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Greysheet's basis for pricing

logger7logger7 Posts: 7,939 ✭✭✭✭✭

I've been meaning to ask about the old Greysheets when they were sheets in format. Formerly they said that even if a coin is raw and uncertified the Greysheet pricing was applicable. However have you known dealers who would base their buy prices of uncertified common issues on Greysheet? The risk is too great and the upside moneywise is too small. Dealers and collectors want certified coins.

I liked the way the Greysheet 10 or so years ago had percentages on all certified coins, from PCGS to NGC to Anacs, PCI, ICG and others as to what percentage the sales of a particular certification were bringing on recorded sales, from 30% and 40% to 100% and above. Where are we at now on what buyers are willing to pay based on Greysheet pricing?

Comments

  • coastaljerseyguycoastaljerseyguy Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When I sold a solid grade raw Morgan @ the local B&M, the best I would get is 10% back of bid, and that is if it was a semi to key date. A generic 81S would be more 15-20% back, even if the dealer agreed with the grade.

    I remember those %s on the first page, High, Low and Average bids for sight-seen coins vs Greysheet. PCGS always the highest, (80+ %) but thought ANACS was too low, (mid-high 50%) esp when all that was sold was the white soap boxes. But back then dealers didn't want to stock ANACs in inventory. Was based on 10 series (didn't mention which) with 2 grades sampled. Much better system today with online 'sold' auctions.

  • NickelMikeNickelMike Posts: 187 ✭✭✭

    Greysheet feels outdated to me. I believe eBay offers a more timely and accurate idea of price. Take whatever % of current of eBay sale price to buy at and there ya go.

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,435 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2024 10:52AM

    Greysheet is a wholesale publication and is also the basis for CDN Publications CPG market value / retail pricing. Dealer wholesale offers could be 10 pct or 20 pct back of bid, etc depending on the dealer, market conditions, or demand of specific item. I have both CDN bid and CPG market value on my phone. Using CDN/CPG is a consistent approach.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,229 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Coin pricing is highly complex and no guide can keep up with all the nuances in every market but Greysheet still defines price in "every" market except where buyer and seller are experts.

    Tempus fugit.
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,435 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 22, 2024 9:12AM

    For US coins CDN is the guide used by investors and professionals in the marketplace. Whether in the bidding process, as a markup platform, or simply extrusion of CPG source for competitor pricing.

    As an accounting exercise for my class at that time I had my accounting students extrude the markup factor above CDN Bid for various advertisers in NN and CW. The seller price / CDN bid = that sellers avg markup factor (muf). An excel spreadsheet with a table by seller and item (major dealers, etc). Then a bar graph showing the sellers and computation of the average markup factor. A brief description of items was also required. So blips in avg could be identified, analyzed -PQ, toners, etc. I still have it. It ranged from 1.30 to 1.50. The numbers don’t lie. So No 10c on the dollar does not cut it in the coin business especially when variable and fixed overhead costs are added. So anyone telling you it’s much less IMO wager they are possibly ignorant of the process, basic accounting, can’t perform basic math, somebody’s lackey, or simply pushing their own agenda. An exception could be some mega millionaire high volume bullion dealer, etc. I am working on a similar table for my internal use for eBay sellers CAC CDN bid vs their price.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,435 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 22, 2024 9:10AM

    Lol at u too.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • lermishlermish Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:
    For US coins CDN is the guide used by investors and professionals in the marketplace. Whether in the bidding process, as a markup platform, or simply extrusion of CPG source for competitor pricing.

    As an accounting exercise for my class at that time I had my accounting students extrude the markup factor above CDN Bid for various advertisers in NN and CW. The seller price / CDN bid = that sellers avg markup factor (muf). An excel spreadsheet with a table by seller and item (major dealers, etc). Then a bar graph showing the sellers and computation of the average markup factor. A brief description of items was also required. So blips in avg could be identified. I still have it. It ranged from 1.30 to 1.50. The numbers don’t lie. So No 10c on the dollar does not cut it in the coin business especially when variable and fixed overhead costs are added. So anyone telling you it’s much less IMO wager they are possibly ignorant of the process, basic accounting, can’t perform basic math, somebody’s lackey, or simply pushing their own agenda. I am working on a similar table for my internal use for eBay sellers CAC CDN bid vs their price.

    And where and what, pray tell, do you teach?

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,435 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What’s the matter you can’t work your own numbers?

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • lermishlermish Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:
    What’s the matter you can’t work your own numbers?

    I'm just trying to figure out how much to bet that you didn't write very much of that paragraph.

  • alefzeroalefzero Posts: 854 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Greysheet works for commodity coins, like common date Morgan dollars. Anyone who is serious and chasing rare coins considers recent sales primarily. And for those so rarely on the market, a price guide would be a wild-ass guess, at best. Just like auction estimates on prime rarities. Often, they might as well be opening bids. But so much goes into it, depending on the specific market. How many collectors are buying at that level and need that coin? Provenance, presentation, appropriateness to a set, ... many things can warrant a premium. For something thinly traded, it always comes down to the resilience of the seller and buyer.

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