PCGS should have a young numis program membership
Clackamas1
Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have my son, and a few of his friends excited about coins. They however are in the mid teens and the membership costs and submission cost basically take them out of the game. I submit their coins for them, I do regrade them to save them money but I really want to have them do it on their own. PCGS - please create a young numis subscription. These kids are into comics as well.
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I think that’s a great idea. I’ve been introducing my 7 yr. old daughter and 11 yr. old son to coins. My daughter is doing a Lincoln album and my son a Washington album. Rather than some crap on Youtube it would be neat if there were some kid friendly coin videos. History, grading, mints, there’s so much content but make it kid friendly and fun.
A pipe dream would be a kid level grading system, attainable for them in price, with gradations that would not compete in the “adult” market, but give the kids the experience and fun of grading.
When I was a YN, I went to the ANA summer seminar three times on scholarships. Their rule was a YN couldn’t take the grading class their first year. It’s a good rule, since it forced getting an education in something academic, rather than the commercial side of numismatics.
If YNs are playing with big enough coins to warrant grading, they can pay the fees, too. If they’re playing with inexpensive coins, grading likely doesn’t matter. I can’t look back to my time as a YN to see how cheaper grading would have been any benefit to me. If it led me to get more coins graded, it likely would have been at the expense of acquiring more for my collection. If it had been to sell sooner, well I could pay what everyone else pays or get a dealer mentor to help with submissions and maybe pass along a discount.
How would PCGS verify that they are really a YN?
I can see many dealers submitting their coins under a YN account to save money.
I agree with @airplanenut.
The first few times I submitted I was submitting cherry-picks, coins that would turn positive for me no matter what they graded out as. As I submitted more and earned more on those coins, I could submit more.
It taught me to grade, it taught me to know what coins were original, dipped, super attractive, ugly, etc. There are places like Witter U where kids can express their love of coins for free. Making it in the grading game takes a some chance and a lot of knowledge, and a considerable amount of skill. YNs who want to play that game have to recognize that risk and accept the consequences. When done right, the reward is exceptional.
Coin Photographer.
We remember - you were a teen and it amazing to see you grow. Good job.
You are however utterly wrong, IMO.
Just a young numis category, you get the coin pop report and like 8 free grades. I am telling you the cost of grading is hurting the future growth. If you do not believe fine - but to save it you have to look outside the box.
^^ how would you prevent adults from adding their own kids and subsequently using their account for discounts?
Well this is a very compelling argument. I retract everything I said.
@Extremeengineer The US Mint has some pretty good kid friendly videos. I use them in my classroom with my fifth graders.
And what is to stop the parent from submitting coins through their child's free account? If you have 4 kids, you could get 32 free submissions through the accounts of your 4 non-collecting kids. And if you're really enterprising, you could get dozens more through the non-collecting children of your siblings and friends.
When if it is a YN submitting, why should PCGS give them free slabs for their pocket change? Removing the cost of grading also removes the need to screen your submissions.
I think you might want to look outside the slab rather than the box. Raw is an option as is buying already slabbed.
So what!- if you have to solve for everything; you find yourself in an impossible spot. I find it madening with that attitude - we can't do X because maybe someone cheats. Who the eff cares? You can't be perfect - but you can be better.
Too many gamer collectors in the numismatic ranks. PCGS has enough gamers to deal with. Why invite more under the pretext of a YN program?
Raw is an option as is buying already slabbed.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
As a YN, I don’t see a need for it. If they really wants to submit, they can use ANACS.
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
A YN-friendly submission program might have had a chance of flying with ANACS when it was an entity of the ANA. The bottom line is the grading services are all for-profit companies, so why on earth would they entertain creating a gravy train that has a huge potential for cutting into their bottom line?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
A YN membership should provide perks that encourage education, not acquiring valuable coins.
Teach grading with on-line self-guiding programs that teach and evaluate grading skills.
Grading competitions with prizes
Set and collection awards, (with collectible medals.)
Youth member tables at PCGS shows—one-day for YNs.
Adult over- involvement would present the same challenges as a science fair or soapbox derby.
Submit to ANACS. Great service, fast turnaround, very good prices. YN’s have options.
Successful BST with drddm, BustDMs, Pnies20, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty, Bullsitter, felinfoel, SPalladino
$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
CBH Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/everyman-collections/everyman-half-dollars/everyman-capped-bust-half-dollars-1807-1839/album/345572
And what is the BENEFIT in doing it? Slabbing coins is not the essence of being a young or old numismatist. Any collector turned off by having to pay for slabbing services is NOT really that interested in coins. The vast majority of adult "coin collectors" NEVER SUBMIT anything.
There is little incentive for PCGS to do it. There is little gain to the coin collecting community. And you've created a large potential problem for PCGS as well as raising fees for the rest of us.
Why don't you start a Go Fund Me to raise money to gift PCGS memberships to YN? Or just gift the memberships yourself. You don't need PCGS to do it, if you think it is so important.
When they do my 7 month old grandson will submit thousands of coins his 1st year.
Grading may not mean anything with inexpensive coins in terms of finances, but in terms of education, it means
everything. If you can grade a $10 coin, you can grade a $500 coin of the same series
Maybe for the benefit of all numismatists who are learning to grade, PCGS could offer a grading set of common coins - a run of grades (MS, or perhaps even circulated) for a specific series. They would grade a pile of coins in bulk, no TVs, just samples of various grades.
I can see the intent but like other's it's probably not the best idea. Most YNs don't have coins valuable enough to warrant grading by PCGS. It's probably better for the YNs to put their money towards their education in the hobby rather than trying to make a few bucks from grading wins. If a YN does have a coin they think is valuable enough to grade they should have a trusted dealer help them with it to reduce the overall cost. The dealer can also give the YN advice on whether the coin warrants grading or not.
Collector
75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
instagram.com/klnumismatics
I didn’t say grading isn’t valuable for education, but it isn’t the most important thing. There is an endless amount of history, art, and more to be learned from coins. Gaining some appreciation for that is a strong background for having a tie to coins other than one that is purely about financial gain. And when it comes time to learn to grade, you don’t have to submit coins. Just look at lots of them. Show and auction viewing make a great opportunity. If you really want to learn by sending coins in, the tuition prices are posted on each grading company’s website.
Agreed that collecting is not about financial gain only. But you said that grading didn't matter with
inexpensive coins. I respectfully disagree. I heard Anthony Swiatek speak at an ANA quite a few years
ago (pre PCGS, NGC) He stated "If you don't know how to grade, you are going to lose your Maidenform
or Jockey shorts." If a YN buys an "inexpensive" coin in AU for X and it turns out to be XF (or worse) and
only worth 1/2 of X is that going to give him/her a positive feel about the hobby. I definitely agree with
your take on auction viewing. I found that to be a great way to improve my grading skills.
Sorry, that wasn't what I meant. I didn't mean to say that the grade itself doesn't matter, but grading--the act of sending a coin in to be graded--doesn't matter. If you have a coin that may be worth $10 or $15 if it gets one grade or the next higher one, it's not worth sending in either way, and at those levels, the value of a raw coin will be fluid based on the buyer's assessment of the grade and, if selling to a dealer, the margin they want on an inexpensive piece. But a lot of this still comes down to how you learn. No one, including an adult, should be learning the difference between an AU and an XF by buying something raw and expensive with a big price swing and then sending it in. Yes, you can buy it raw and still not get the grade you expect, but that's not the same as buying it without any real knowledge of which grade you should be receiving (in which case you should just find an already graded example).
Look, there's no way you are going to get everyone to agree here. PCGS could, and perhaps should, do something to target, attract and entertain YN's. I'm not sure free grading is the answer. Given the cost of grading these days, AN's (adult numismatists) WILL figure out a way to game it.
Here's an idea though (this may similar to @JBK 's post). What if PCGS, at the shows they attend, conducted a YN forum/activity that would be akin to a Scout earning a badge? The YN would listen and engage with speakers for an hour or so about coins, care, precious metals, raw vs. slabbing, grading, value, counterfeits, etc. AND. At the end of the session, PCGS would give - only to the participating YN - a limited edition PCGS YN Sample Slab. Folks love sample slabs. They do have value. There would certainly be a low population of each. It wouldn't cost PCGS much at all to put a BU war nickel, Roosevelt, or RD Lincoln in a sample slab. Just thinking aloud ...
If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.
Tommy
Stirring the pot— why should TPGs have education programs? They charge the same for slabbing mediocre:
Sorry if I misunderstood. I completely agree with not sending in inexpensive coins for grading. I personally never send in
anything worth less than $200 for grading, and only if I'm reasonably sure I'll get the grade I expect (and most of those
submissions are vouchers). I think each of us misconstrued what the other meant. In pre-PCGS days, I never spent
more than three figures for anything. I sometimes think folks are too hung up on the "number" on the slab. I won't
consider buying anything that isn't an attractive coin to me, regardless of grade or sticker.
LOL