So Called Dollar guys... need some help on this one! Off metal HK109b? Subtropical Expo

tincup

This medal looks like the HK 109b, 1888 Subtropical Expo in Jacksonville Fla. on both sides. BUT.... It is a different metal than the listed brass; weight is around 13.1 grams, width is slightly larger than 35mm, and non magnetic. The metal is somewhat soft, can be nicked with fingernail, but does not seem to be pure lead? Looks like it has been buried for quite some time, and has corrosion as photos show.

So what is it? Pot metal of some sort, lead alloy? Were there any trial strikes made? Seems to be rather unusual... any thoughts or opinions appreciated.

tincup

I'm definitely a novice with these! Looking more on line... not listed in HK? but saw another reference number of 1888 · SH 5-11 BZ · Bronze, for the 1888 Sub Tropical Exposition in Florida. But... still puzzled by what the metal is.

MedalCollector

It might be HK unlisted in this metal. It is more than likely what is widely considered “white metal”. It’s a soft, reactive metal that often does not age well. This one is worse than most.

tokenpro

Hibler & Kappen did not list any of the Florida Sub-Tropical medals in their catalog - HK-109b would be a non-existent sub-variety of a U.S. Centennial medal of 1876.

Hyder & Shevlin do list both metal varieties of the 1888 medals in their recent expo catalog. They list the white metal variety as a Rarity-9 (!) which IMHO is way overrated as it shows up much more often than the bronze "R-8" variety (although seldom in anywhere near optimal condition). There are also white metal medals from the other two years of this expo but I do not recall their size to see if they fit the inconsistent HK criteria for inclusion in the catalog.

tincup

Many thanks tokenpro.... good information. Looks like I will be getting a copy of Hyder $ Shevlin; sounds like an interesting reference.

tokenpro

@tincup said:
Many thanks tokenpro.... good information. Looks like I will be getting a copy of Hyder $ Shevlin; sounds like an interesting reference.

FYI - the recent Hyder-Shevlin work only covers U.S. Expositions large and small that fit their So-Called $ definition - attractive catalog, pretty decent coverage but it covers only the expo portion of the original Hibler-Kappen listings plus their new expo additions..

Maywood

I don't see any HK-109b as @tokenpro stated, but the obverse matches HK-607 which is a reverse dated medal from 1886. That leads me to view it as a mule of some sort. I had not heard of the Subtropical Expo. The medal itself is in such poor condition that I don't see any value in it.

Namvet69

I dunno, that portrait is kinda nice

tincup

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose. Certainly not an item for the MS70 collectors.

Though this example is about as bad as you can get, and still be able to identify it.... to me it is still a neat find for an uncommon item.

tokenpro

@Maywood said:
I don't see any HK-109b as @tokenpro stated, but the obverse matches HK-607 which is a reverse dated medal from 1886. That leads me to view it as a mule of some sort. I had not heard of the Subtropical Expo. The medal itself is in such poor condition that I don't see any value in it.

It's not a mule as the Kretschman Liberty Head die has been used on several other expo medals including a Southern Expo piece, a Minneapolis Industrial Expo piece and more. It should more properly be considered a stock die due to its multiple similar usages from the same die sinker.