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It seems like older PSA certs (same grade) are selling for less.

Same grade. Same card.
Is anyone else noticing this ?

Perhaps people are paying more for newer certs ?

I don’t track everything so just asking.

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Comments

  • GrooGroo Posts: 42 ✭✭
    edited January 8, 2024 5:38AM

    Yes and its becoming more obvious every day.

    I no longer purchase slabs not from last 2 years.

    I do believe in buy card not flip, but I also do not believe in spending money on slabs that have perception of 2nd rate. Afterall I may want to sell them at some point.

    Its sad PSA has done this

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 2,872 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's all about the card. if it's centered and the corners look darn good, you will make bank. psa, sgc cgc or beckett doesn't matter.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • olb31olb31 Posts: 2,872 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All three of 77's look great.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • HarnessracingHarnessracing Posts: 281 ✭✭✭

    Older slabs are selling for less. Smart buyers are getting nice cards cheaper so I disagree with JoeB. People are also buying lower grade newly graded cards at a higher price looking for a bargain and cracking them out.
    My opinion is older graded cards although properly graded are selling for less . Not all but many

  • mintonlyplsmintonlypls Posts: 1,692 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2024 7:39AM

    I disagree. There are very nice cards in old holders which would pass today’s tougher grading standards and receive the same grade today in the newer holders. Need to assess each card on its own merits and do NOT throw the baby away with the bath water…

    mint_only_pls
  • gemintgemint Posts: 6,058 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You always still have to buy based on the card. I've seen some comically overgraded cards in recent PSA flips. Sure, more times than not the error will be with under grading but not always. There are also a lot of cards graded long ago that were pulled from packs when vintage unopened was more readily available and less expensive. If people want to avoid those cards, I'll gladly buy them on the cheap.

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,439 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mintonlypls said:
    I disagree. There are very nice cards in old holders which would pass today’s tougher grading standards and receive the same grade today in the newer holders. Need to assess each card on its own merits and do NOT throw the baby away with the bath water…

    100%. I've seen overgraded cards in newer holders and vice versa. Collectors need to use their eyesight to make informed decisions instead of just going by when the card was graded.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • HidhoeHidhoe Posts: 310 ✭✭✭

    @brad31 said:
    I will pay up for a card nice for the grade - always have, always will. I couldn’t care less when the slab was from. However, I have been buying up some 77s of HOFers I do not have. (my ‘77 Set is weak so don’t have them on the grades I want). Recent 8s I have purchased tended to be very strong for the grade.

    Here are some examples:



    All these are recently graded.
    Are you noticing recently graded cards are where your sights are set ?

  • HidhoeHidhoe Posts: 310 ✭✭✭

    @grote15 said:

    @mintonlypls said:
    I disagree. There are very nice cards in old holders which would pass today’s tougher grading standards and receive the same grade today in the newer holders. Need to assess each card on its own merits and do NOT throw the baby away with the bath water…

    I've seen overgraded cards in newer holders and vice versa.

    Would love to see a few examples only if you have pictures.
    No big deal though if you don’t.

  • HidhoeHidhoe Posts: 310 ✭✭✭

    @mintonlypls said:
    I disagree. There are very nice cards in old holders which would pass today’s tougher grading standards and receive the same grade today in the newer holders. Need to assess each card on its own merits and do NOT throw the baby away with the bath water…

    Yes. There are 9’s in very old holders that could be 10’s.

  • HarnessracingHarnessracing Posts: 281 ✭✭✭

    I buy and sell cards, lots of them. There are collectors who won’t even look at cards in older generation holders. Yes even new holders have duds in them but I got less that 20 that way this year with over 7000 submissions. Many many more the other way.

  • jraytayjraytay Posts: 106 ✭✭

    @grote15 said:

    @mintonlypls said:
    I disagree. There are very nice cards in old holders which would pass today’s tougher grading standards and receive the same grade today in the newer holders. Need to assess each card on its own merits and do NOT throw the baby away with the bath water…

    100%. I've seen overgraded cards in newer holders and vice versa. Collectors need to use their eyesight to make informed decisions instead of just going by when the card was graded.

    About 10 years ago I set out to collect a career run of Koufax base cards (12) all graded 7. Took me a couple of years but finally completed. Here is a 1961 that I think might not have made a 7 if recently graded. Everything is sharp except centering. I have others with older holders and have thought about getting re-holdered but still on the fence.
    Also attached is a 1961 Mantle graded 7. Somebody posted about wrinkling of the certs. Tough to photo it to be seen but very obvious in person. Don't know if this still happens with the newer slab certs.

  • hyperchipper09hyperchipper09 Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have a number of older cert#'s I would not trade straight up 1 for 1 for the same card with the lighthouse cert#. It's still buy the card / not the holder.

  • jraytayjraytay Posts: 106 ✭✭

    Please elaborate on the lighthouse cert#. You seem to have insight of that period.

  • 19591959 Posts: 601 ✭✭✭

    If you re-holder a card, it gets a new holder but keeps the same cert. #. Now to re-grade is a different matter, but to avoid a lesser grade you put a minimum grade required of 7 or whatever grade you will except.

  • jraytayjraytay Posts: 106 ✭✭

    Understood. There just seems to be interesting discussions on new labels vs old labels. Could be because of what people are saying about the evolution from low tech grading to high-tech grading and how standards have changed. Many seem to be displeased with the current state.

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,439 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Hidhoe said:

    @grote15 said:

    @mintonlypls said:
    I disagree. There are very nice cards in old holders which would pass today’s tougher grading standards and receive the same grade today in the newer holders. Need to assess each card on its own merits and do NOT throw the baby away with the bath water…

    I've seen overgraded cards in newer holders and vice versa.

    Would love to see a few examples only if you have pictures.
    No big deal though if you don’t.

    @PaulMaul posted a few a while back.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • sayheywyosayheywyo Posts: 440 ✭✭✭

    @PaulMaul said:
    In the past, I expected the corners of a PSA 9 to look, if not perfect, very nice. They might not always be perfectly sharp, but there was never any chipping exposing the cardboard underneath the glossy surface.

    While I accept that in some ways grading has gotten tougher, I do see newly graded PSA 9s with more corner wear than I have come to expect in that grade. They mostly seem very well centered, but I can’t say I have found the average corner quality of a PSA 9 to have risen in the last few years.

    __

    This is exactly what I am talking about. This card has no business as a 9. Saddens me that others are getting 7s and 8s when they have scrutinized the corners with a loupe, and this is a 9?

  • brad31brad31 Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The ones shown are newer holders. Here are some recent purchases in older holders:

    @Hidhoe said:

    @brad31 said:
    I will pay up for a card nice for the grade - always have, always will. I couldn’t care less when the slab was from. However, I have been buying up some 77s of HOFers I do not have. (my ‘77 Set is weak so don’t have them on the grades I want). Recent 8s I have purchased tended to be very strong for the grade.

    Here are some examples:

    Are you noticing recently graded cards are where your sights are set ?

    No - here are some recent purchases in old labels:



  • Yankees70Yankees70 Posts: 112 ✭✭

    @Harnessracing said:
    I buy and sell cards, lots of them. There are collectors who won’t even look at cards in older generation holders. Yes even new holders have duds in them but I got less that 20 that way this year with over 7000 submissions. Many many more the other way.

    This is insane (not you but the collectors who do this ) and if true why would a collector EVER get his cards graded until the moment he wants to sell them. Let's say a collector gets his cards graded today, Fast forward to 2028 and the certs are now considered old which results in a good percentage of collectors avoiding them.

    Bottom Line: The card not the holder should be reviewed. PSA 8's and 9's in old holders that are off center should be avoided and cards that are centered and consist of the characteristics of a PSA 9 should be desired. Otherwise like I said if a collector believes he might sell his collection one day there's no reason to have his cards graded until the year he sells his cards.

  • JolleyWrencherJolleyWrencher Posts: 596 ✭✭✭

    @Yankees70 said:

    @Harnessracing said:
    I buy and sell cards, lots of them. There are collectors who won’t even look at cards in older generation holders. Yes even new holders have duds in them but I got less that 20 that way this year with over 7000 submissions. Many many more the other way.

    This is insane (not you but the collectors who do this ) and if true why would a collector EVER get his cards graded until the moment he wants to sell them. Let's say a collector gets his cards graded today, Fast forward to 2028 and the certs are now considered old which results in a good percentage of collectors avoiding them.

    Bottom Line: The card not the holder should be reviewed. PSA 8's and 9's in old holders that are off center should be avoided and cards that are centered and consist of the characteristics of a PSA 9 should be desired. Otherwise like I said if a collector believes he might sell his collection one day there's no reason to have his cards graded until the year he sells his cards.

    Old label off centered typically had the OC added. I think another risk to consider is buying an old holder that was tampered with. If the auction price is below the ebay authentication level, or you buy it elsewhere, then it's on you to discover if the slab was tampered with.

    Imagine buying an old Mantle or Aaron rookie and realizing later that a reprint card was slipped in. Someone sold it for the value of a real card and then still has a real one.

  • Yankees70Yankees70 Posts: 112 ✭✭

    I understand all of that. Still a card should not be avoided because of the cert number. Othewise there's no reason to have your cards graded until the year you want to sell them.

  • Yankees70Yankees70 Posts: 112 ✭✭

    I'm talking about collectors who think they might sell their collection or part of their collection one day.

  • HarnessracingHarnessracing Posts: 281 ✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2024 8:29PM

    I don’t disagree with the buy the card not the holder, BUT some buyers don’t want older generation holders especially the ones that looked like they came from a typewriter. 1 generation holders

  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,674 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Harnessracing said:
    I don’t disagree with the buy the card not the holder, BUT some buyers don’t want older generation holders especially the ones that looked like they came from a typewriter. 1 generation holders

    All things being equal I would rather have a new holder. But any card in an undamaged case can be reholdered with no risk of grade change, so what is the difference really? Somebody might think PSA was looser 15 years ago, but if the card is nice and can be reholdered, what is the downside?

  • 82FootballWaxMemorys82FootballWaxMemorys Posts: 1,267 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @sayheywyo said:

    @PaulMaul said:
    In the past, I expected the corners of a PSA 9 to look, if not perfect, very nice. They might not always be perfectly sharp, but there was never any chipping exposing the cardboard underneath the glossy surface.

    While I accept that in some ways grading has gotten tougher, I do see newly graded PSA 9s with more corner wear than I have come to expect in that grade. They mostly seem very well centered, but I can’t say I have found the average corner quality of a PSA 9 to have risen in the last few years.

    __

    This is exactly what I am talking about. This card has no business as a 9. Saddens me that others are getting 7s and 8s when they have scrutinized the corners with a loupe, and this is a 9?

    the four corners of that card are certainly not sharp.

    Unless otherwise specified my posts represent only my opinion, not fact.

  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2024 6:18PM

    @grote15 said:

    @Hidhoe said:

    @grote15 said:

    @mintonlypls said:
    I disagree. There are very nice cards in old holders which would pass today’s tougher grading standards and receive the same grade today in the newer holders. Need to assess each card on its own merits and do NOT throw the baby away with the bath water…

    I've seen overgraded cards in newer holders and vice versa.

    Would love to see a few examples only if you have pictures.
    No big deal though if you don’t.

    @PaulMaul posted a few a while back.

    This card should literally be a PSA 7. It has wear at three corners, actual chips of white missing that can be clearly seen! 🙁

  • gemintgemint Posts: 6,058 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RonSportscards said:
    Actual quote from a reddit post:

    "Personally I do not like anything pre 55xxx and I don't even know why. I just love seeing higher numbers on PSA graded cards I buy. I just bought a 70xxx PSA graded card and I'm loving the fact that it was graded so recently!"

    So yeah, there are people like this out there.

    Crazy.

  • 82FootballWaxMemorys82FootballWaxMemorys Posts: 1,267 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2024 8:17AM

    I've noticed on some of the cards I seek purchase the under 6XXXX's going for less.

    Yes I buy the card not the flip! Still all things condition wise being equal, buying the post 2021 cert # may be wiser

    As easily 95% of my PSA slabs are pre-2021 this trend which is clearly growing does concern me.

    Unless otherwise specified my posts represent only my opinion, not fact.

  • gemintgemint Posts: 6,058 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What are they going to do if PSA normalizes their grading standards again? Their business model will collapse.

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 2,872 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hernandez about looks like a solid 8. nice centering, decent corners, sharp colors. If i were a grader, that's were I would be. As for the newer graded cards go. I recently bought a psa 7 rose at the chantilly card show in october. Paid $375, it a newer one. I thought the grade looked spot on, maybe because it has great centering it should have been a 7.5, but that's it. I have graded hundreds of cards with the new "standards". The grades are generally more strict mainly because of the surface and may have something to do with AI or updated magnification. Or they just are more strict with the surface than in years past. But there is a definite shift.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • olb31olb31 Posts: 2,872 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've been pleased with SGC so far. Grading I feel is a little more dependent on the overlook of the card. And certainly having grades back in 14 days and the cards back in 21, works better for me. Prices are about 80% of PSA on the higher end and about the same on the middle type cards like a 1975 PSA 8 Carew.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • olb31olb31 Posts: 2,872 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Eye appeal is the deal in my opinion. If with 20/20 vision the card looks mint, it shouldn't grade a 6. I think this is what everyone wants. No maybe PSA should have been more strict with PSA 10's since inception. I think that too would make a difference. If a 1978 Topps Pete Rose had only 15 PSA's 10's and 75 psa 9's, then the grading would be more agreeable. But when there are 700 PSA's and 1000 PSA 8's your screwed.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • steel75steel75 Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭✭

    Overthinking things lead to this.

    1970's Steelers, Vintage Indians
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,137 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The same people who were buying up all the toilet paper when COVID hit are now panicking over this.
    Idiots.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set

  • Mike Bossy RC "old grading" standards. Would love to see what a "freshly" graded Bossy 8 looks like.

  • Olb
    I have over 1200 of the triple print 78 Rose’s I haven’t submitted because there are so many 8,9 and 10’s

  • thedutymon11thedutymon11 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭✭

    @JoeBanzai said:
    The same people who were buying up all the toilet paper when COVID hit are now panicking over this.
    Idiots.

    Wow, exact same thought! But I do have at least 44 each 4/6/8 packets of TP rolls still in my closet, anybody in the Phoenix area up for a Road Trip?

    YeeHaw! :smiley::D

    Neil

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    seems like a moot point when you can just send in for a reholder. I guess i am not seeing the issue here

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,674 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    seems like a moot point when you can just send in for a reholder. I guess i am not seeing the issue here

    It’s not an issue of the holder, but of the cert number, which can be used to date when the card was graded.

  • DotStoreDotStore Posts: 701 ✭✭✭✭

    I don't avoid older cert #'s, but given the choice between the same card in the same grade , with the same eye appeal, I would pay a slight premium for the newer Cert #.

  • brad31brad31 Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DotStore said:
    I don't avoid older cert #'s, but given the choice between the same card in the same grade , with the same eye appeal, I would pay a slight premium for the newer Cert #.

    I hope there are a lot of collectors like you. Might win more auctions because I would take the cheaper equal card every single time be it SGC or old holder.

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 2,872 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Harnessracing said:
    Olb
    I have over 1200 of the triple print 78 Rose’s I haven’t submitted because there are so many 8,9 and 10’s

    Wow. Thats incredible.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • olb31olb31 Posts: 2,872 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    seems like a moot point when you can just send in for a reholder. I guess i am not seeing the issue here

    Exactly.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
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