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Miss aligment or one face off-center

silviosisilviosi Posts: 444 ✭✭✭
edited December 27, 2023 11:23PM in U.S. Coin Forum



Here I have an coins which it has contoversy. It is an miss aligment or just one side off-center.

For me it is an off center because it is almost 2 mm which represent near 10%. Interesting coin, hope WILL will se and give the tough.

NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE. MARK TWAIN

Comments

  • AlanSkiAlanSki Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭✭✭

  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,539 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A misaligned die results in one side being off center. It's the same thing.

    Nice one, being so extreme.

  • silviosisilviosi Posts: 444 ✭✭✭

    Sorry AlanSki I do not get it. One face off-center it is a very rare to have.

    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE. MARK TWAIN

  • silviosisilviosi Posts: 444 ✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2023 12:13AM

    Thanks, JBK
    I saw missaligment on two sides but not this kind. I appreciate your answer. You are on the same line as Mike Diamond told me. I come with this because seem to be unusual, and I want oppinions from rude collectors.

    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE. MARK TWAIN

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,333 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice score, I like 👍

  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice example of a misaligned die.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • jonathanbjonathanb Posts: 3,390 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @silviosi said:
    Thanks, JBK
    I saw misalignment on two sides but not this kind. I appreciate your answer. You are on the same line as Mike Diamond told me. I come with this because seem to be unusual, and I want opinions from rude collectors.

    There is no such thing as "misalignment on two sides". Misalignment BY DEFINITION is one side misaligned relative to the other.

    Your coin shows a large misalignment. It is rare. However, it is not particularly valuable because few people collect misaligned coins, even ones with large misalignments. Based on past eBay sales, yours is probably worth $20-40.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2023 7:57AM

    @jonathanb said:

    @silviosi said:
    Thanks, JBK
    I saw misalignment on two sides but not this kind. I appreciate your answer. You are on the same line as Mike Diamond told me. I come with this because seem to be unusual, and I want opinions from rude collectors.

    There is no such thing as "misalignment on two sides". Misalignment BY DEFINITION is one side misaligned relative to the other.

    What if they are misaligned relative to normal alignment and both dies are misaligned at different angles? Is this possible?

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,494 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @silviosi said:
    Here I have an coins which it has contoversy. It is an miss aligment or just one side off-center.

    For me it is an off center because it is almost 2 mm which represent near 10%. Interesting coin, hope WILL will se and give the tough.

    >

    Sorry AlanSki I do not get it. One face off-center it is a very rare to have.

    >

    Thanks, JBK
    I saw missaligment on two sides but not this kind. I appreciate your answer. You are on the same line as Mike >Diamond told me. I come with this because seem to be unusual, and I want oppinions from rude collectors.

    >
    >

    Can someone translate this for me? :s

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • jonathanbjonathanb Posts: 3,390 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @jonathanb said:

    @silviosi said:
    Thanks, JBK
    I saw misalignment on two sides but not this kind. I appreciate your answer. You are on the same line as Mike Diamond told me. I come with this because seem to be unusual, and I want opinions from rude collectors.

    There is no such thing as "misalignment on two sides". Misalignment BY DEFINITION is one side misaligned relative to the other.

    What is they are misaligned relative to normal alignment and both dies are misaligned at different angles? Is this possible?

    I suppose that's possible but it's hard for me to picture how it would happen. You'd need to have a coin struck with a collar. On a coin without a collar such as an ancient, I'd sooner call it an off-center strike with misaligned dies.

    For modern coins, the anvil die is fixed. The collar can move vertically relative to the anvil die, but it's constrained horizontally. You'd need a way for the collar die to move horizontally relative to the anvil die, while the hammer die moved horizontally in a different direction relative to both of them. I guess it's not IMpossible. I don't know if any die presses would allow that double movement though.

    I suppose you could theoretically have the obverse and reverse dies both misaligned relative to the plane defined by the collar die. Like maybe if the OP's coin was also struck with a tilted partial collar you could say that one die was misaligned horizontally and the other vertically relative to the collar. That feels like semantics though.

  • AlanSkiAlanSki Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OAKSTAR said:

    @silviosi said:
    Here I have an coins which it has contoversy. It is an miss aligment or just one side off-center.

    For me it is an off center because it is almost 2 mm which represent near 10%. Interesting coin, hope WILL will se and give the tough.

    >

    Sorry AlanSki I do not get it. One face off-center it is a very rare to have.

    >

    Thanks, JBK
    I saw missaligment on two sides but not this kind. I appreciate your answer. You are on the same line as Mike >Diamond told me. I come with this because seem to be unusual, and I want oppinions from rude collectors.

    >
    >

    Can someone translate this for me? :s

    He made the post early this morning and it was missing photos so I added my picture. Once he saw a reply he edited his post, pm’d me some really nasty messages. I’m guessing maybe a translation texting error?

  • Steven59Steven59 Posts: 8,176 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's why the term is Misaligned Die (MAD) - obviously ONE die is misaligned causing ONE side to be off center. Off Center Strike is - planchet is not centered when struck causing BOTH sides to be equally off.

  • KurisuKurisu Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So this would not be a MAD MAD?

    I know, not that dramatic but it was instantly noticable when it came out of the roll.
    Why couldn't both dies be misaligned a little bit?

    Also happens to have a little die chip on his hat :blush:

    Coins are Neato!

    "If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,283 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Really nice misaligned die strike.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,539 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2023 5:51PM

    @Kurisu said:
    Why couldn't both dies be misaligned a little bit?

    Based on what was posted earlier, the anvil die is fixed and is in conjuction with the collar. Then other die is the one that can be misaligned.

    I suppose the anvil die could be (?) almost microscopically misaligned but not to the extent that the design drifts off the edge, due to the necessity of working within the collar.

  • KurisuKurisu Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:

    @Kurisu said:

    >

    Why couldn't both dies be misaligned a little bit?

    Based on what was posted earlier, the anvil die is fixed and is I'm conjuction with the collar. Then other die is the one that can be misaligned.

    I suppose the anvil die could be (?) almost microscopically misaligned but not to the extent that the design drifts off the edge, due thw necessity of working within the collar.

    Helpful.
    I assumed that the anvil die could also be similarly misaligned.

    Coins are Neato!

    "If it's a penny for your thoughts and you put in your two cents worth, then someone...somewhere...is making a penny." - Steven Wright

  • silviosisilviosi Posts: 444 ✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2023 5:28PM

    Thanks to all for wow so pertinent answers. I will explain later here what we find, How was happened????, the coins do not speak, just show what has.

    When I come here, I exscuse for those peoples who told translate. I do not come here to wrote scientifcs papers. I am sorry, my mind go faster then I can tape (Oakstar amd Alonski)

    Due to the maisings answers from: Johnatanb, Xoins, Steven59, JBK and Kurisu, I was to my ex-forensic laboratory and perform some tests.

    I will not go into 6 hours tests we done but results:

    We use Mint Quarters Dies, Clad planchet as per the norm and Graebner vertical press as per 1984 strike.
    After many tests, we find out that the Anvil was at aproximative 32 deg loose and tild South, Apparently the planchet was close to normal but slight bigger which made the planchet not to fit the collar, Also very interesting was that the Hammer was also angled??, probably go loose from previous strikes and was out of axes 0.56mm loose in the hub holders.

    Value of the coins is nothing for me. The facts are more.

    Hope you undestand what I wrote, and I has not need to translate.

    Silvio

    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE. MARK TWAIN

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,683 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice misalignment.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,338 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jonathanb said:

    @Zoins said:

    @jonathanb said:

    @silviosi said:
    Thanks, JBK
    I saw misalignment on two sides but not this kind. I appreciate your answer. You are on the same line as Mike Diamond told me. I come with this because seem to be unusual, and I want opinions from rude collectors.

    There is no such thing as "misalignment on two sides". Misalignment BY DEFINITION is one side misaligned relative to the other.

    What is they are misaligned relative to normal alignment and both dies are misaligned at different angles? Is this possible?

    I suppose that's possible but it's hard for me to picture how it would happen. You'd need to have a coin struck with a collar. On a coin without a collar such as an ancient, I'd sooner call it an off-center strike with misaligned dies.

    For modern coins, the anvil die is fixed. The collar can move vertically relative to the anvil die, but it's constrained horizontally. You'd need a way for the collar die to move horizontally relative to the anvil die, while the hammer die moved horizontally in a different direction relative to both of them. I guess it's not IMpossible. I don't know if any die presses would allow that double movement though.

    I suppose you could theoretically have the obverse and reverse dies both misaligned relative to the plane defined by the collar die. Like maybe if the OP's coin was also struck with a tilted partial collar you could say that one die was misaligned horizontally and the other vertically relative to the collar. That feels like semantics though.

    Isn't alignment determined by the anvil die? You can't misalign your point of reference.

  • Steven59Steven59 Posts: 8,176 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    Isn't alignment determined by the anvil die? You can't misalign your point of reference.

    That is what I always considered to be factual.

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