LINCOLN CENT MAJOR VARIETIES ARE PART OF SET
Steve
Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭
Some people feel very strongly that we should have a basic Lincoln Cent set registry EXCLUDING all varieties and a second Lincoln Cent set registry INCLUDING all varieties. This second set would really include ALL kinds of varieties as have been discovered thru the years.
I disagree strongly regarding the second set registry. The varieties I would include in this second set would be only the MAJOR recognized varieties such as the 1909s over horizonal s, the 1922 "no D" strong reverse, the 1944 D over S,(Both types), the 1955 Doubled Die, the 1972 Doubled Die, the 1983 Reverse Doubled Die, the 1984 Doubled Die, the 1995 Doubled Die and the 1990 no S Proof. Some of the other extremely rare varieties that are reported in the Red Book I could accept, but I don't think should be included because very few Lincoln Cent collectors actually would collect them in my opinion. (1917 & 1936 doubled die, 1943 & 1944 off metal varieties,1946 S over D, 1969s doubled die. The major varieties should be part of a complete Lincoln Cent set registry because, although some of the coins are expensive, they are reasonably attainable thru dealers or auction.
I would be in favor of a third ALL variety set registry which could allow for all the Wexler,Fivaz, and other listed coins. I have no problem with people who collect varieties or don't collect varieties. Everyone should collect what they want. But when we develop PCGS Set Registries, they should be well thought out. The dates included in each of the above registries could be the subject of another thread. Same thing for the Proofs versus Business Strike.
Anyway, I would appreciate what all the other Lincoln Cent collectors on the board think about this as it relates to the set registries for Lincoln Cents. Remember, PCGS has said it is a work in progress, which means it can be changed over the next year or so. Thanks for reading. Steve
I disagree strongly regarding the second set registry. The varieties I would include in this second set would be only the MAJOR recognized varieties such as the 1909s over horizonal s, the 1922 "no D" strong reverse, the 1944 D over S,(Both types), the 1955 Doubled Die, the 1972 Doubled Die, the 1983 Reverse Doubled Die, the 1984 Doubled Die, the 1995 Doubled Die and the 1990 no S Proof. Some of the other extremely rare varieties that are reported in the Red Book I could accept, but I don't think should be included because very few Lincoln Cent collectors actually would collect them in my opinion. (1917 & 1936 doubled die, 1943 & 1944 off metal varieties,1946 S over D, 1969s doubled die. The major varieties should be part of a complete Lincoln Cent set registry because, although some of the coins are expensive, they are reasonably attainable thru dealers or auction.
I would be in favor of a third ALL variety set registry which could allow for all the Wexler,Fivaz, and other listed coins. I have no problem with people who collect varieties or don't collect varieties. Everyone should collect what they want. But when we develop PCGS Set Registries, they should be well thought out. The dates included in each of the above registries could be the subject of another thread. Same thing for the Proofs versus Business Strike.
Anyway, I would appreciate what all the other Lincoln Cent collectors on the board think about this as it relates to the set registries for Lincoln Cents. Remember, PCGS has said it is a work in progress, which means it can be changed over the next year or so. Thanks for reading. Steve
0
Comments
You sound confused about what you collect,what Spooly collects and what everyone else collects.The set registry with varieties has been composed by Mr. David Hall with what he thinks is well known.David Hall stopped collecting Lincoln cents around 1990.I know because I bought many of the coins in his collection.I believe David to be a bit of a dinosaur regarding present day collecting habits.
If PCGS recognizes a variety,then why not include it in a set registry with varieties.From my experience,the longer and more complete your collection gets,the more varieties you will collect.I disagree with you in that an off metal cent is a variety (ie. 1944 steel, 1943 copper).
In the 1909-1958 set, I would like to see included 1909 vdb ddo,1917 ddo,1922 no D strong reverse,1936 ddo type 1 strong doubling,1941 ddo,1943 D/D strong,1944 D/s variety 1 where the S is north of the D, the 1955 ddo and the 1958 ddo.
In the 1959- date set or the memorial set, I would like to see included in the set, the following coins, 1960 large and small dates,the 1960 D lg./sm date,1969 s ddo,1970 s ddo,1972 ddo,1983 ddr,1984 ddo and the 1995 ddo.
In the proof memorial set I want the 1971 ddo and the 1990 no s included with the 1979 and 1981 type 1 and 2 and the 1970 large and small dates and the 1960 lg/sm date and the 1960sm/lg date.
Steve, How long have you been collecting?
Stewart Blay
Now I do like the news that PCGS is going to start to "attribute" the varities on the holds, because it will be popular with the variety collectors. (great for the hoddy.... not really me)
The only passion I have is for the traditional date and mint mark copper coins. (Large cents, Lincolns ect..) (I like "types"..... Large date, Small date.. ect..)
My major point is this:
85 Lincoln sets
16 Lincoln Variety Sets
There are more traditional collectors than variety collectors.... thus 2 sets to make both types of collectors happy. (makes sense to me)
Now what goes "in" the variety sets....... that needs to be debated here on the forums, I will be happy to give opinion if the issue comes up. The best input will come from collectors with these sets.
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
Ray
I know there are two major camps those that think they do belong and those that don't want them. The registry will never make all parties happy, therefore I collect what I want. I have many varieties that PCGS doesn't recognize and that's fine by me. If they include the coins and you can add them in the future that would be fine too. I would even be happy with just a Lincoln varieity registry. That would be a challenge!
Part of the problem is what do you include? Off metals? mules (ie59 memorial wheat)? Redbook 1980 varieities? varities identified as Unique? Varieities listed in Wagon's "A quick reference to the top Lincoln Cent Die varieities"? Cherrypickers?
I vote for
Regular
Variety only
and a composite made up with both
What ever happens, I will still collect the varieties even if they are never posted in a registry.
Rich
Second, thank you very much Stewart for posting your thoughts regarding varieties of Lincoln Cents for the PCGS Set Registry. I note the coins you list and agree with most of them, but I find some disagreement. What that tells me is that we each have our own collecting habits and it will be very hard to get agreement from everyone. I have been collecting solely Lincoln Cents since 1983. I now have what I consider to be a "complete set". Obviously, for me, most of my Lincolns are not slabbed, but 56 of my most valuable are slabbed by PCGS. I note that Stewart includes the 1960 large/small date as part of the variety set. Others might include these coins as part of the basic set because it was a mint authorized "type" change and not a "variety error".
I guess my overall point in posting this thread is that we should have a varieties set included with the basic set as part of the registry. That being the case, we need to define exactly which coins should be included IF the desire of everyone is to eventually strive toward completion. (100%) From reading Stewart's reply above, I now wonder if we can come to a consencious because I know some of those doubled dies he lists like the 1958dd and 1971dd I would not include in my set. Maybe others can chime in with their opinions.
As a Lincoln Cent collector, I want to thank Stewart Blay for his comments on this thread and I believe everyone would appreciate his future comments. Also, Stewart, you would make all of us very happy if you would allow viewing of your fabulous Lincoln Cent collections. Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
In reading your reply it seems like you could live with not getting to the 100% completion for the variety set. As you know, there are hundreds of these varieties in the Lincoln series and nobody can collect them all. I have always set goals for "completion" and although I agree that overtime that goal will increase (new year dates add each year) the idea of not having some sort of definative total to strive for makes the chase less enjoyable for me. Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
The only way to get Lincoln cent varieties in the set registry is to e-mail David Hall at dh@collectors.com.The only way to get a variety recognized by PCGS is to e-mail Rick Montgomery.Both these men are very busy........so don't waste their time
Steve- I will exhibit my set in 2009,the 100th anniversary of the Lincoln Cent
I enjoy collecting the 1960 d lg/sm date and the 1960 d sm/lg date.Which came first,the sm/lg or the lg/sm ?
I also like the proof lg/sm and the sm/lg
The 1958 double die obverse is a fantasy coin as there is only one certified and one other uncertified.I was informed both pieces came out of the same mint sewn bag.I don't own either and have never seen one but the photo in the red book shows dramatic doubling.
Stewart
With respect to variety recognition, it seems that NGC is designated a set of recognized variety sources (example being FS), it doesn't seem that major of an issue.
keoj
Excellent choices on what to include in "proper" variety sets...although you seem to have left out the 70-S sm/lg varieties; just an oversight, right?
Do you know of anywhere online to see an image of the 58DDO or is the redbook the only place to see it that you know of?
RELLA
who boasts of twenty years experience in his craft
while in fact he has had only one year of experience...
twenty times.
Steve, I believe Stewart wants both the 1960 Large over Small date and Small over Large date doubled varieties, not the undoubled Large dates and Small dates that belong in the basic set.
I've long since emailed my suggestions for the Lincoln varieties. I'd at least like the rest of the recognized varieties to be optional, so we can at least list them if we have em.
perfectstrike
I'm going to stop here because I know this can never be agreed to by everyone. What constitutes a COMPLETE set of Lincoln Cents? Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
I do not believe everything in the Kevin Flynn and John Wexler book should be included in the set registry. Previously, a criteria for getting a variety recognized by PCGS was if the value was worth substantially more money. A 1922 no d weak reverse was occasionally touted as the real McCoy and this is most probably the main reason it is not included in the present set registry.
I do collect some esoteric varieties. I bought a 1910 s/s from the Eliasberg collection that graded ms 66 r/b for .......$1,000. The 1925s/s in my set is graded ms 65 red
The only place, I know,
to see the 1958 ddo is in the red book
Stewart Blay
Probably the best place to see the 1958DDO is in the authoritative reference on Lincoln Cents. Its the big blue book with the 1974 Al cent on the cover.