern days, pretty much everyone has a laptop and/or a phone. If you have a camera past the dinosaur age, it will talk to your devices with lots of different tethering software that is free. Alot more convenient than other ways to get your images into your image processing software. So your comment is very confusing give these modern days and modern applications...................................
You have to ask yourself, why am I taking this photo?
Are you trying to sell the coin? Is the photo for numismatic study? Are you documenting your collection for the sake of insurance, or identifying the coin if its stolen? Are you checking up on it to see if its toning has changed, or if its corroding? Are you using the photo to compare some features of the coin to others? Are you trying to match VAMs and want to see every die polish line? etc.
In some cases its wise to have lighting rigidly placed, some measured exact distance and angle from the coin and camera so you can reproduce the photo later. In others you want to move the lights around for each coin. Its amazing how a small change can make scratches stand out or disappear altogether.
Look at how different coins can look with axial vs off axis lighting. With big diffusers over the lights vs just a bulb vs a pinpoint source like a single LED.
Its so important not to put the copy stand on your desk, it needs its own stand so you don't start it vibrating clicking your mouse to trigger the shutter. I did photography at a coin show today and didn't bring a separate stand and it was frustrating. I also wish EOS utility had separate keyboard shortcuts to trigger the autofocus and shutter. Some lenses autofocus will shake the camera, so you have to hover over the button with your mouse for a few seconds before clicking to make sure its perfectly still, which means you have to look at your mouse pointer instead of just hitting the spacebar.
One neat trick for finding the optimal f-stop is to let the JPEG algorithm tell you. Take a photo for each f number and go with whatever f number produces the largest file size. Just make sure there is no texture to the surface the coin is on, or zoom in so only the coin is in frame. You'll also need to make sure your lens is perfectly perpendicular to the surface for this to work, which you can achieve by putting a small mirror on the surface and focusing the lens on its reflection and centering it. I go 1 or 2 f numbers higher than the most sharp, just so its a bit more forgiving to coins that aren't level (like coins in flips), but then if I'm photographing a coin in a slab that has scratches I'll go a few steps lower to make the scratches less apparent.
I received my copy stand yesterday and had a chance to play around with it today.
Works much better than a tripod for me.
This is a very simple stand but it works great.
I went with 100 watt led daylight bulbs.
I need to figure out some method of diffusing them if necessary.
This is a fun hobby within a hobby.
I took a few practice shots!
This is a very white coin and highly reflective. I was able to take these shots no problem. Using the tripod was a real hassle for me.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
Looks like you need some white balance adjustments, as well as adjusting the placement of the lights.
Try and have the luster bands even out if you can - the composition of a coin image is the most difficult thing to learn.
HUGE improvement from the start. You should be proud!
Coin Photographer.
Thanks Alex.
I'm learning as I go.
A little at a time.
I appreciate your advice and I do keep it in mind.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
@robec
@messydesk
@FlyingAl
I keep trying to bring out the luster bands but I am having an extremely difficult time doing it. I've moved the coin around under the lights to try to capture it but that doesn't work to well.
The lights are stationary on my copy stand so that may not help.
They are set at 10:00 and 2:00.I am using 100 watt LED lights, maybe they need to be brighter?
I added a third light and this is what I got.
I could use some tips to try to improve on this.
I think I was able to bring out the luster bands on this coin below with no problem. The 1921 is highly reflective which makes me think it's difficult to get the luster bands to show up. I'd like to be able to master that technique if possible.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
I think that photo does a good job of showing lustre. Coins with cameo naturally show less lustre because lustre comes from the metal flow lines and cameo coins fields are smoother because the dies were polished. The only thing you could try doing is changing the lights angle in the vertical (moving them closer/further from the lens or moving them up/down).
Smaller lights, or further lights create narrower lustre bands. Getting them closer or putting a diffuser in front makes the bands wider.
I just think you need to try and balance it more. Try and get a vertical band and a horizontal band to start.
Coin Photographer.
I spent some time playing with the lighting.
Now I just need to learn a little about photoshop so I can draw out some of the details a little better.
This was the end result.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
The first images are looking pretty good. Still work to do, but there's improvement there.
Coin Photographer.
This one is getting close. You can see the texture of the coin (look at Liberty's cheek), die polish lines, and flow lines. The focus is pretty good. The luster bands aren't in the typical location (10 and 2 o'clock) so it looks a little odd to my eye, but sometimes I do that on purpose too. The second photos (of the 1921) are out of focus and aren't sharp.
Keep playing around. You're on the right track.
Nice and sharp. Time to learn about the histogram and what it means. When you shoot a picture, you should be able to see its histogram. A broad curve means high contrast, like the 82-S above. A narrow curve will be lower contrast, like a corroded copper. A histogram crammed up against the left means too much shadow detail lost in black pixels, while crammed up against the right is highlight detail lost in white pixels (again, the 82-S). Look at the histogram to figure out if your images are appropriately exposed. Reduce contrast with diffusion. Increase contrast with harder light. Move the histogram left or right with exposure adjustments. This will be tricker with copper or gold, as the red channel will be shifted farther right than the others.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Working on some images with my new camera.
The histogram is something I’m trying to wrap my head around I’m trying to take nice even images of my coins.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
@Morgan13 you are coming along a lot faster than I did in my journey (which is never-ending!). Your images are really starting to pop! Keep at it!
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Get yourself a Proof Silver Eagle….good place to start and gain confidence….
More practice shots-
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan
I can see much progression and know nothing about imaging coins.
Have been wondering if it is possible to tell cleaning from images alone for some time.
Sounds like a great idea for a new thread!