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1879-CC: will it straight grade?!

Recently picked up this capped die 79-CC raw for a great price. Coin appears pretty original looking with plenty rub in hand, but there's a few rim dings.



Would it straight grade? I'm on the fence but think it could. If it did, looks to be on the border line of F15 / VF20 to me.

Comments

  • anablepanablep Posts: 5,008 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice coin, looks original!

    But it’s difficult to judge from these pictures alone. It’s in the F/VF range if the surfaces are original & the rim dings are minor.

    Always looking for attractive rim toned Morgan and Peace dollars in PCGS or (older) ANA/ANACS holders!

    "Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."


    ~Wayne
  • Manifest_DestinyManifest_Destiny Posts: 2,974 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks obviously cleaned to me. I don't think it will straight grade.

  • mattnissmattniss Posts: 542 ✭✭✭

    Should go without saying, it's obviously tough to make a determination like this solely based on amateur photos, so do your best with what you got. B)

  • CameonutCameonut Posts: 7,246 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Being blunt, I don't like the look at all, straight grade or not. (I think not).

    “In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson

    My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!

  • mattnissmattniss Posts: 542 ✭✭✭

    @Cameonut said:
    Being blunt, I don't like the look at all, straight grade or not. (I think not).

    Definitely not the best looker in the lineup, couldn't agree more. For the price, however, she was definitely worth it.

  • mattnissmattniss Posts: 542 ✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    But in the absence of that, I don’t have a good feeling about the coin and suspect it’s not original.

    Assuming by "not original" you mean that you think it's a details coin vs. being not genuine, right?

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,694 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mattniss said:

    @MFeld said:
    But in the absence of that, I don’t have a good feeling about the coin and suspect it’s not original.

    Assuming by "not original" you mean that you think it's a details coin vs. being not genuine, right?

    Correct, it looks genuine, but cleaned or otherwise altered.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 8,831 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cleaned. I don’t believe it will straight grade.

    “I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~

    My Full Walker Registry Set:

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • vplite99vplite99 Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It looks like an old cleaning.

    Vplite99
  • something seams off with it. A lot of wear but not a lot of bag marks. surface looks odd.

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 7,939 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd send it in and see how they grade it, worse coins have straight graded at PCGS and NGC. I'd try a few times just because if you can get it to grade VF20 that will be a good money grade.

  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,959 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If I sent it in I would expect a "VF Details" result.

    When in doubt, don't.
  • mattnissmattniss Posts: 542 ✭✭✭

    @DennisH said:
    If I sent it in I would expect a "VF Details" result.

    Seems to be the general consensus. Would still be a nice little cherry pick win if it came back VF Details. Would be an extremely nice win if it came back VF20!

  • mattnissmattniss Posts: 542 ✭✭✭

    And just for alternative reference, here's the TV for another lowball cherry pick I had in 2023, my 1889-CC in G6:

    It was suggested by several that this was also likely a details coin and yet, received a straight grade. Food for thought.

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,479 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is a genuine VAM-3 (note G in GOD filled in). I think it has a chance for a straight grade. The scratch from eagle's beak down through the wing bothers me more that rim dings.
    bob :)
    vegas, baby!
    Oh, it's a top 100 VAM

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), [email protected]
  • alaura22alaura22 Posts: 2,439 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's not already in a holder for a reason
    Details here
    Sorry

  • The_Dinosaur_ManThe_Dinosaur_Man Posts: 820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks to me as if the coin had a lot of PVC removed from it. Those lighter areas would have been unhealthy homes for the repulsive substance, and if the coin had been in such a flip or an old Harco album, there would be a near perfect impression of the coin's design elements outlined in PVC on the plastic. I think it would come back as details.

    Custom album maker and numismatic photographer, see my portfolio here: (http://www.donahuenumismatics.com/).

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,479 ✭✭✭✭✭

    those light areas were often seen on pocket carried dollars (blue jeans does that to them).
    May not have been cleaned.

    bob

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), [email protected]
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maybe VF20 or F15 (straight grade) if the surfaces are not hairlined.
    Appears to be genuine, VAM-3.

  • coastaljerseyguycoastaljerseyguy Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Might straight grade, maybe lightly cleaned and retoned. Rims are nicked up

  • 2windy2fish2windy2fish Posts: 770 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I believe this will straight grade, curious to see the outcome now!

  • Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,314 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not the best images, but it looks lightly cleaned to my eyes.

    Dave

    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
  • mattnissmattniss Posts: 542 ✭✭✭

    @2windy2fish said:
    I believe this will straight grade, curious to see the outcome now!

    I guess I have to submit this one now given all the intrigue... :D

  • GreenstangGreenstang Posts: 714 ✭✭✭✭

    If you submit it, please let us know the results for our own education as well.

  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Definitely genuine, VAM 3, I say strong F/low VF. Possible details grade- not for cleaning but for the mark in the hair.


    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,694 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @telephoto1 said:
    Definitely genuine, VAM 3, I say strong F/low VF. Possible details grade- not for cleaning but for the mark in the hair.

    I don’t see a mark in the hair that would make me consider a details grade.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • SPalladinoSPalladino Posts: 823 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AUandAG said:
    It is a genuine VAM-3 (note G in GOD filled in). I think it has a chance for a straight grade. The scratch from eagle's beak down through the wing bothers me more that rim dings.
    bob :)
    vegas, baby!
    Oh, it's a top 100 VAM

    ...agree.

    Steve Palladino
    - Ike Group member
    - DIVa (Designated Ike Varieties) Project co-lead and attributor
  • No HeadlightsNo Headlights Posts: 2,026 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yu may have to submit it more than once in my opinion. I personally don't believe it will/ should straight grade.
    Good luck

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,662 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I do not see a straight grade based solely on the imagines shared.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • BarberianBarberian Posts: 2,875 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @The_Dinosaur_Man said:
    Looks to me as if the coin had a lot of PVC removed from it. Those lighter areas would have been unhealthy homes for the repulsive substance, and if the coin had been in such a flip or an old Harco album, there would be a near perfect impression of the coin's design elements outlined in PVC on the plastic. I think it would come back as details

    I may be mistaken, but I don't see the etching or pitting associated with PVC flips or other corrosive environments on this coin.

    The coin below recently straight graded (P50) but shows some etching on the high points and some rim corrosion. Some of the dark toning as spalled off above Washington's and Lafayette's head. There also appear to be "micro-barnacles" on Lafayette's nose and Washington's lip. This coin's condition was discussed here a year ago before its PCGS grade and TV were released. It was a toss-up whether it would straight grade or be dinged for environmental damage after posting the seller's pictures.


    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1083707/opinions-wanted-on-a-lafayette-dollar/p1

    3 rim nicks away from Good
  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @telephoto1 said:
    Definitely genuine, VAM 3, I say strong F/low VF. Possible details grade- not for cleaning but for the mark in the hair.

    I don’t see a mark in the hair that would make me consider a details grade.

    I'm looking at the mark underneath LIBERTY and have seen details grades for similar marks. To be fair though, they've also let them slide occasionally as well. That's why I said "possible".


    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,752 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Send it in, if you want an honest answer. Just picked up a '93-CC raw. Wondering the same thing. Will post before and after photos when it comes back. I suggest you do the same.

  • My thoughts...
    Rims are dinged a bit. Obverse rim almost looks out of round? It could be the holder? I initially thought it may have been artificially toned?
    What's the average value of an raw 1879-CC graded VF?

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,694 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @telephoto1 said:

    @MFeld said:

    @telephoto1 said:
    Definitely genuine, VAM 3, I say strong F/low VF. Possible details grade- not for cleaning but for the mark in the hair.

    I don’t see a mark in the hair that would make me consider a details grade.

    I'm looking at the mark underneath LIBERTY and have seen details grades for similar marks. To be fair though, they've also let them slide occasionally as well. That's why I said "possible".

    Thank you. I just don't think it's severe/conspicuous enough on a rather heavily circulated coin to merit a details-grade. But I've been surprised before. ;)

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • mattnissmattniss Posts: 542 ✭✭✭

    Going to get this one submitted to our hosts in the next couple of days. Will revisit with before / after pictures when it's back!

  • Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 704 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good luck with it.
    I have no additional comments to add about the coins condition that haven't been said already.
    I'll be interested to see how things turn out.
    Good Luck!

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars

  • Project NumismaticsProject Numismatics Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The color looks off - what kind of lighting and camera did you use?

  • Can someone explain the marks on the reverse, between the wing and wreath @ 3:00? Asking purely out of curiosity.

  • mattnissmattniss Posts: 542 ✭✭✭

    @Project Numismatics said:
    The color looks off - what kind of lighting and camera did you use?

    My iPhone and the lighting in my office. Zero special setup.

    @JohnThePainter said:
    Can someone explain the marks on the reverse, between the wing and wreath @ 3:00? Asking purely out of curiosity.

    They appear to be reeding marks to me in hand.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,008 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like a rusted die "CC" to me and I believe it might grade on a good day, and those days do exist.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 6,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    VF Details graded ones are bringing several hundred dollars each on eBay.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • ElmerFusterpuckElmerFusterpuck Posts: 4,611 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hard to tell from the photos, but I give it a 50/50 shot for a straight grade, maybe a VF-20.

    On Etsy or Temu, this would be at least an MS-67 grade.

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