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Ohtani to Dodgers - Does same market as Angels = Stable card Prices?

82FootballWaxMemorys82FootballWaxMemorys Posts: 1,267 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited December 9, 2023 12:54PM in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum

My feeling is LA will dominate the regular season then again quickly fade in first round of Post-Season. IMHO no real boost for Ohtani cards unless Dodgers pile up some Post-Season victory's next year with Ohtani being a solid contributor in those wins.

Unless otherwise specified my posts represent only my opinion, not fact.

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Comments

  • ndleondleo Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Dodgers and Angels are not the same market. Anyone who lives in SoCal knows that. The Dodgers are the #1 team in LA.

    Mike
  • 82FootballWaxMemorys82FootballWaxMemorys Posts: 1,267 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Really, Not the same media market in effect?

    Yeah Dodgers get far more attention of course but I figure it's a Yankees / Mets situation

    Unless otherwise specified my posts represent only my opinion, not fact.

  • 1948_Swell_Robinson1948_Swell_Robinson Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭✭

    Dodger blue is an upgrade.

  • 1948_Swell_Robinson1948_Swell_Robinson Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2023 1:50PM

    In the last seven years they have been to the World Series three times. Been eliminated in the first round three times. Eliminatediin the LCS one time.

    Their organization is there to try and win. That is not true for all organizations. If they have a rare off year they come right back the next year. They don't go into a tank and rebuild like other teams do. They are the model of consistent excellence.

  • azvikeazvike Posts: 346 ✭✭✭

    Baseball sucks...the rich always get richer...totally anti-competitive...NBA sucks with buddies forming "super teams". Only the NFL has gotten it right from a competition standpoint. Rant over, carry on....

  • 1948_Swell_Robinson1948_Swell_Robinson Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭✭

    @azvike said:
    Baseball sucks...the rich always get richer...totally anti-competitive...NBA sucks with buddies forming "super teams". Only the NFL has gotten it right from a competition standpoint. Rant over, carry on....

    To a degree. Some teams are there just to make money. Some teams just have awful decision makers in player personnel and scouting.

    Some teams have great scouting and consistently produce prospects to play for them and ones to trade to other team like the Dodgers do.

    Teams like the White Sox still operate like they are in medieval times and has nothing to do with being rich but rather being cheap and not baseball smart.

  • 1948_Swell_Robinson1948_Swell_Robinson Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭✭

    Dodgers won 100 games last year without their Ace pitcher(Walker Buehler), their second future Ace(Dustin May) and their promising young SS who can hit(and will be a good one) who also missed the entire season(Gavin Lux).

    All those players missed the playoffs too and Urias got suspended and also missed the playoffs(that was on him) so it really wasn't a surprise the Dodgers got knocked off this year in the playoffs as their pitching was in shambles and they had holes in their lineup.

    Buehler will be back. Dustin May back in second half. Lux will be back to plug that huge hole at SS. Betts moving to 2B full time. More young pitchers still developing.

    Dodgers will be tough with Ohtani.

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 2,864 ✭✭✭✭✭

    if your team isnt in the right market move. tennessee has 2 open spots, south carolina, virginia and north carolina too.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • jordangretzkyfanjordangretzkyfan Posts: 2,365 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ohtani values will head upwards now that he is on a contending team. Next big jump in his value will be an MVP award with the Dodgers and/or a World Series appearance. If the Dodgers win it in 2024, his cards will be on fire again. Big market teams yield big market spenders. Look no further than the Yankees, followed closely by the Dodgers and Cubs.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,265 ✭✭✭✭✭

    dodgers are stacked. especially with the pitching coming back next year. they have a huge 3 in their lineup. definitely WS favorites.

    I would think the move will be good for Ohtani cards. bigger more historical team, and certainly playing in the playoffs.

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • I've been waiting for this ever since I pulled his Topps Chrome Saphire parallel and days later was on the injury list.
    I anticipate his cards will spike momentarily and then level off until the post season where his performance will make or break his record numbers.

    I imagine he will get record Jersey sales again.

  • Not much difference between playing for Dodgers vs. the Angels in terms of improving your brand and your place in history and the value of your cards? Your honor, I strenuously object. If it was Blue Jays, which it seemed as if it could be, yeah, does not help a ton. But going from a team that never made the playoffs while he was there to a team that may miss the playoffs once or twice for the rest of his career, that feels like it matters. Then in terms of teams that have a strong baseball history and are in the spotlight and are popular teams, Dodgers probably in the top 5 or top 3. Angels probably not in the top 15. So think it's a ton better. I mean you have to deliver but would it impact Babe Ruth's legacy a little if he played for the Kansas City Monarchs instead. I think so. I think so a ton. Both would leave their mark for what they've done wherever they played but Yankees Dodgers matters a lot.

  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,905 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @azvike said:
    Baseball sucks...the rich always get richer...totally anti-competitive...

    12 different World Series champions over the last 16 seasons says otherwise.

  • brad31brad31 Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ohtani is so special I don’t think the team matters that much but the Dodgers definitely a boost compared to the Angels. How he comes back from Tommy John is THE factor on Ohtani prices.

  • jraytayjraytay Posts: 106 ✭✭

    @jordangretzkyfan said:
    Ohtani values will head upwards now that he is on a contending team. Next big jump in his value will be an MVP award with the Dodgers and/or a World Series appearance. If the Dodgers win it in 2024, his cards will be on fire again. Big market teams yield big market spenders. Look no further than the Yankees, followed closely by the Dodgers and Cubs.

    I agree. There will be a short term noticeable spike in his cards since the big deal that will level off when next season begins. This is predictable and actually unusual as the off-season in any sport is the best time to purchase memorabilia. Fast forward @ brad31 above I think is valid stating how he comes back to pitch in 2025 will be the real deciding factor on his card prices.

  • McvillagehtxMcvillagehtx Posts: 103 ✭✭✭

    @azvike said:
    Baseball sucks...the rich always get richer...totally anti-competitive...NBA sucks with buddies forming "super teams". Only the NFL has gotten it right from a competition standpoint. Rant over, carry on....

    All the NBA has to do is get rid of the max contract concept and all that would be fixed. Let's say the salary cap was $100 million when Wade Bosh and Lebron got together. The max another team could offer them was the same max the Heat could offer. What if the Kings could have offered whatever they wanted to any of them? Would Bosh have turned down $65 million a year from Sacramento to make a superteam at $30 million a year? Doubt it. Extrapolate that out to all superstars and all teams now. The lesser teams could offer free agents $75% of their salary cap and the talent would be spread out now.

  • McvillagehtxMcvillagehtx Posts: 103 ✭✭✭

    @1948_Swell_Robinson said:
    In the last seven years they have been to the World Series three times. Been eliminated in the first round three times. Eliminatediin the LCS one time.

    Their organization is there to try and win. That is not true for all organizations. If they have a rare off year they come right back the next year. They don't go into a tank and rebuild like other teams do. They are the model of consistent excellence.

    They are the Junior varsity model...right after the varsity Astros.

  • 1948_Swell_Robinson1948_Swell_Robinson Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2023 9:48AM

    @Mcvillagehtx said:

    @1948_Swell_Robinson said:
    In the last seven years they have been to the World Series three times. Been eliminated in the first round three times. Eliminatediin the LCS one time.

    Their organization is there to try and win. That is not true for all organizations. If they have a rare off year they come right back the next year. They don't go into a tank and rebuild like other teams do. They are the model of consistent excellence.

    They are the Junior varsity model...right after the varsity Astros.

    Have to see how they do after this current run of players move on(or get old) because they had the worst team in all of professional sports from 2011-2013 and rivaled being the worst team in history for that three year span.

    Before that they were just an average franchise. They did hit their rebuild right after that horrid stretch. Can they do it again without having to tank again? Will see.

    They have one more year left for Altuve and Bregman. Tuker only two. How they navigate that we shall see.

    I think their elite run is coming to an end soon.

  • ndleondleo Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @UlyssesExtravaganza said:
    Not much difference between playing for Dodgers vs. the Angels in terms of improving your brand and your place in history and the value of your cards? Your honor, I strenuously object. If it was Blue Jays, which it seemed as if it could be, yeah, does not help a ton. But going from a team that never made the playoffs while he was there to a team that may miss the playoffs once or twice for the rest of his career, that feels like it matters. Then in terms of teams that have a strong baseball history and are in the spotlight and are popular teams, Dodgers probably in the top 5 or top 3. Angels probably not in the top 15. So think it's a ton better. I mean you have to deliver but would it impact Babe Ruth's legacy a little if he played for the Kansas City Monarchs instead. I think so. I think so a ton. Both would leave their mark for what they've done wherever they played but Yankees Dodgers matters a lot.

    The Dodgers aren't just the #1 Baseball team in LA, they are the #1 Team in LA for all sports. The Lakers may get the ESPN love, but the Dodger fan base is much wider and deeper. Go Doyers!

    Mike
  • lahmejoonlahmejoon Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭

    You have to think that the Dodgers are now also the front-runners for Yamamoto too. Not that they weren't before, but I think Yamamoto would value playing with Shohei. If they can pull that off, I have to think monetizing the Japanese market will yield huge dividends for the organization, even when their contracts are albatrosses in the latter end of their deals.

    I'm just curious to know how much of Shohei's contract is deferred. They've done the same with Betts too.

    Dang Dodgers. :disappointed:

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,128 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @brad31 said:
    Ohtani is so special I don’t think the team matters that much but the Dodgers definitely a boost compared to the Angels. How he comes back from Tommy John is THE factor on Ohtani prices.

    AND, if he can stay healthy. Two elbow surgeries and a knee surgery already.

    If he insists on being a pitcher, I doubt he has much of a career as a full time player.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • CardGeekCardGeek Posts: 398 ✭✭✭

    I get nearly all the Dodgers games on my basic cable. I don't get many Angles games.

    Seems like a lot of money. I read something a couple months ago that said his pitching days were over? So they're paying that much for a DH? The Dodgers seemed to have tons of outfielders last season. He does have a big name right now though. Maybe there should be a new baseball stat. Like, Dollars In Above Replacement. His DIAR must be amazing.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,265 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CardGeek said:
    I get nearly all the Dodgers games on my basic cable. I don't get many Angles games.

    Seems like a lot of money. I read something a couple months ago that said his pitching days were over? So they're paying that much for a DH? The Dodgers seemed to have tons of outfielders last season. He does have a big name right now though. Maybe there should be a new baseball stat. Like, Dollars In Above Replacement. His DIAR must be amazing.

    they said he is 100% pitching as soon as the elbow is healed. 2025

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,128 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:

    @CardGeek said:
    I get nearly all the Dodgers games on my basic cable. I don't get many Angles games.

    Seems like a lot of money. I read something a couple months ago that said his pitching days were over? So they're paying that much for a DH? The Dodgers seemed to have tons of outfielders last season. He does have a big name right now though. Maybe there should be a new baseball stat. Like, Dollars In Above Replacement. His DIAR must be amazing.

    they said he is 100% pitching as soon as the elbow is healed. 2025

    What's the over/under on the third Tommy John surgery?

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • mintonlyplsmintonlypls Posts: 1,688 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A monopoly in any sport is bad for the game. To hell…with free agency.

    mint_only_pls
  • BBBrkrrBBBrkrr Posts: 906 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I read one report today the Dodgers will make all that contract money back on advertising, etc way before he’s done with the deal. Estimates were the Angels were making about $10M/year off him while he was there.

    Smart move by the dodgers for sure. They’re committed to their system and will not go broke over this deal (unless he never plays again).

    And I am NOT a Dodger fan.

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 2,864 ✭✭✭✭✭

    the problem isn't the dodgers, astros, rangers, yankees. the problems are the marlins, rays, royals brewers. the bottom 8 teams need to compete, not just have the owners make millions while the team totally sucks year after after. if they don't compete make them sell the team, don't make them sell the team because of accusations and innuendo. the commissioners of all the major sports leagues are much more concerned with voting rules or political contributions than making their leagues better.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • ndleondleo Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @olb31 said:
    the problem isn't the dodgers, astros, rangers, yankees. the problems are the marlins, rays, royals brewers. the bottom 8 teams need to compete, not just have the owners make millions while the team totally sucks year after after. if they don't compete make them sell the team, don't make them sell the team because of accusations and innuendo. the commissioners of all the major sports leagues are much more concerned with voting rules or political contributions than making their leagues better.

    Exactly. I used to be a Tigers fan but the old man's son that owns the team now runs it like a small market club when the Tigers have (had) a strong fan base. They hit 3 million attendance a few times between 2007-2015 when his dad (RIP) was spending to win. The rumor is the son wanted to sell the team but kept since they make so much money not competing. The Tigers have had record profits the past few years.

    Mike
  • olb31olb31 Posts: 2,864 ✭✭✭✭✭

    if i owned a team i would want to win for myself, city and the fans.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • BBBrkrrBBBrkrr Posts: 906 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @olb31 said:
    if i owned a team i would want to win for myself, city and the fans.

    That’s exactly why you (and I) do not own a team (besides not being billionaires). If you’ve made enough to own a team you just want it to make money like everything else you do. Winning may not be in the top 10 for most owners. :'(

  • CardGeekCardGeek Posts: 398 ✭✭✭

    @olb31 said:
    the problem isn't the dodgers, astros, rangers, yankees. the problems are the marlins, rays, royals brewers. the bottom 8 teams need to compete, not just have the owners make millions while the team totally sucks year after after. if they don't compete make them sell the team, don't make them sell the team because of accusations and innuendo. the commissioners of all the major sports leagues are much more concerned with voting rules or political contributions than making their leagues better.

    They are competing at baseball. They're not competing at spending. The players are all accounted for. If those teams were to spend more money, the players they're paying wouldn't change.

  • PatriotTradingPatriotTrading Posts: 137 ✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2023 11:59PM

    @ndleo said:
    The Dodgers and Angels are not the same market. Anyone who lives in SoCal knows that. The Dodgers are the #1 team in LA.

    I'm from Northern California and a Giants fan. I've been residing in SoCal the last decade. The two teams fan bases are not in the same stratosphere. For every Angels hat/jersey/shirt I see, there are 1000 Dodgers. Maybe more. That's not a joke either. I've lived all over SoCal too.

  • GrooGroo Posts: 38 ✭✭

    @PatriotTrading said:

    @ndleo said:
    The Dodgers and Angels are not the same market. Anyone who lives in SoCal knows that. The Dodgers are the #1 team in LA.

    I'm from Northern California and a Giants fan. I've been residing in SoCal the last decade. The two teams fan bases are not in the same stratosphere. For every Angels hat/jersey/shirt I see, there are 1000 Dodgers. Maybe more. That's not a joke either. I've lived all over SoCal too.

    In NY Yankees to Mets hats etc are probably 3 to 1 - Seems LA is very different

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,128 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CardGeek said:

    @olb31 said:
    the problem isn't the dodgers, astros, rangers, yankees. the problems are the marlins, rays, royals brewers. the bottom 8 teams need to compete, not just have the owners make millions while the team totally sucks year after after. if they don't compete make them sell the team, don't make them sell the team because of accusations and innuendo. the commissioners of all the major sports leagues are much more concerned with voting rules or political contributions than making their leagues better.

    They are competing at baseball. They're not competing at spending. The players are all accounted for. If those teams were to spend more money, the players they're paying wouldn't change.

    That's an interesting take.

    As a Minnesota Twins fan, it's obvious to me the ownership is NOT trying to win championships.

    They don't go after the better free agents (especially pitchers) and in fact usually trade away guys as soon as they become all star caliber, (Berrios, Arrias) and before they have to pay them.
    The only reason they have Correa at shortstop, is because tro or three teams he signed with, backed out because of his injury history.
    They got their new stadium and promptly got rid of their best players (except home town boy Mauer) and now settle for being the best team in a horrible division.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,265 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think a solution to this is to have a salary floor for all teams. In the NFL, each team needs to average at least 89% of the salary cap over the previous 4 seasons. the league as a whole needs to be at 95% of the cap each year. I think that is a big reason there is more parity in the NFL than the other leagues.

    this would weed out the perennial low salary owners.

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • DBesse27DBesse27 Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2023 6:57AM

    @craig44 said:
    I think a solution to this is to have a salary floor for all teams. In the NFL, each team needs to average at least 89% of the salary cap over the previous 4 seasons. the league as a whole needs to be at 95% of the cap each year. I think that is a big reason there is more parity in the NFL than the other leagues.

    this would weed out the perennial low salary owners.

    I thought MLB did institute a salary floor. Could be wrong. Googling now.

    Edit to add: you’re right, I’m wrong. It’s being discussed for the next CBA, but not instituted yet.

    Yaz Master Set
    #1 Gino Cappelletti master set
    #1 John Hannah master set

    Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox, 1968 Venz Sox

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,265 ✭✭✭✭✭

    unless it is something that happened recently, I dont think they do. I also think it is stupid to have the teams who spend over the "cap" be taxed and then give that money to teams who refuse to spend. I say give them a hard cap. ceiling and floor. If some owners dont want to "afford" a salary floor, they should be replaced.

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • CardGeekCardGeek Posts: 398 ✭✭✭

    Going after the better free agents just means offering more money. Even with equal money smaller market teams can't get players who don't really want to be in those cities. I would think a player would take slightly less money to be in a bigger market. The Dodgers are going to earn more money that the Twins could with Otani. It's not supposed to be a spending game. There's also only so much money to go around and guys don't play better just because you pay them more.

    A salary floor would mean that If you and I both own teams and I decide to pay my team double, you would have to pay double too. For the same performance. And if I didn't want to, or couldn't pay my guys double, I'd be forced to sell. Which doesn't make any sense. The salary floor exists even without a rule being in place. If you don't have any talent nobody is going to buy tickets or jerseys. If a team were really so terrible that they couldn't compete I'm sure the league would take action.

    Do you think these teams should be owned by whoever could pay the most? Maybe Bezos and Musk should just buy all of the leagues?

    There should probably be a salary cap.

    They don't trade the guys away before they have to pay them. They trade the while they have the option and can get value before they have to bid. If you know you're not going to win the auction, at you get something trading them away. All of these guys are replaceable. If their WAR is too high it's suspicious.

    I remember hearing years ago that at the time the Clippers were one of the only profitable teams in Basketball. I don't think they were winning. But they were making money. Lots of teams pay a lot of money to lose. Those losers are driving real nice cars and living in real nice houses. Probably have some real nice sports cards. Beautiful wives and girlfriends. Probably don't care at all that they lost. I think we're beyond the point where any of these guys really care if they win or not. Hardly any of them care anyway.

  • BBBrkrrBBBrkrr Posts: 906 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It says a lot about owners' attitudes about winning vs making money when the majority wants a salary cap but no salary floor.

  • pdoidoipdoidoi Posts: 431 ✭✭✭

    The large market teams have an advantage because the players will make much more $$$ from endorsements.

  • gorilla glue 4gorilla glue 4 Posts: 107 ✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2023 11:36AM

    It cost $150 to park at Chase Center for Golden State Warriors games. I can't wait to hear how much parking will be at Dodgers Stadium now. Also for those of you that have never been there before,tailgating is NOT allowed. As soon as you park your required to exit your vehicle and head for the stadium. It sucks!

  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,905 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2023 12:20PM

    @craig44 said:
    I think a solution to this is to have a salary floor for all teams. In the NFL, each team needs to average at least 89% of the salary cap over the previous 4 seasons. the league as a whole needs to be at 95% of the cap each year. I think that is a big reason there is more parity in the NFL than the other leagues.

    this would weed out the perennial low salary owners.

    It helps that the NFL TV contracts more than cover the entire salary cap.

  • GrooGroo Posts: 38 ✭✭

    I thought Socialism Bad, Capitalism Good.

    Salary Caps, Wealth Distribution, revenue sharing are prety near book definition Socialism! Shocked that there are so many Socialists here :smiley:

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 2,864 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Groo said:
    I thought Socialism Bad, Capitalism Good.

    Salary Caps, Wealth Distribution, revenue sharing are prety near book definition Socialism! Shocked that there are so many Socialists here :smiley:

    salary floor is correct. caps not so much. all the teams need to buy in and try to win. More competition is better. They revenue sharing because of items like the TV contract. Get divided up amongst all teams.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • BBBrkrrBBBrkrr Posts: 906 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gorilla glue 4 said:
    It cost $150 to park at Chase Center for Golden State Warriors games. I can't wait to hear how much parking will be at Dodgers Stadium now. Also for those of you that have never been there before,tailgating is NOT allowed. As soon as you park your required to exit your vehicle and head for the stadium. It sucks!

    No doubt. We had LAPD guys on bikes harass us a few years ago because we were just standing by the car and hadn't started walking in yet. They are SERIOUS about making sure you buy all the $15 beers inside and don't do any free drinking outside.

  • 1948_Swell_Robinson1948_Swell_Robinson Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2023 4:06PM

    Crazy deal. Dodgers can load up in the next few years.

  • ndleondleo Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You can't say that he doesn't want to win. The Dodgers needs one more starting pitcher and they can get one now.

    Is the Japanese ace as good as they say he is? I know they talk about him a lot on the NY Sports shows I listen to.

    Mike
  • ndleondleo Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From an article -
    The deferrals also aid Ohtani from a taxpayer's perspective. If he's not living in California by the time the lucrative checks kick in, he won't be subjected to heavy state tax.

    As a CA taxpayer, I admire him for not enriching the leeches in Sacramento, both parties.

    Mike
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,128 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BBBrkrr said:
    It says a lot about owners' attitudes about winning vs making money when the majority wants a salary cap but no salary floor.

    EXACTAMUNDO!

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
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