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2022 Fake Eagle purchase this past weekend at central NY coin show, the enhanced boob variety?


Sent my brother to find and buy a couple (3 years actually) past date eagles, we set up at the small show too and had a customer request for them back home. He had to shop at couple of tables to find them. I was busy setting up and just tossed them in the brief case. Imagine my surprise when I got home and noticed the funny finish and details on one. Another dealer sold us a fake, quite obvious when looking and comparing later alongside the other two. Think this is one of these 9.99 or 19.99 eagles others have mentioned seeing around ? The edge counterfeit detection mark is in the 2021 spot.

Comments

  • silviosisilviosi Posts: 444 ✭✭✭

    Very nice sample of those counterfaits.

    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE. MARK TWAIN

  • OnastoneOnastone Posts: 3,743 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wonder if the dealer knew he was selling you a fake, or was he oblivious? That's terrible..I think the market is saturated with counterfeits.

  • kevinstangkevinstang Posts: 1,517 ✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2024 8:46AM

    I hope he just got busy and overlooked it when filling his case- he's relatively new to the show- about a year. He does however primarily deal in bullion- and alot of it is foreign silver and gold -which there can be alot of problems with- especially raw. My brother got his phone number and contacted him and his response was that he doesn't buy or sell counterfeit coins. We will see how he deals with it at next months show. So looks like the counterfeit eagles are making it into dealer stock- which is not good for show attendees looking to snatch up some bullion. The regular long term bullion dealer couldn't make the show this month.

  • Project NumismaticsProject Numismatics Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @kevinstang said:
    I hope he just got busy and overlooked it when filling his case- he's relatively new to the show- about a year. He does however primarily deal in bullion- and alot of it is foreign silver and gold -which there can be alot of problems with- especially raw. My brother got his phone number and contacted him and his response was that he doesn't buy or sell counterfeit coins. We will see how he deals with it at next months show. So looks like the counterfeit eagles are making it into dealer stock- which is not good for show attendees looking to snatch up some bullion. The regular long term bullion dealer could make the show this month.

    Nothing quite like the hubris of ruining his reputation over $40.

  • @kevinstang said:
    My brother got his phone number and contacted him and his response was that he doesn't buy or sell counterfeit coins

    This response is highly suspicious. Most dealers would want to make you whole if you claimed to have gotten a counterfeit. "Couldnt be me!" is a non-sense response of the guilty.
    This dealers knows they are ripping people off and will not ever be honest. You should consider contacting the police, I doubt you are the only person to have issues with this dealer.
    There is no upside to not reporting this, it just lets the dealer victimize more people.

    No legitimate dealer would trash their own reputation over a fake $35 coin.

    The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,485 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Okay, now what are the measurements? Weight, diameter, specific gravity or other testing.
    Gotta have facts, coin looks good to my eyes (but what would I know?)

    bob :)
    vegas, baby!

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), [email protected]
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,757 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2024 12:39AM

    Ouch. That's not good. Know the dealer ? I mean : Know your dealer !

  • fluffy155fluffy155 Posts: 220 ✭✭✭✭

    @RiveraFamilyCollect said:

    This response is highly suspicious. Most dealers would want to make you whole if you claimed to have gotten a counterfeit. "Couldnt be me!" is a non-sense response of the guilty.
    This dealers knows they are ripping people off and will not ever be honest.

    I tentatively disagree. From the dealer's perspective he's just a person who bought an eagle, took it home, then later claimed it was counterfeit. These kinds of merchandise swapping scams happen all the time, and if the dealer believes (wrongly in this case) that he only has genuine eagles in his stock then it's reasonable for him to assume a scam.

    Now if the dealer he bought from knows the OP or OP's brother at all then it's a different story, but assuming he doesn't (and also assuming the dealer looked through his remaining stock and found no counterfeits) then the response is reasonable.

  • Project NumismaticsProject Numismatics Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @fluffy155 said:

    @RiveraFamilyCollect said:

    This response is highly suspicious. Most dealers would want to make you whole if you claimed to have gotten a counterfeit. "Couldnt be me!" is a non-sense response of the guilty.
    This dealers knows they are ripping people off and will not ever be honest.

    I tentatively disagree. From the dealer's perspective he's just a person who bought an eagle, took it home, then later claimed it was counterfeit. These kinds of merchandise swapping scams happen all the time, and if the dealer believes (wrongly in this case) that he only has genuine eagles in his stock then it's reasonable for him to assume a scam.

    Now if the dealer he bought from knows the OP or OP's brother at all then it's a different story, but assuming he doesn't (and also assuming the dealer looked through his remaining stock and found no counterfeits) then the response is reasonable.

    Why do you think that "These kinds of merchandise swapping scams happen all the time"? This is a low value coin purchased in-person at a show - I don't think such a scam is all that common.

  • Alot of people come to these shows just to buy silver. Most do not know what they are buying. The organizers should check this out to maintain the integrity of the show. These rumors will spread.

  • fluffy155fluffy155 Posts: 220 ✭✭✭✭

    @Project Numismatics said:
    Why do you think that "These kinds of merchandise swapping scams happen all the time"?

    It's been a while since I worked in retail but when I did it was common, and for the most ridiculously cheap items. Maybe numismatics is a classier set.

  • I would recommend this post be deleted or edited. There is too much information here.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,522 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Jim500 said:
    I would recommend this post be deleted or edited. There is too much information here.

    ?
    Which information is "too much"? I don't see the dealer's name, for example.

  • Headline gave me the show. The post provided enough information for the dealer.

  • ajaanajaan Posts: 17,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Syracuse show?


    DPOTD-3
    'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'

    CU #3245 B.N.A. #428


    Don
  • MizzouMizzou Posts: 463 ✭✭✭✭

    @Jim500 said:
    Headline gave me the show. The post provided enough information for the dealer.

    Sounds like you might be the dealer -

    Sometimes I think that animals are smarter than humans, animals would never allow the dumbest one to lead the pack

  • I am not. I have no skin in the game. I only buy. I have probably bought from the poster. No issues with anyone.

  • rte592rte592 Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Project Numismatics said:

    @fluffy155 said:

    @RiveraFamilyCollect said:

    This response is highly suspicious. Most dealers would want to make you whole if you claimed to have gotten a counterfeit. "Couldnt be me!" is a non-sense response of the guilty.
    This dealers knows they are ripping people off and will not ever be honest.

    I tentatively disagree. From the dealer's perspective he's just a person who bought an eagle, took it home, then later claimed it was counterfeit. These kinds of merchandise swapping scams happen all the time, and if the dealer believes (wrongly in this case) that he only has genuine eagles in his stock then it's reasonable for him to assume a scam.

    Now if the dealer he bought from knows the OP or OP's brother at all then it's a different story, but assuming he doesn't (and also assuming the dealer looked through his remaining stock and found no counterfeits) then the response is reasonable.

    Why do you think that "These kinds of merchandise swapping scams happen all the time"? This is a low value coin purchased in-person at a show - I don't think such a scam is all that common.

    My Dad order 3 eagles from a guy in Canada, the parcel arrived in typical China packaging.
    We checked them out and all fake/ copies.
    He got his money back.
    The dealer may have missed one in bulk.
    When you contacted him by phone he probably just blew you off and figured something was up or you would go away...now let us know how he handles business in person when you see him at the next show.

  • kevinstangkevinstang Posts: 1,517 ✭✭✭

    @AUandAG said:
    Okay, now what are the measurements? Weight, diameter, specific gravity or other testing.
    Gotta have facts, coin looks good to my eyes (but what would I know?)

    bob :)
    vegas, baby!

    Weight is 31.4 grams so only marginally heavy, diameter is 40.1mm. So that is more notable - should be 40.6mm according to Redbook.Finish has an overall grainy appearance, the shape of 2's is off. And as mentioned the anti counterfeiting device on rim is in the 2021 position and not the 2022 position-note the coinis dated 2022.

  • PhillyJoePhillyJoe Posts: 2,675 ✭✭✭✭

    Silver plated?

    The Philadelphia Mint: making coins since 1792. We make money by making money. Now in our 225th year thanks to no competition. image
  • robecrobec Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @kevinstang said:

    @AUandAG said:
    Okay, now what are the measurements? Weight, diameter, specific gravity or other testing.
    Gotta have facts, coin looks good to my eyes (but what would I know?)

    bob :)
    vegas, baby!

    Weight is 31.4 grams so only marginally heavy, diameter is 40.1mm. So that is more notable - should be 40.6mm according to Redbook.Finish has an overall grainy appearance, the shape of 2's is off. And as mentioned the anti counterfeiting device on rim is in the 2021 position and not the 2022 position-note the coinis dated 2022.

    The average or maybe even some of the above average collector doesn’t even know what the anti counterfeiting device on an ASE is let alone what the difference in positions between the 2021 and 2022. Could you please describe this with a little more detail?

  • kevinstangkevinstang Posts: 1,517 ✭✭✭

    @robec said:

    @kevinstang said:

    @AUandAG said:
    Okay, now what are the measurements? Weight, diameter, specific gravity or other testing.
    Gotta have facts, coin looks good to my eyes (but what would I know?)

    bob :)
    vegas, baby!

    Weight is 31.4 grams so only marginally heavy, diameter is 40.1mm. So that is more notable - should be 40.6mm according to Redbook.Finish has an overall grainy appearance, the shape of 2's is off. And as mentioned the anti counterfeiting device on rim is in the 2021 position and not the 2022 position-note the coinis dated 2022.

    The average or maybe even some of the above average collector doesn’t even know what the anti counterfeiting device on an ASE is let alone what the difference in positions between the 2021 and 2022. Could you please describe this with a little more detail?

    I don't want to give anymore info to the counterfeiters to help them. I am sure a quick search of this site or with google would turn up the new changes introduced in mid 2021.

  • robecrobec Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @kevinstang said:

    @robec said:

    @kevinstang said:

    @AUandAG said:
    Okay, now what are the measurements? Weight, diameter, specific gravity or other testing.
    Gotta have facts, coin looks good to my eyes (but what would I know?)

    bob :)
    vegas, baby!

    Weight is 31.4 grams so only marginally heavy, diameter is 40.1mm. So that is more notable - should be 40.6mm according to Redbook.Finish has an overall grainy appearance, the shape of 2's is off. And as mentioned the anti counterfeiting device on rim is in the 2021 position and not the 2022 position-note the coinis dated 2022.

    The average or maybe even some of the above average collector doesn’t even know what the anti counterfeiting device on an ASE is let alone what the difference in positions between the 2021 and 2022. Could you please describe this with a little more detail?

    I don't want to give anymore info to the counterfeiters to help them. I am sure a quick search of this site or with google would turn up the new changes introduced in mid 2021.

    Thank you. I sure hope the counterfeiters don’t know how to do that.

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