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Mildly interesting spiral pattern on these 1881-A 1 Marks

I was the winning bidder on an MS66 1881-A 1 Mark at Stack's yesterday. I found it interesting that it has the same spiral pattern as my MS64 1881-A 1 Mark that it is replacing. I'm not positive if I have it on any of my other "A" mintmark 1 Marks of the same type. It must be a by-product of how the planchets were prepared during minting, although I couldn't say with certainty which step.

The MS-66:

The MS-64:

IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me

Comments

  • RexfordRexford Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 17, 2024 5:30PM

    Edit: actually, they don’t look like lathe lines. They’re similar to the planchet rings commonly found on ZAR South African coinage, which was also produced on Berlin mint machinery. This characteristic can be found on various types struck with Berlin mint machinery and is a remnant of some part of their planchet production process, though I’m also unsure exactly which step.

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,825 ✭✭✭✭✭

    you got that at a good price :)

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  • neildrobertsonneildrobertson Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bidask said:
    you got that at a good price :)

    The auction market is starting to have some deals. I won a couple in Stack's past two world auctions. It makes me wonder if 2019 is returning.

    IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
    "Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me

  • That is a curious pattern and not something I have seen (or noticed) before.

    I wonder if the pattern could relate to operation of a knurling machine. My understanding is the raw planchets would have passed through this machine to compress and smooth the edge prior to embossing.

    Whether the frictional forces involved in this process were sufficient to mark the planchet is questionable. Yet I can’t think of any other process where the planchet would have been rotated under sufficient force in a manner to produce these semi-concentric rings.

    Stunning coin regardless!

  • Of possible interest - the 4th edition of Meyers Lexikon (German encyclopedia published 1884-90) provides a general overview of the contemporary minting process and illustrates some of the machines used. Its viewable online both in scanned and text-only formats (which greatly aids online translation): https://www.retrobibliothek.de/retrobib/seite.html?id=111607

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,683 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think the lines are from the die as I do not see any remnants on the struck coin devices.

  • neildrobertsonneildrobertson Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @davewesen said:
    I think the lines are from the die as I do not see any remnants on the struck coin devices.

    It seems like it is on the 1 here:

    IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
    "Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,683 ✭✭✭✭✭

    yep, I can see it on that blow up

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,681 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 20, 2024 4:28AM

    Could be die polish. This is one reason I like to use a high powered glass and a microscope.

    edited to add- look for the raised lines. Imperial German coinage is known for die polish- as is the coinage from the years of the Weimar Republic

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • neildrobertsonneildrobertson Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Usually any roughness on the planchet gets obliterated during striking, especially in the fields.

    IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
    "Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me

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