Doubled Die, or Machine Doubling?

124Spider

Hi,

In examining my coins carefully to see which ones should be submitted to CAC, the dealer yesterday rejected this XF45 1921-D Mercury dime for that, but found doubling that he suspects is real (die) doubling. He suggested that I submit it to Variety Vista for his opinion.

I thought I'd at least ask for opinions here before bothering James Wiles.

The doubling is around the edge of the obverse. It's particularly strong on the "R," "T" and "Y" of "LIBERTY," but it's also evident on other letters and the date. I see little (or no) sign of doubling on the motto. It appears to be stronger on the right side of the obverse.

Thanks in advance for your input. I apologize a bit for the photo; I don't have a macro lens or a light box, but I do have some skills and excellent equipment for landscape and wildlife photography (which is how the equipment normally is employed).

Mark

PeakRarities

MD because I don't even see a DDO variety that exists for 1921-D.

124Spider

@DeplorableDan said:
MD because I don't even see a DDO variety that exists for 1921-D.

I also didn't see a DDO variety for the 1921-D. But it is possible (however unlikely) that it hasn't been found before, so I'd appreciate an opinion based on what it looks like, not on the fact that nobody else has reported such a thing.

Thanks (and I'm not intending to be snarky).

Manifest_Destiny

MD

ifthevamzarockin

Looks like machine doubling to me.

PeakRarities

@124Spider said:

@DeplorableDan said:
MD because I don't even see a DDO variety that exists for 1921-D.

I also didn't see a DDO variety for the 1921-D. But it is possible (however unlikely) that it hasn't been found before, so I'd appreciate an opinion based on what it looks like, not on the fact that nobody else has reported such a thing.

Thanks (and I'm not intending to be snarky).

Completely understandable, I'm certainly not the expert for that so lets wait for further assistance . It is pretty severe MD, my first impression was ddo for what its worth.

AUandAG

I don't see any split serifs so I'll go with MD. Machine, mechanical, shelf, etc.

bob
vegas, baby!

IkesT

MD

coinkat

Looks as if it was graded by NGC- I suspect if it were a DDO, they would have caught it. To me it looks like machine doubling but it never hurts to share and solicit the thoughts of others. Looks to be a decent 21-D. You can always expand the topic by posting an image of the reverse and the thread can transform into GTG.

sellitstore

The waviness in the doubling, particularly in the "E", "R" and top of "T" tells me machine doubling. A doubled die would have two sharp, straight, repeated impressions without the distortion seen on this coin.

Also, the number of die pairs on keys like this are limited and can often be identified by other markers. I don't know if specific obverse dies for the 21D have been identified but a new die would be very, very unlikely considering how many of this date have been scrutinized.

124Spider

Ok; thanks!

JeffersonFrog

I echo the machine doubling opinion, but it's nice/prominent doubling. There's also a nice die crack down the front neckline. I don't remember who created this picture, but it always helps me with the MD v. DD question.

Crypto

Absolutely MD, @AUandAG nailed it

Interesting LDS that might have played a part in it, note die crack in neck. Really nice coin btw. One of the better dates in the series

Jimnight

MD

silviosi

Looking overal to this coin, I will say it is an Die Deterioration Doubling, which generic it is included in MD.

PS: Hard for me to believe that after 100 years more, a new variety will be find.

OAKSTAR

@ifthevamzarockin said:
Looks like machine doubling to me.

No way! How can you see anything from there? 😉

Sorry, I gotta go. My probation officer is at the door! 🤣

jesbroken

Yes, D³. But I do like the coin very much. It is a bit of an extreme form of the doubling and in a rarer coin. I think you will enjoy owning it and I would expect somewhat of a premium before I would sell it. Might not get it, but hopefully you will not need to sell it at all. Thanks for sharing.
Jim

TomB

You have the coin in-hand, but my first impression is that it is absolutely machine doubling. I realize Variety Vista doesn't have a DD listed for this issue, but I agree with you that one could still be found. After all, we have had at least one new Overton die marriage found by a member of this board and posted here prior to its inclusion, at least one DD Mercury dime discovered in a similar manner by a forum member and at least one prototype Ike dollar, as well.

However, I am curious as to why the dealer thought this 1921-D NGC EF45 should not be sent to CAC. Your image is a bit washed out, and there is only an obverse image, but if it appears in-hand as I interpret it then I would have sent it to CAC.

TomB

@OAKSTAR AND @ifthevamzarockin, what happened with the bars and locked door?

OAKSTAR

@TomB said:
@OAKSTAR AND @ifthevamzarockin, what happened with the bars and locked door?

Someone ratted us out!! There's a Benedict Arnold among us!

ifthevamzarockin

@TomB said:
@OAKSTAR AND @ifthevamzarockin, what happened with the bars and locked door?

I was a bad dog and peed on the carpet.

Manifest_Destiny

Shouldn't you guys be communicating with each other by tapping a spoon.

JWP

@OAKSTAR
@ifthevamzarockin When I was in the Navy, the marines used to give the Brig Rats bug juice and donuts after the captain put them on bread and water rations. Eat and enjoy guys. I forgot to ask - Is emeraldATV locked up in there too.

ifthevamzarockin

Anyone got an extra "get out of jail free" card?

JWP

@ifthevamzarockin You could buy a monopoly game

ifthevamzarockin

@JWP said:
@ifthevamzarockin You could buy a monopoly game

If I have to buy a Monopoly game then it's not free to get out of jail.

Pizzaman

It's from the strike, not the die. The underlying images are too flat to have come from the die. The inferior and superior images would be the same height if they came off the die.

Pizzaman

@JeffersonFrog said:
I echo the machine doubling opinion, but it's nice/prominent doubling. There's also a nice die crack down the front neckline. I don't remember who created this picture, but it always helps me with the MD v. DD question.

"Nice/prominent doubling" that's just the consequence of a sloppy strike. I mean, if that's your thing.

OAKSTAR

@ifthevamzarockin We gotta catch the midnight express outta here!

PeakRarities

@OAKSTAR said:
@ifthevamzarockin We gotta catch the midnight express outta here!

Hang tight, Ill put some money on the books for you both. Enjoy a honey bun or a Slim Jim on me

ifthevamzarockin

@DeplorableDan I thought you were the one that posted my bail... check my cell it's empty.

CRHer700

Why are so many people being locked up or banned?
I’ve been off for a few days, so I don’t know what happened.