What do you make of this ?

Hidhoe

The facsimile on the front is eerily similar to the authenticated auto on the back 🤔

🏒🥅🏒🥅🏒🥅🏒🥅🏒🥅🏒🥅🏒🥅🏒🥅

JMS1223

Might be an autopen on the back of a pre-print card. An autopen is a “signature” reproduced by a machine using a real pen. It’s basically a copy of the person’s signature done by a machine hand. These autopens can vary a little (due to shaking) but are largely the same. The autopen can store a few “patterns” (signatures) but in this case I think this individual had one pattern made and decided to use the preprint version of their signature for their autopen pattern.

As for the authentication, those third party authentication companies are not perfect and have been known to make mistakes. I think this is one of those situations. I have seen other examples when they authenticated autopen and even pre-print signatures.

Hidhoe

@JMS1223 said:
Might be an autopen on the back of a pre-print card. An autopen is a “signature” reproduced by a machine using a real pen. It’s basically a copy of the person’s signature done by a machine hand. These autopens can vary a little (due to shaking) but are largely the same. The autopen can store a few “patterns” (signatures) but in this case I think this individual had one pattern made and decided to use the preprint version of their signature for their autopen pattern.

As for the authentication, those third party authentication companies are not perfect and have been known to make mistakes. I think this is one of those situations. I have seen other examples when they authenticated autopen and even pre-print signatures.

My exact thought. Thanks
Hope to hear from others.

Hidhoe

What’s the chances of a guy signing the back of a card almost exactly like the facsimile on the front?

Look how the bottom of the first letter J exactly hooks at the bottom, along with everything else.

JMS1223

@Hidhoe said:
What’s the chances of a guy signing the back of a card almost exactly like the facsimile on the front?

Look how the bottom of the first letter J exactly hooks at the bottom, along with everything else.

As rare as finding a nearly identical snowflake. Next to impossible for it to be authentic if it matches like 95-100%. The only other possibility is a stamped signature.

JMS1223

I just played around with the two scans and they definitely match but the back side autopen has been messed with so the front printed signature and back autopen signature can’t be entirely layered on top of each other. I definitely think it’s autopen and the pen was shaken and moved so the first and last names are on a different plane.

Hidhoe

@JMS1223 said:
I just played around with the two scans and they definitely match but the back side autopen has been messed with so the front printed signature and back autopen signature can’t be entirely layered on top of each other. I definitely think it’s autopen and the pen was shaken and moved so the first and last names are on a different plane.

Thank you. Others believe it to be a stamp. Thanks for your help!

Hidhoe

@JMS1223 said:
I just played around with the two scans and they definitely match but the back side autopen has been messed with so the front printed signature and back autopen signature can’t be entirely layered on top of each other. I definitely think it’s autopen and the pen was shaken and moved so the first and last names are on a different plane.

Your thoughts on this one.
Facsimile on top.
Signature below it.
Looks good to me.
Any concerns ? Thanks

burghman

Tough call with that one - it’s all so “flat” The thing that stands out to me is above the “l” in his typed name - it looks like a zigzag vs. a loop in the facsimile. Totally different motion of the pen. But I’m not a Plante expert (nor an auto authenticator), so what do I know.