Justin Fields and the #1 pick
2dueces
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Is Chicago in a tough spot or right where they want to be?
If Fields balls out and beats Green Bay is he the franchise QB? Does the outcome of this game affect anything?
So they draft a QB to replace him and trade him or trade back just far enough to draft Harrison for another weapon for Fields?
I believe a lot rides on Sunday.
W.C.Fields
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
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IMO I think Fields has improved during the course of the year. He is making throws. He has thrown some absolute dimes on long passes(some not caught too which isn't his fault).
He isn't just waiting for the wide open guy(and then running when he isn't there), as he is taking more chances and squeezing some in there(and still not throwing a lot of INT's), and that is what I personally wanted to see.
Earlier in the year I thought it was a no go for sure. I think he has changed that.
The Bears offensive coordinator isn't that good. He makes terrible play calls, especially on third and short. He needs to go.
Trade that pick and get a bigger haul than last year. NFL execs have proven that they cannot isolate the variables enough in evaluating QB's to definitively say the top QB in this draft will be a franchise player. It is too much of a risk taking that chance 'thinking' you will be right keeping that pick, when you could get three more elite picks in return, and you know the guy you have now is at least good enough right now(and still can get better).
QB's are still getting too much credit for winning, and then when they lose or don't perform it always is "because the team around them is not good enough." Hogwash, if it is the QB who wins then it shouldn't matter who is around you.
Reality is that you need a good team everywhere to be elite.
Ryan Pace left the team in shambles with the cupboard completely bare. The Bears needed to hit a couple home runs to get their franchise back quickly. Getting the number one pick last year was their first home run.
Getting the number one pick this year was a grand slam, if they parlay that into three elite players instead of one 'possible' excellent QB.
Yes, you re-set the QB salary clock if you pick a QB, but Fields still has one year left and the option, so it isn't a full re-set, but keep in mind, if you are getting three elite players in return then you are re-setting the clock for THOSE elite guys you need everywhere else. So instead of paying 27 million for a WR in free agency, you get to re-set that clock in the draft. THey just gave Sweat 25 million a year and then they get to draft another guy like him and re-set that elite need too. ETC.
Build a great team.
So trade down, get a bunch of draft capital but still stay high enough for Marvin Harrison? No excuses if DJ Moore and Harrison are your #1 and #1A. They talking heads are saying Harrison is the next Justin Jefferson
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Woulde > @2dueces said:
Yes, but it may not be Harrison. That will depend on the desires of the top four teams so there is an unknown there. They may need to go a few spots further and get Malik Nabers and more draft picks. That may actually be the better route.
I wouldn't fall in love with one guy. In the NFL the top WR and sixth best WR really aren't that much different. Just get as many top six WR, top six DT, etc...and your team will be good.
I would move on from Fields, trade him away while his value is higher right now
That is still an option too. If they can get a #1 for him, then that would make it more doable.
Really, the Bears are in the most luxurious position. They have several options that any team would love to be in position to have.
The one thing that would hurt the most is taking a QB at #1 that turns out to be a bust.
They know what they have in Fields. Question is, is he what they want.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
It's hard in the NFL to find and draft a franchise QB. If a team does that and they don't have the talent for that QB to use, then they may never know they have him. I'm not saying Justin Fields is that player but the team they have is right in the middle of the NFC. The deal they made with Carolina gives them draft capital to build with.
I said this in another thread: there are 3-QB's and 1-WR that will go quickly, undoubtedly in the top 10 picks depending on team needs. Of those QB's I'd say it's 1 of 3 to transform an organization. With Marvin Harrison, Jr. it's an almost sure thing he'll be a Ja'marr Chase type of impact player. If the Bears take him to help Fields the affect will be immediate. I'm not sure how much these two played together in 2021, but they should at least be familiar with each other and that will help.
Keep Justin Fields and draft Marvin Harrison, Jr. with that first pick. Then use the current 10th pick for more offense, maybe an Offensive Tackle or other lineman. Maybe even use that pick for more trades.
One other thing that is picking up steam is that Fields is well respected in the locker room and his teammates are calling for him to stay. They have a good formula working with that right now. Who knows what happens if you throw someone like Caleb Williams into that mix instead of Fields.
for me, this is going to be the most intriguing draft since i've been alive. my favorite team is at #1, and my subsidiary team is at #4.
Bears: Fields' progress is too incremental for my taste. even with all of these recent wins he's 10-27 as a starter as we near the end of year 3. he was given a legit WR1 in D.J. Moore and his completion percentage is still hovering around 60%, as it was in his previous two seasons. not remotely good enough. time for a hard reset with Caleb Williams on a rook contract, or eviscerate another desperate team by moving down, stowing extra picks, and grabbing the Heisman Trophy winner. a 6'4" QB who went for 50 total touchdowns and only turned the ball over 4 times while traversing the SEC? if i was Ryan Poles i'd happily roll the dice on Daniels and build like hell around him.
Cardinals: Arizona is poised to make some noise next season. 6 picks out of the first 80 in next year's draft. if they lose against Seattle tomorrow and therefore pick no lower than 4th, Marvin the Martian will not be on the board at 5. he will be wearing red and white next season unless the Bears decide to keep Fields, or another team pays a king's ransom to move to the top of the draft and nab him. forget the QBs -- Harrison is the best player coming out of the college ranks. 6'4", polished route runner, and can blaze. i'm salivating at the thought of Kyler playing pitch-n-catch with him. check this out:
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Sounds like a great two days for you. Get some snacks ready. Pack the fridge with beer. Then grab a seat on the couch for draft night and the next day draft coverage.
All great points. Keep them coming
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Taking a WR 1:1 would be a very aggressive move, especially in a draft that will have at minimum 2 first round WRs and more likely 3 possibly 4. Could be up to 5 if you count Bowers who is a TE but a great pass catcher.
If theyre going to stick with Fields they should trade down. Worse case Nabers whose every bit as good will likely still be there for their second pick and they can take a tackle or EDGE with their first pick. The top offensive weapons wont all be gone by the time their second pick rolls around
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
Yes good points.
So far the sacks for Fields today are all on the line and/or the scheme.
Other than that he has made all good throws and some into coverage for completions.
DJ Moore is legit.
Mooney is toast. Wonder if that knee injury has taken a step away from the speed where he needed every ounce to be good.
Speaking of Moore that would be another reason for the Bears to trade down if they arent going to take a QB. That haul they got from Carolina last year without even moving that far down was insane. Carolina decimated their franchise with that trade up. If its going to be like that every time I almost think that everyone with the 1st pick should trade down unless all they are missing is a QB.
I think they should move on from Fields though. Fields gets hurt a lot and hes about to get expensive. Anything other than drafting a QB they should trade down.
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
Fields looks like another mediocre qb who is never going to take his team to the promised land. Chicago could draft another high DP qb - oh wait, it will be another flame out like all of them for decades. Er, maybe it is their management and coaching? I will tell Bo to do an Elway if he is drafted by the Chicago qb killers...............
If you plug any QB into the Bears yesterday the outcome would have been the same. If you plug a rookie QB in there it would have been worse.
The scheme and line allowed the pocket to completely collapse too many times. They chose to stop throwing to DJ Moore(partly because the line collapsed too), so unless you get a better line and scheme, the Bears won't be any better with a new QB.
Fields has been on the money on more than enough throws(past the line of scrimmage). They don't pass block good enough(even if the metrics say they are good, they get beat too badly on enough plays to more than negate the plays were they supposedly hold it just enough to count as +).
DJ Moore does make some plays on his own. That is the only player on the team(other than Fields) than can make plays on their own merit. Other QB'S have players turn average pass plays into QB rating gold. With a handful of those plays then Field's QB rating shoots up.
But you need to block for those plays to even materialize and you have to scheme your best guys to get the ball more. Cute WR reverses/runs on third and short don't help either.
How do you get those playmakers? By drafting them high or signing them.
You need at least one other play maker like Marvin Harrison. Tyreek HIll makes 30 million a year. So all this talk about re-setting the QB salary, that won't matter unless you get another weapon anyway. So instead of paying 30 million to an elite WR(of which those opportunities are rare), drafting someone like Harrison re-sets that clock and gives you a golden opportunity. Plus Fields still has a cheap year and another halfway cheap option year.
I would even say that a difference maker WR is harder to find than a QB. Look how many QB's have come off the bench and won and did well this year. There is no such thing as a backup WR coming off the bench and being a #1 type guy. You can make a QB look elite with a good team...can't make a WR look elite if he can't get open or make plays after the catch.
Then if they trade that pick you get more than a top WR. Depending on where you trade, you add one or two more top guys at other positions that they desperately need. If they don't add those guys and throw a rookie QB in there, they won't be better. Add one more year of Fields with bolstered WR, OL, and DE, then you are talking about true improvement. Then get a new offensive coordinator that will utilize the weapons.
Fields said his "just in case" farewell to the city of Chicago after yesterday's game
has the face of a franchise ever done such a thing and then stayed? deep down i think he knows he's gone
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
All great points. Keep them coming > @galaxy27 said:
After yesterday my opinion has changed. Trade him, draft Calab and ruin another Qb on a rookie contract
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
It is looking that way.
He's a good kid too. I wish him well where he goes next. If he goes to Atlanta and Atlanta drafts one of the top WR...he may do quite well there. With Ryan Pace in the Atlanta front office he has someone that already likes him.
If the Bears hey will regret it twice on every Football Sunday in the near future, once when they play with whoever they think will improve the position for them and once when they watch Fields play wherever he lands.
i love Justin Fields the person. he's an exemplary human being. always has a great attitude, always has a great demeanor. has never once acted like a prima donna.
with that said, i've seen enough of him. the eye test says he's a spectacular athlete, but not a franchise QB who can take a team to the promised land. there was a time when he showed flashes of being that dude, but after 3 seasons i'm now convinced he's not.
some are bringing up the way the Bears finished the season -- going 4-2 in the last six games. that obviously works, but when you take a deep dive into the numbers you see 4 touchdowns and 3 picks from Fields in those six games. half of the TDs he tossed this season came in two games. in the other 11 he started, he didn't throw more than one touchdown in any of them.
that type of production is simply not going to cut it.................especially in today's NFL
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
A lot of that is scheme, poor blocking, and only one playmaker on offense. Makes a world of difference for your stats when a QB throws three yard TD passes instead of running it in(or not having someone good enough to get open there). Or a playmaker taking a quick slant for 60 yards when it is all them and not the QB.
Look at this article before last years draft about first round QB's taken in since 2011. Look at the amazing scouting reports before they were drafted. Many busts. A few studs. Many nothing special.
"There have been 38 quarterbacks drafted in the first round since 2011, the year the NFL changed the collective bargaining agreement to set a wage scale for rookie deals, making it extremely affordable to draft a quarterback," he began. "These 38 first-round quarterbacks have made a total of 1,909 starts. Their record? 1034-1035-7. Almost exactly break-even."
"Only one of those 38 quarterbacks led their team to a Super Bowl victory: Patrick Mahomes," Sharp reported. "Of these 38 quarterbacks, 10 are still on their rookie deal, so set them aside. Of the other 28, only 11 (39%) were even given a second deal with the team that drafted them. Most were cut or saw their rookie deals expire."
https://www.insider.com/nfl-draft-first-round-quarterbacks-busts
You need a good team to win. Throwing a rookie QB into the Bears next year is more of a crapshoot than many realize, first pick or not. If they find the Mahomes or Andrew Luck that is great and they will be good, but the odds are greater they will find one of the busts or so-so guys that everyone else has found since 2011 for their teams.
There is a chance the top WR is a bust too, but someone like Harrison I would guess is much more bust proof than any of the QB's on the board. The old "take the best player" is almost always the best way to go...especially if you can trade your pick and still get the best player plus other picks in return.
early this morning I was saying to my dad {Loyal Bears Watcher}; that the Bears should dump offensive coordinator Luke Getsy and bring in Matt Nagy for O-C....that #15 dude on that red team doesn't want him either...
https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-bears/dj-moore-had-eye-opening-luke-getsy-comments-after-packers-loss/
So is it too early to definitively say which of the QB's drafted in the 2021 NFL draft will be:
A. a Star; or
B. a Bust?
A lot depends on what teams they go to. I'd predict Penix as a bust though. Left hander thats had ACL surgery on both knees and will be 24 when drafted. And whoever the Washington whatever they are calling themselves now drafts. Thats just a dumpster fire organization
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
I would say Lance, Wilson, and Mac Jones are busts.
Trey Lance as a colossal bust considering what they gave up to pick him.
and Mac Jones
back then I almost thought about investing in Mac Jones...
Bears fire Getsy and QB coach. I don't know how Eberflus survived being that he is the guy who picked two coordinators that were either bizarre or bad...in addition to his coaching costing them three wins at minimum.
Who knows if this signals a full reset with a new QB or if they feel those guys were the problem and not Fields.
Poles did a horrible job of building an offense too void of playmakers and protection.
very interesting. to me this signals Fields being back, but who the hell knows when it comes to the Bears and quarterbacks. it's always a three-ring circus.
one thing is almost a certainty, however: one of my teams is getting Harrison lol. and if it's my "real" favorite team with the first pick, there's a good chance the other will take Nabers...............who feels more like 1.5 rather than 2.
have i mentioned the draft can't get here soon enough?
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Gonna be a long four months waiting.
the more i think about it, the more messed up today's news seems. so very Bears like to clean house -- with the exception of the lame duck head coach who has one foot out the door. moreover, it leads me to believe that Fields may be gone after all.
think about it, if you're an NFL coach looking to take an OC job -- or an established OC looking to take a lateral position -- isn't the selling point that you'll have the opportunity to work with a QB that's the #1 overall pick in the draft? who would want to take a job that consists of a QB who hasn't lived up to the billing, will have his 3rd o-coord in 4 seasons, and has no long-term commitment from the team?
and for what reason is Poles handcuffing himself to Eberflus?
my team compels me to day drink
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
I agree that it is more of a sign they are moving on.
The Bears are cheap and they don't want to pay two coaches so they kept Eberflus. The buck stops at the McCaskey's. Poles has no choice.
The Bears have requested to interview Kliff Kingsbury for their OC job. He is currently the QB coach at USC and their offensive analyst which would seem to indicate moving on from Fields if they hire him.
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
i think i just passed out
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
this morning the 670 Score boys were talking Good about Caleb...
hey 2dueces...
Um...any idea on what I should do with this Blaster???
Got nothing for him.