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How much would gold be manipulated if the US or BRICs went on a gold standard?

cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,489 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited January 17, 2024 12:14PM in Precious Metals

The gold market is small relative to many other assets and mostly tightly held (central banks) making it relatively illiquid. Some folk already believe gold is highly manipulated, but suppose the US, or BRICS, went on gold standard, couldn't/wouldn't that open the door for manipulation either by other cental banks that.may want to destroy anothers' economy or by deep pocketed political adversaries, or even by a bunch or wealthy malcontents?

What sort of Pandoras Box could be opened?

Excuses are tools of the ignorant

Knowledge is the enemy of fear

Comments

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Gold was money 6,000 years ago and it will be money 6,000 years from now. Manipulators they come and go. Praise the Metal of Kings. RGDS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,263 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Imagine a world where only a few well-connected bankers & politicians control the world’s “reserve currency” and where these select few elitists can withhold credit from whomever they wish………….

    Imagine if those select few wanted your family to eat bugs, own nothing and be happy about it.

    What’s your definition of “manipulation”?

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,489 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    Imagine a world where only a few well-connected bankers & politicians control the world’s “reserve currency” and where these select few elitists can withhold credit from whomever they wish………….

    Imagine if those select few wanted your family to eat bugs, own nothing and be happy about it.

    What’s your definition of “manipulation”?

    Suppose the US decided to back the dollar with gold. What's to stop China from pushing the price higher or lower which would create massive economic shock.

    Or you think that would not happen?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • I would prefer to see the USA adopt gold as a parallel currency.

    Yelling at clouds on pmbug.com

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,748 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's malleable. You tell me !

  • tincuptincup Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:
    The gold market is small relative to many other assets and mostly tightly held (central banks) making it relatively illiquid. Some folk already believe gold is highly manipulated, but suppose the US, or BRICS, went on gold standard, couldn't/wouldn't that open the door for manipulation either by other cental banks that.may want to destroy anothers' economy or by deep pocketed political adversaries, or even by a bunch or wealthy malcontents?

    What sort of Pandoras Box could be opened?

    You mean it would be worse than the games and manipulations that are taking place today?! I doubt it.... ....but what do I know?

    Gold... (AND SILVER) ..... in hand...... is not easy for others to manipulate. Yes, perhaps the stated 'price' may be manipulated, but many have suspicions of that price and act accordingly. We see that in the premiums applied in the real world.

    ----- kj
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,263 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Suppose the US decided to back the dollar with gold. What's to stop China from pushing the price higher or lower which would create massive economic shock.

    Or you think that would not happen?

    Neither China, nor or the US, nor Russia, nor the EU - have the ability to “poof” gold into existence out of thin air.

    They ALL have the ability to create their own currencies out of thin air and to manipulate markets with funny money.

    If there’s going to be a massive economic shock, it will likely be because of the dollar’s gross mismanagement and a subsequent uncontrollable debt implosion - courtesy of the corrupt banking system & bought politicians.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,489 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    Suppose the US decided to back the dollar with gold. What's to stop China from pushing the price higher or lower which would create massive economic shock.

    Or you think that would not happen?

    Neither China, nor or the US, nor Russia, nor the EU - have the ability to “poof” gold into existence out of thin air.

    They ALL have the ability to create their own currencies out of thin air and to manipulate markets with funny money.

    If there’s going to be a massive economic shock, it will likely be because of the dollar’s gross mismanagement and a subsequent uncontrollable debt implosion - courtesy of the corrupt banking system & bought politicians.

    So you don't think the value of gold could be manipulated by any govt or group?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,489 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tincup said:

    @cohodk said:
    The gold market is small relative to many other assets and mostly tightly held (central banks) making it relatively illiquid. Some folk already believe gold is highly manipulated, but suppose the US, or BRICS, went on gold standard, couldn't/wouldn't that open the door for manipulation either by other cental banks that.may want to destroy anothers' economy or by deep pocketed political adversaries, or even by a bunch or wealthy malcontents?

    What sort of Pandoras Box could be opened?

    You mean it would be worse than the games and manipulations that are taking place today?! I doubt it.... ....but what do I know?

    Is the oil market manipulated?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,489 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    Suppose the US decided to back the dollar with gold. What's to stop China from pushing the price higher or lower which would create massive economic shock.

    Or you think that would not happen?

    Neither China, nor or the US, nor Russia, nor the EU - have the ability to “poof” gold into existence out of thin air.

    Suppose the USA said gold was worth $2000/ounce, but China said it was worth 200,000 yuan. Would there be a flight of gold from one country to another? Would this impact those countries respective economies? What could those impacts be? Has the problem of fiscal or monetary "mismanagement" been solved?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,010 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The US will never back the dollar with gold. The FED will provide them with all the dollars they can spend. And the good news is the FED creates them out of thin air. Their only cost is inflation.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2024 7:36AM

    @jmski52 said:
    Imagine a world where only a few well-connected bankers & politicians control the world’s “reserve currency” and >where these select few elitists can withhold credit from whomever they wish………….

    I guess we can imagine it, because it's BS right now. :D

    Imagine if those select few wanted your family to eat bugs, own nothing and be happy about it.

    Ditto. :)

    What’s your definition of “manipulation”?

    What's YOURS ? You cut-and-past financial nonsense from conspiracy websites from folks with lousy track records in making predictions and/or managing money. :D

  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:
    Suppose the USA said gold was worth $2000/ounce, but China said it was worth 200,000 yuan. Would there be a >flight of gold from one country to another? Would this impact those countries respective economies? What could >those impacts be? Has the problem of fiscal or monetary "mismanagement" been solved?

    It's not happening because no country will give up control of their central bank, with the exception of Europeans who have the ECB (which I guess technically is still "their" CB).

    Most of the BRIC and other anti-dollar crowd also have capital controls and controlled exchange rates so they woulld -- COULD -- NEVER allow market forces to dictate certain aspects of their monetary policy.

    Ergo, they can NOT control the price of gold, too. :)

  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    The US will never back the dollar with gold. The FED will provide them with all the dollars they can spend. And the >good news is the FED creates them out of thin air. Their only cost is inflation.

    You don't need to back the dollar with gold to get whatever benefits you think a gold standard or gold exchange standard would provide.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,489 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GoldFinger1969 said:

    Most of the BRIC and other anti-dollar crowd also have capital controls and controlled exchange rates so they woulld -- COULD -- NEVER allow market forces to dictate certain aspects of their monetary policy.

    Ergo, they can NOT control the price of gold, too. :)

    Yes. And now we understand the point of the opening question.

    This is why the UAE pegs their currency to the US Dollar, and not oil. I wanted those who think pegging to gold is a "cure all" to try to think beyond the internet drivel they fervently consume.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,010 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GoldFinger1969 said:

    @derryb said:
    The US will never back the dollar with gold. The FED will provide them with all the dollars they can spend. And the >good news is the FED creates them out of thin air. Their only cost is inflation.

    You don't need to back the dollar with gold to get whatever benefits you think a gold standard or gold exchange standard would provide.

    backing the dollar would put restraint on money printing. I consider that a major benefit.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GoldFinger1969 said:
    It's not happening because no country will give up control of their central bank.

    .

    We (the USA) did.

    .

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GoldFinger1969 said:

    @jmski52 said:
    Imagine a world where only a few well-connected bankers & politicians control the world’s “reserve currency” and >where these select few elitists can withhold credit from whomever they wish………….

    I guess we can imagine it, because it's BS right now. :D

    Imagine if those select few wanted your family to eat bugs, own nothing and be happy about it.

    Ditto. :)

    What’s your definition of “manipulation”?

    What's YOURS ? You cut-and-past financial nonsense from conspiracy websites from folks with lousy track records in making predictions and/or managing money. :D

    .

    Canadian Truckers protested.
    The Canadian Government ordered that their bank accounts be locked.
    It happened.

    .

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,489 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @GoldFinger1969 said:

    @derryb said:
    The US will never back the dollar with gold. The FED will provide them with all the dollars they can spend. And the >good news is the FED creates them out of thin air. Their only cost is inflation.

    You don't need to back the dollar with gold to get whatever benefits you think a gold standard or gold exchange standard would provide.

    backing the dollar would put restraint on money printing. I consider that a major benefit.

    Restraining money printing is up to Congress.

    And backing the dollar with gold would only create massive boom and bust cycles just like we saw in the 1800s. Only now it would be worse, since today we are a population of weak people who know not the concepts of personal responsibility or self respect.

    And you think things are bad now. Haha

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,010 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    backing the dollar would put restraint on money printing. I consider that a major benefit.

    Restraining money printing is up to Congress.

    And a gold standard would greatly damper their spending. That is why you will not see a gold standard in the US.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 22, 2024 8:14AM

    @derryb said:
    backing the dollar would put restraint on money printing. I consider that a major benefit.

    And what about an exogenous shock like Covid-19 or a drop in monetary velocity ? You are saying to NOT ajust the supply of the various monetary aggregates ?

    You want the adjustment process to crush wages, prices, and unemployment which we KNOW will require a major loss of output ? This is what the ECB inflicted on Greece, Italy, and the PIIGS.

    Can't happen in a democracy.

  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 22, 2024 8:18AM

    @derryb said:
    And a gold standard would greatly damper their spending. That is why you will not see a gold standard in the US.

    No.....a gold standard would put 100% of the adjustment process on exogenous shocks to the U.S. financial or economic systems solely on fiscal policy.

    Monetary policy, which works within days, would be frozen. Fiscal policy, which moves at a snail's pace, would take months to implement.

    Do you understand how monetary policy works ? Have you studied The Great Depression....the Covid-19 Panic....the EU and ECB vs. The PIIGS ?

    Do you understand "The Denominator Effect" involving debt and NOMINAL GDP ? Do you understand how the U.S. differs from Italy, Greece, and the EU ?

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,263 ✭✭✭✭✭

    An interview with David Webb, author of “The Great Taking” is currently on USAWatchdog.com and is worth your time & attention.

    As much as coho & GF try to promote the corrupt debt-based banking system, the facts are the facts.

    New legal terms have been invented to allow the big banks to legally strip ownership the property rights of financial assets away from the rightful owners who bought the assets.

    The interview details how the legal system has been re-designed to steal as much of the world’s collateral as possible in the very near future.

    Get out of debt.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:

    @GoldFinger1969 said:

    @jmski52 said:
    Imagine a world where only a few well-connected bankers & politicians control the world’s “reserve currency” and >where these select few elitists can withhold credit from whomever they wish………….

    I guess we can imagine it, because it's BS right now. :D

    Imagine if those select few wanted your family to eat bugs, own nothing and be happy about it.

    Ditto. :)

    What’s your definition of “manipulation”?

    What's YOURS ? You cut-and-past financial nonsense from conspiracy websites from folks with lousy track records in making predictions and/or managing money. :D

    .

    Canadian Truckers protested.
    The Canadian Government ordered that their bank accounts be locked.
    It happened.

    .

    Canadian trucker crybabies turned out to be one big nothingburger. I still got all my goods. THKS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,010 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:

    Canadian trucker crybabies turned out to be one big nothingburger. I still got all my goods. THKS!

    Double Big Mac with cheese to those whose bank accounts were frozen because they stood up to their dictator.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,489 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    backing the dollar would put restraint on money printing. I consider that a major benefit.

    Restraining money printing is up to Congress.

    And a gold standard would greatly damper their spending. That is why you will not see a gold standard in the US.

    Well, it wouldn't curtail their spending, but you are correct in that we will not see the dollar backed by gold.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,489 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @blitzdude said:

    Canadian trucker crybabies turned out to be one big nothingburger. I still got all my goods. THKS!

    Double Big Mac with cheese to those whose bank accounts were frozen because they stood up to their dictator.

    The reds like dictators.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • DrBusterDrBuster Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2024 5:05PM

    How washed are you that you think the blues don't, even more so? SMH

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,010 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @blitzdude said:

    Canadian trucker crybabies turned out to be one big nothingburger. I still got all my goods. THKS!

    Double Big Mac with cheese to those whose bank accounts were frozen because they stood up to their dictator.

    The reds like dictators.

    Court Declares Trudeau's Orwellian Attack On Canadian Truckers To Be Unconstitutional

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,489 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2024 4:34AM

    @DrBuster said:
    How washed are you that you think the blues don't, even more so? SMH

    Not at all. I think the blues need a dictator.

    I just find it interesting that China is red. Russia is red. Turkey is red. Heck, it was even once said, "The red coats are coming, the redcoats are coming". Just seems red is associated with dictatorships.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,748 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Who needs a dictator ? We got Heather.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,748 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    backing the dollar would put restraint on money printing. I consider that a major benefit.

    Restraining money printing is up to Congress.

    And a gold standard would greatly damper their spending. That is why you will not see a gold standard in the US.

    Well, it wouldn't curtail their spending, but you are correct in that we will not see the dollar backed by gold.

    Perhaps not in government, but the people who know history should be just fine holding the gold, in exchange for whatever is being used as "currency", at whatever time in history you wish to pick. How many paper currencies have turned into obsolete "money" over the decades ? How many paper dollars does it take to acquire a gold ounce today vs. ten years ago ? Going forward , millions will never understand what a "gold" standard is, because their minds are manipulated much more with credit and debt, than the power of gold or its strength in any market.
    Money is money.
    If the car dealer won't take gold, one can easily find another to exchange the gold for bitcoin, or cash, or any number of other services. But the buying , selling and trading of gold, as money, goes on every day of our lives for longer than any of us have been haggling and debating around here.

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