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Are these old PCI holders worth anything?

MizzouMizzou Posts: 463 ✭✭✭✭



I started to crack them out of the holders but wanted to make sure that the holders weren't worth more than the coins.

Sometimes I think that animals are smarter than humans, animals would never allow the dumbest one to lead the pack

Comments

  • TomBTomB Posts: 20,601 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In my experience, when PCI moved from their green-trimmed inserts to the later gold-trimmed inserts the following for the company dropped dramatically. Could it be then that the gold-trimmed inserts are more scarce? Perhaps, but I don't know of anyone who actively seeks them out.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 22,824 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TomB said:
    In my experience, when PCI moved from their green-trimmed inserts to the later gold-trimmed inserts the following for the company dropped dramatically. Could it be then that the gold-trimmed inserts are more scarce? Perhaps, but I don't know of anyone who actively seeks them out.

    There was actually a time when even the green-trimmed inserts had little value. It is the much earlier green-trimmed slabs (with the extended dash between the date and mintmark on the insert and the difference in font of the "g" and the "4").
    Even then, it isn't so much the slab is worth more, only that the potential of the coin within is worth more.

    peacockcoins

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,051 ✭✭✭✭✭

    These are great for cracking!

  • RampageRampage Posts: 9,411 ✭✭✭✭

    I have had great luck crossing some of those over to PCGS. I crack them first, then submit them. Like any slab, buy the coin and not the holder. Do not discount those slabs because that is what others tell you to do. Look at the coin and judge for yourself.

  • REALGATORREALGATOR Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No value for the holder as a collectible.

  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,613 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Most slab collectors that I know have little interest in paying any significant premium for the gold PCI holders unless the coin itself is special.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • MizzouMizzou Posts: 463 ✭✭✭✭

    @Rampage said:
    I have had great luck crossing some of those over to PCGS. I crack them first, then submit them. Like any slab, buy the coin and not the holder. Do not discount those slabs because that is what others tell you to do. Look at the coin and judge for yourself.

    You may be right about that. The spots that you see in the picture are on the plastic, not the coin. I don't know if it would grade MS65 but it's pretty nice.

    Sometimes I think that animals are smarter than humans, animals would never allow the dumbest one to lead the pack

  • silviosisilviosi Posts: 444 ✭✭✭
    edited January 20, 2024 7:30PM

    Slabs collecting it is another word. I have some Hockey card slab by unknow lost compagny and on sell I had more for slabs then the cards. The market allways will move as the wind.

    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE. MARK TWAIN

  • Married2CoinsMarried2Coins Posts: 128 ✭✭✭

    @REALGATOR said:
    No value for the holder as a collectible.

    LOL, NONSENSE! IMO, that coin is virtually worthless to an advanced collector. Additionally, it is probably overgraded. Perhaps five star members would snub their nose at a 1909 VDB 1c in MS-62 Red also. Nevertheless, in that slab it is a collectable to a different and growing segment of our hobby. I have seen a thread about old slabs and their history on several forums.

  • silviosisilviosi Posts: 444 ✭✭✭

    @REALGATOR said:
    No value for the holder as a collectible.

    Sell me a scrap coin in ANACS, PCGS or NGC first slab and you has your premium. We has a Deal????

    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE. MARK TWAIN

  • REALGATORREALGATOR Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Married2Coins said:

    @REALGATOR said:
    No value for the holder as a collectible.

    LOL, NONSENSE! IMO, that coin is virtually worthless to an advanced collector. Additionally, it is probably overgraded. Perhaps five star members would snub their nose at a 1909 VDB 1c in MS-62 Red also. Nevertheless, in that slab it is a collectable to a different and growing segment of our hobby. I have seen a thread about old slabs and their history on several forums.

    Maybe, but I have bought several coins in these holders for the same as if the coin were raw. In OP case, the MS65 Franklin could probably be bought for the price of a generic raw Unc. You get the bonus of the coin being authenticated. That being said, the value in the holder comes from finding them when the coin has numismatic value and can be crossed to PCGS or NGC usually at a lower grade. But without a story for the coin inside, I still maintain the holder has no value or some nominal value that probably wouldn't be worth the time thinking about.

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,662 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I look at all the green labeled PCIs is see. After 20+ years, the slab usually induced some sort of toning. Some is attractive and some is not.

  • Married2CoinsMarried2Coins Posts: 128 ✭✭✭

    @REALGATOR said:

    @Married2Coins said:

    @REALGATOR said:
    No value for the holder as a collectible.

    LOL, NONSENSE! IMO, that coin is virtually worthless to an advanced collector. Additionally, it is probably overgraded. Perhaps five star members would snub their nose at a 1909 VDB 1c in MS-62 Red also. Nevertheless, in that slab it is a collectable to a different and growing segment of our hobby. I have seen a thread about old slabs and their history on several forums.

    Maybe, but I have bought several coins in these holders for the same as if the coin were raw. In OP case, the MS65 Franklin could probably be bought for the price of a generic raw Unc. You get the bonus of the coin being authenticated. That being said, the value in the holder comes from finding them when the coin has numismatic value and can be crossed to PCGS or NGC usually at a lower grade. But without a story for the coin inside, I still maintain the holder has no value or some nominal value that probably wouldn't be worth the time thinking about.

    As I wrote before, some of us collect the obsolete slabs from companies that are no longer in business. Sample slabs are part of it. Usually, any coin worth much has already been rempved leaving stuff like shown above. Years from now, the value of that coin in the original slab will be worth more than the raw coin. I hope you continue to crack old holders, It will speed up the process for some of the "bottom feeders" such as myself.

  • DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have never heard anyone try to claim that PCI slabs are "collectibles". Any person i've ever talked to agrees that they are completely worthless, and you have to buy them as raw. They also have been known to ruin the coins inside, which makes them even more worthless as collectibles.

  • oldabeintxoldabeintx Posts: 1,564 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So, the holder may or may not be of interest to those who collect older holders. Of near certainty the Franklin isn't worth cracking out unless one wants to put it in an album or keep it from deteriorating. Perhaps either do nothing or let the market decide - sell it as is. I don't collect slabs, but I find the slab slightly more interesting than the coin.

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,427 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 22, 2024 5:41PM

    Just price your PCI at CPG but it’s unlikely they will pay the money for them. Have had some (out early on) got upgraded banked well but that party over. Start at CPG Mkt, ramp price down over a few months. While I do well with inexpensive raw coins my view of any PCI at this point in time have had cross to our hosts at whatever or just start them on the bay at 99c (not recommended). A couple guys in coin club have crossed PCI circ gold to higher grades with various TPG. When they came first came out Mike (both dealers) and myself felt the circ gold we sent in was undergraded by PCI. We got equal or higher grades with other TPG. After that sent nothing in to PCI nor chasing their material unless flip 4 more breakaway w higher grade like I did on a 1909-O $5 XF45 bought from vest pocket trader to AU 5O somewhere else banked well around 15 yr ago. I did get all the money on a PCI $2.50 MS63 Indian flipped on eBay about 14-18 yr ago. Ditto on a PCI Ms64 California picked up from estate about 10-12 yrs ago. Don’t let somebody’s BS Buffalo you into giving it away for (holder game) chump change. At least see what you can cross it for if can’t sell it at your price.

    The few CACG recruits have do feel a couple could upgrade (seem undergraded to me) elsewhere but don’t know how many times send in / needed if even upgrade at all. Thats a game for big ticket recruits. Stuff like where current grade non CAC CPG 1200 and grade up non CAC MV 3300. Bobby plays that game / banked big time one year (natl champ level) got new car. Picked off some got good results.

    Coins & Currency both US and World
  • privatecoinprivatecoin Posts: 3,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @davewesen said:
    I look at all the green labeled PCIs is see. After 20+ years, the slab usually induced some sort of toning. Some is attractive and some is not.

    Me too. But all i cracked and submitted came back QC.

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,427 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 22, 2024 5:43PM

    Yes condition / TPG upgrade not only angle one can work.

    Coins & Currency both US and World
  • Married2CoinsMarried2Coins Posts: 128 ✭✭✭

    @REALGATOR said:

    @Married2Coins said:

    @REALGATOR said:
    No value for the holder as a collectible.

    LOL, NONSENSE! IMO, that coin is virtually worthless to an advanced collector. Additionally, it is probably overgraded. Perhaps five star members would snub their nose at a 1909 VDB 1c in MS-62 Red also. Nevertheless, in that slab it is a collectable to a different and growing segment of our hobby. I have seen a thread about old slabs and their history on several forums.

    Maybe, but I have bought several coins in these holders for the same as if the coin were raw. In OP case, the MS65 Franklin could probably be bought for the price of a generic raw Unc. You get the bonus of the coin being authenticated. That being said, the value in the holder comes from finding them when the coin has numismatic value and can be crossed to PCGS or NGC usually at a lower grade. But without a story for the coin inside, I still maintain the holder has no value or some nominal value that probably wouldn't be worth the time thinking about.

    This is exactly what I would expect to read from a COIN DEALER so I'm going to guess you are one. Dealers and collectors are different animals. You should read the thread about old slabs and the excitment they generate for us coin nerds. I guess what I have written (because it is a proven fact) has fallen on blind eyes. So be it. To each his own makes the world co around. I still say some slabs are worth more to some collectors than the coin they contain. Therefore it follows that the more historical slabs dealers destroy makes yhem less less common.

  • Married2CoinsMarried2Coins Posts: 128 ✭✭✭

    @DeplorableDan said:
    I have never heard anyone try to claim that PCI slabs are "collectibles". Any person i've ever talked to agrees that they are completely worthless, and you have to buy them as raw. They also have been known to ruin the coins inside, which makes them even more worthless as collectibles.

    What about a Hallmark (pre-PCI) slab? I'll bet a Hallmark slabbed 1881-S in MS-63 would bring more money on Ebay than an identical coin in a PCGS slab. I for one would prefer the Hallmark item.

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A local dealer had a bunch of high grade Morgan dollars, MS66 and 67 in PCI old green holders that looked off by a grade recently. Overgraded coins fool no one.

  • Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 684 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It should always be buy the coin and not the holder.
    PCI grading was sued in court for I believe 2 million dollars under the RICO statue.
    A simple Google search should bring up some information.

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars

  • REALGATORREALGATOR Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2024 4:47AM

    @Married2Coins said:

    This is exactly what I would expect to read from a COIN DEALER so I'm going to guess you are one. Dealers and collectors are different animals. You should read the thread about old slabs and the excitment they generate for us coin nerds. I guess what I have written (because it is a proven fact) has fallen on blind eyes. So be it. To each his own makes the world co around. I still say some slabs are worth more to some collectors than the coin they contain. Therefore it follows that the more historical slabs dealers destroy makes yhem less less common.

    I am glad you enjoy the hunt for slabs but....
    I occasionally buy and sell when I see an opportunity on the 'net. However, I am not a dealer. I offer those or items that no longer fit in my collection on the BST forum. Actually, right now I am slowly putting together a set of Buffalo Nickels. Its taking forever since I want the set to include all grades from G4 to MS67. I think that makes me a collector.

  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The problem with Hallmark is they drove themselves into bankruptcy. So while they might have been a reasonable grader, they were not business people.

    PCI (PCCI) bought the small slab assets from the bankruptcy auction, stopped using the photo slabs and something called PCI continued to use the slabs until a few years ago.

    The problem with PCI is they run the range from conservative (by today's standards) ANA standards grading - the early green label, through somewhat looser (later green labels) to garbage grading (gold box) and then through various other hands, some good (DLRC/Dominion) and some outright fraudulent (Anthony Dellauniversita).

    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Married2Coins said:

    @DeplorableDan said:
    I have never heard anyone try to claim that PCI slabs are "collectibles". Any person i've ever talked to agrees that they are completely worthless, and you have to buy them as raw. They also have been known to ruin the coins inside, which makes them even more worthless as collectibles.

    What about a Hallmark (pre-PCI) slab? I'll bet a Hallmark slabbed 1881-S in MS-63 would bring more money on Ebay than an identical coin in a PCGS slab. I for one would prefer the Hallmark item.

    Hallmark yes, I know a couple of guys that go out of their way to find those. They had a much better reputation of conservative grading.

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,277 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Morgan13 said:
    It should always be buy the coin and not the holder.
    PCI grading was sued in court for I believe 2 million dollars under the RICO statue.
    A simple Google search should bring up some information.

    Always? You do realize that there are people that spend more on the plastic than on the coin, in certain cases, right? Not in this case, obviously, but have you heard of the NGC black slabs? PCGS doilies (and others)? There are folks on the forum here that go after certain holders, regardless of the coin inside many times.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • RobertScotLoverRobertScotLover Posts: 505 ✭✭✭✭

    PCI=0

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,427 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Would recommend not fool with either.

    Coins & Currency both US and World
  • @Bochiman said:

    @Morgan13 said:
    It should always be buy the coin and not the holder.
    PCI grading was sued in court for I believe 2 million dollars under the RICO statue.
    A simple Google search should bring up some information.

    Always? You do realize that there are people that spend more on the plastic than on the coin, in certain cases, right? Not in this case, obviously, but have you heard of the NGC black slabs? PCGS doilies (and others)? There are folks on the forum here that go after certain holders, regardless of the coin inside many times.

    Or regency holders. Old Holder collecting is huge, tho big premiums mostly pertain to pcgs and ngc, maybe old anacs. Some of the old sealed flips might, like david hall's, but i'd get the coin out of the pvc, potentially submit to pcgs, if worthy, and keep old holder label with it. With PCI toning coins, i'd prob consider removing those too, because even if some toning from them is pleasing, some is ugly. Keep the old label with it. Much like people keeping provenance via previous owner's envelopes & auction house inserts, mostly in raw coins (still actively done in UK), some coins may gather an interesting history with the prior holder labels retained.

  • Married2CoinsMarried2Coins Posts: 128 ✭✭✭

    @REALGATOR said:

    @Married2Coins said:

    This is exactly what I would expect to read from a COIN DEALER so I'm going to guess you are one. Dealers and collectors are different animals. You should read the thread about old slabs and the excitment they generate for us coin nerds. I guess what I have written (because it is a proven fact) has fallen on blind eyes. So be it. To each his own makes the world co around. I still say some slabs are worth more to some collectors than the coin they contain. Therefore it follows that the more historical slabs dealers destroy makes yhem less less common.

    I am glad you enjoy the hunt for slabs but....
    I occasionally buy and sell when I see an opportunity on the 'net. However, I am not a dealer. I offer those or items that no longer fit in my collection on the BST forum. Actually, right now I am slowly putting together a set of Buffalo Nickels. Its taking forever since I want the set to include all grades from G4 to MS67. I think that makes me a collector.

    That would be some set. I don't think some dates exist in 67 or even 66!

  • Married2CoinsMarried2Coins Posts: 128 ✭✭✭

    @BStrauss3 said:
    The problem with Hallmark is they drove themselves into bankruptcy. So while they might have been a reasonable grader, they were not business people.

    PCI (PCCI) bought the small slab assets from the bankruptcy auction, stopped using the photo slabs and something called PCI continued to use the slabs until a few years ago.

    The problem with PCI is they run the range from conservative (by today's standards) ANA standards grading - the early green label, through somewhat looser (later green labels) to garbage grading (gold box) and then through various other hands, some good (DLRC/Dominion) and some outright fraudulent (Anthony Dellauniversita).

    I was at a show and saw sever dollers graded MS-66 in the plue labe PCI slab. The coins were 63 at best!

  • Married2CoinsMarried2Coins Posts: 128 ✭✭✭

    @SilverAge3 said:

    @Bochiman said:

    @Morgan13 said:
    It should always be buy the coin and not the holder.
    PCI grading was sued in court for I believe 2 million dollars under the RICO statue.
    A simple Google search should bring up some information.

    Always? You do realize that there are people that spend more on the plastic than on the coin, in certain cases, right? Not in this case, obviously, but have you heard of the NGC black slabs? PCGS doilies (and others)? There are folks on the forum here that go after certain holders, regardless of the coin inside many times.

    Or regency holders. Old Holder collecting is huge, tho big premiums mostly pertain to pcgs and ngc, maybe old anacs. Some of the old sealed flips might, like david hall's, but i'd get the coin out of the pvc, potentially submit to pcgs, if worthy, and keep old holder label with it. With PCI toning coins, i'd prob consider removing those too, because even if some toning from them is pleasing, some is ugly. Keep the old label with it. Much like people keeping provenance via previous owner's envelopes & auction house inserts, mostly in raw coins (still actively done in UK), some coins may gather an interesting history with the prior holder labels retained.

    I tink that once a coin is cracked out of a slab, it is considered raw. Therefore it does not matter what label is kept with it.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,186 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Married2Coins said:

    @SilverAge3 said:

    @Bochiman said:

    @Morgan13 said:
    It should always be buy the coin and not the holder.
    PCI grading was sued in court for I believe 2 million dollars under the RICO statue.
    A simple Google search should bring up some information.

    Always? You do realize that there are people that spend more on the plastic than on the coin, in certain cases, right? Not in this case, obviously, but have you heard of the NGC black slabs? PCGS doilies (and others)? There are folks on the forum here that go after certain holders, regardless of the coin inside many times.

    Or regency holders. Old Holder collecting is huge, tho big premiums mostly pertain to pcgs and ngc, maybe old anacs. Some of the old sealed flips might, like david hall's, but i'd get the coin out of the pvc, potentially submit to pcgs, if worthy, and keep old holder label with it. With PCI toning coins, i'd prob consider removing those too, because even if some toning from them is pleasing, some is ugly. Keep the old label with it. Much like people keeping provenance via previous owner's envelopes & auction house inserts, mostly in raw coins (still actively done in UK), some coins may gather an interesting history with the prior holder labels retained.

    I tink that once a coin is cracked out of a slab, it is considered raw.

    Some coins are considered to be raw if they are in the wrong slab.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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