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My sincere condolences about Mac Jones and Bailey Zappe - RIP
stevek
Posts: 27,774 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
My sincere condolences about Mac Jones and Bailey Zappe - RIP
Their careers were killed today in a tragic game accident. They went out on the field.
Funeral services will be held after the season is over.
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Can we just keep the 2 of them through game 17?? we really need each and every loss those 2 can provide for us!!!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Unless Belichick brings in a recently retired QB or something, that may be exactly what happens. It's getting late in the season at this point anyway.
I don't follow the Patriots all that closely, but their third team or practice squad QB must be a dog with fleas for Belichick not to give him a game start and see what happens.
They could bring in Maholmes and still be bad. You cant win with a bad offensive line and WRs that cant get open
But Mac Jones doesn't help matters by throwing picks, I agree that the OL and WR's are awful but Jones isn't all that good regardless
check out Ren & Stimpy's numbers today
Yea hes definitely not elite or anything, hes just not this bad either. If you flipped him and Purdy or Wilson the Pats have the same numbers and the Jets and 49ers would improve. He should be average or slightly below not bottom of the league type stuff
...
Are you saying that Mac is better than Purdy?
Yes and if you gave Mac the talent that the 49ers have on offense he would be. Purdy would be out of the league by now if he had the Pats offense. Trent is by far the best tackle on either team, McCaffery, Deebo, Kittle, Aiyuk are all the best offensive players between the 49ers and Pats. At least 5 49ers offensive players would be the best 5 between the teams
It is very clear that you are not watching the games.
at all.
Back foot Jones is nowhere near the QB Purdey is. He cannot move as well. He cannot move inside the pocket as well. If you watched the games, you will notice that usually Mac actually moves toward the pressure in the pocket. he either cannot sense it or does not know the protection schemes, or both.
He has terrible mechanics, hence the "back foot Jones" nickname.
A well below average NFL arm.
Cannot make decisions under duress.
Is a terrible leader.
You actually think the 49ers would be 9-2 or better under Back Foot Jones!?!?!?!? You have jumped the shark.
Bwahahahahaha.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
If you think Purdy is actually better with a HOF and maybe the best left tackle in history, an elite TE, elite RB, two elite WRs I dont know what to really say. The Patriots best offensive player would be at best the 6th best offensive player on the 49ers. I know talent, I know how the talent around players impacts them. Purdy would be terrible if he was staring on the Pats and Jones would be succeeding starting on the 49ers. Hating someone from a team bias doesnt change their situations. Theres not a QB in the league that would be succeeding on the Pats and even with everything around him no Purdy really hasnt been that good
Not to pile on about Mac Jones...oh what the yell, why not. 😆
Sometimes I enjoy watching the press conferences of various teams and players after the games. I realize I'm possibly nit-picking, but I never liked the attitude of Jones in those press conferences. He's got sort of a downbeat personality which isn't what I want to see in a QB. Introverted is okay, but downbeat isn't.
Other player positions, who cares how they act in press conferences. As long as they performed during the game, all is okay. But QB's need to have leadership ability, especially when a game is close, and in my opinion, at least right now, Jones doesn't have it.
no, no. Pile on. feel free!!
you are correct about back foot jones. his body language is absolutely putrid. he is the opposite of a leader. he never brings those around him up, he needs little pep talks from the coaches to get himself ready.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
again. you are not watching the patriots games. you cant be. i believe you to be the only person left in america who thinks old back foot has the "talent" to be an NFL QB.
He does not have the physical talent.
he does not have the poise/confidence
he does not have leadership qualities
he cannot perform under duress
to add. you said above that if back foot was on the 49ers, they would be better. so at worst, 9-2.
you do not know talent. you think you do, but you dont. you have to watch the games.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I get that you hate him because hes the QB on your failing team. I dont have a bias like Pats fans do. Youd be saying the same thing for 25 other QBs with the offensive roster the Pats currently have. There is a direct correlation between offensive line play, WR/TE/RB talents and QB performance. No one would succeed with their current offense unless they somehow became superman and could fly. The best WR on the Pats doesnt even get dressed for games, the best one they do dress would be a 3rd at best basically anywhere else.
What exactly is a QB supposed to do when the line can barely block, the WRs can get open, the coach is a jerk, and the majority of fans hate him and blame him so hes just going through the motions. He is absolutely an average to slightly below average QB in a horrible spot where no one would succeed. They dont even have running backs that can do anything.
If Bills such a great coach maybe he should start coaching some of these guys up instead of running out back ups and third down backs as his offensive starters
Andy Reid has said that he spent a full day with Patrick Mahomes before the draft. Mainly to see if Mahomes was capable of learning a NFL offensive playbook. Reid was convinced that Mahomes could competently do that, and therefore drafted him.
Mac Jones was a first round draft pick. In my opinion a younger Bill Belichick wouldn't have drafted him as a first round pick. But the older Bill Belichick did. In my opinion, it's likely that this older Belichick isn't doing the necessary due diligence needed to help with successful drafts. Likely spending too much time reading pundit reports on prospects, rather than meeting with them for extended periods and get to know the players on a personal level before drafting them, especially a first round QB. Like Andy Reid did with Mahomes.
Hes spending the majority of his picks on defensive players and trading up to draft kickers. Has nothing to do with vetting a QB hes just setting them up to fail thinking he can put anyone around them and itll work
When did I say I "hate" back foot? I dont even know him. I dont "hate" anyone. I can just recognize (along with 99% of all NFL pundits and experts) that He is not a viable NFL QB.
At this point, you are either being obtuse or have an amazing Mac card collection. those are the only 2 options I can think of for your allegiance to back foot.
You allude that there are 7 QBs who could succeed to some degree with the 2023 Patriots. then 2 sentences late you say no QB could succeed on the Pats. it seems you have confused yourself here. which is it? Part of the lines problem is that back foot either cannot sense the rush or does not understand the protection and often times moves into it instead of away. You do realize that a QB can make a line look bad dont you? back foot panics and makes poor decisions under duress. often.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Baseball21,
You are not watching much football, Mac Jones isn't an NFL caliber QB. Even surrounded by the 49ers talent he would still fail. Would Purdy succeed with the Pats? Probably not, but the last two years Jones has demonstrated over and over that he doesn't have the poise, arm strength, or ability to read the defense to play at an NFL level.
I have seen plenty of plays where Jones simply made bad decisions or poor throws. Those plays had nothing to do with his O-line, nothing to do with his WRs, nothing to do with his TEs. My guess is that you are basing your "analysis" on how Jones did in 2021 rather than looking at this entire body of work.
Robb
"Mac card collection"
Dam - I'd sure hate right now to be heavily invested in PSA 10 Mac Jones rookie cards. 😐
Im not confused at all. I gave the Pats to much credit early on when I said maybe 7. Its clear now that none can. The only chance would be for a runner to just take off all the time. You cant throw the ball to WRs that cant get open and they dont even have good RBs. Elliot is a goal line back at the end of his career and neither can run behind that line. Theyre both averaging under 4 yards a carry but is that somehow Macs fault?
QBs cannot succeed with bad everything around them. They could have Malhomes with this offense and still have a losing record
Perhaps he bought this one!
https://people.com/sports/ohio-13-year-old-sells-patriots-mac-jones-football-card-for-100000/
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
by early on you mean 2 sentences prior? you changed your mind in 20 seconds? yup, you are definitely confused.
the defense can load up against the run because they know back foot cant get the ball to the WR.
by the way, it is OK to be wrong. we all are at times. Sometimes you just have to look around and notice that almost everyone is seeing something different than you are and that you might just be wrong in your assessment.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
He wouldnt fail with the 49ers talent. I would bet that I watch more football and sports than pretty much anyone here. The thing you guys are missing is that hes in a spot to fail, hes been in that spot for a while. I never said he was great, I dont know why people keep assuming that saying someone that is middle of the road talent wise is supposed to be elite.
The fact is they have nothing around him. He was average his rookie year and the Pats just kept getting worse and worse offensively with poor drafts not drafting offense other than kickers. Hes never had a chance the last two years and yes at this point hes just going through the motions with a coach thats a jerk to him and a fan base that hates him. He needs to get out of there to have any chance to be anything.
Again what is any QB supposed to do with below average RBs, terrible WRs, a bad line, a jerk for a coach, and a fan base that hates him?
You cant judge someone when theyre put in a situation to fail. The fact he was okay in 2021 shows that he can actually do it if theres pieces there around him
"Its clear now that none can"
That is simply incorrect. The Pats have had the ball with a chance to take the lead in the 4th quarter and failed 6 times this season. That is on the QB. Any semi-competent QB would do better than that.
The Pats haven't asked their QB to put up 300+ yards a game with 3 TD passes. They just need a QB that can perform under pressure and Jones definitely has failed at that.
Robb
Basebal21 either cannot see what everyone else is seeing, or he has his heels dug in so deep on this one he just doesnt want to take the loss.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Washington and the Giants are the only two games the Pats lost by a FG, the others would have required a TD or more. A great QB may have pulled one of those out, a competent one with a bad offense wont the overwhelming majority of the time. And yes you are asking a QB for a late TD when youre always down by 4 or more
everyone is entitled to their opinion. but everyone here is entitled to read said opinion and come to a conclusion as to how much -- or in this case, how little -- someone knows about sports. to sit there and say that Mac's teammates and coaches are retarding his growth is the stuff of legend. i can think of one person on this planet who thinks Mac Jones will flourish once he leaves New England, and it's not even his own momma. it's someone posting in this thread.
i have watched more Patriots football this season than i care to admit publicly. when i have, my takeaway has been that in four years since Brady left, Belichick has driven the franchise into the ground. to basebal's point, there is minimal to no talent on the field. but not to basebal's point, that includes the quarterback position. Mac's days as a starter are mercifully coming to an end. i have seen a sufficient number of plays where his teammates are doing their jobs, only for him to completely fudge his up. he is easily one of the worst quarterbacks in the entire league, and it has nothing to do with the JAGS surrounding him.
there are so many examples to choose from, but how about we dissect this little gem. i'd love for baseball to swoop in and allocate the blame. on second thought, how about we not do that and say we did. i'll save you some time: 100% goes to the guy who underthrew a wide open teammate in the end zone by a good 5 yards while moving backward............when he himself was only 15 yards away. you could live to be 500 and not see a worse pass than this. but i'm sure in basebal's mind if the valet at Gillette stadium parked cards straighter then Mac would have completed this pass to a teammate rather than to a Colt who probably experienced the most surreal moment of his life
@galaxy27 wait though, it must have been the OL. no wait, the WR got no separation. no wait, the playcalling was poor. wait though, the team caterer did not get back foot his required pre-game noodles (you know, the ones that match his arm) So much blame to go around.
In all seriousness though, that is Back Foot Jones at his finest.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Wow - what a very lucky kid.
Whoever bought it, might be selling it a few years from now on Ebay for one dollar with free shipping. 😬
>
"Published on June 10, 2022 09:25PM EDT"
In all fairness to the buyer, he did buy the card before the 2022 season, which of course is after Jones' rookie season. Jones did have a decent rookie season.
So perhaps the buyer saw visions in his head of another Tom Brady, when he bought the card. Turned out to be a $100,000 error in judgment.
Well he did apply for a patent for “TB10”
so he’s got that going for him.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Its funny that you guys keep saying flourish. Never said that. Said he isnt this bad and apparently some of you take that to mean that Im saying hes elite or top end. Im not sure how many times it has to be said that he should be average to below average not bottom of the barrel because of what hes surrounded by with those players
Again a QB cannot succeed without talent on the field. I'm not sure what the disconnect is. Jones career as a starter is basically over, Bill ruined him. Theres more QBs coming up and Jones will be a back up somewhere if he can get out of there. He never had a chance with how that roster was trending the same way the Jets have ruined a lot of QBs and ironically picked their worst QB when they were in a position to win.
Name me one QB that ever succeeded with a terrible offense around them. He already proved that he could be decent and has gotten worse as the Pats offensive talent has gotten worse and worse. Theres a correlation there and its just unfair judgments to put all the blame on him which some of you are doing and then for some reason acting like I'm saying hes great.
@Basebal21
"Its funny that you guys keep saying flourish. Never said that"
you are the one who said Back Foot would be AT LEAST 9-2 if he were on the 49ers.
AT LEAST 9-2. Sure sounds like flourishing to me.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
...
@Basebal21
Here's what you said about him to me. That he's not elite, but at the same time you said if he took over for Purdy the 49ers would be even better.
Maybe it's just semantics, but that's why people here are giving you a hard time, because it looks like you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.
@thisistheshow I think he is the only person on the planet who thinks Mac is better than Purdy.
ok, the second person, because Macs mom doesnt count.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I've also that that basically any QB would be at least a 9-2 QB on the 49ers.
People can think Im doing that but I'm not if you actually look at it. Ive said multiple times the 49ers have an insanely talented offense. He would be better than Purdy there and Purdy would be worse tham him in NE.
If Mac went to SD hed be okay nothing elite. If he went to the Panthers who traded all their weapons away hed be terrible there too. If he went to the Jets they would have more wins than they do.
Theres situations where average QBs will excel and situations where they will fail. Even Maholmes who still has Kelce is having a down year by his standards with KC letting to many of his WR weapons leave.
You sir, have jumped the shark. At this point I believe you have to know you are wrong, but you are clinging to your original claim. hard.
would Dobbs be 9-2 on the 49ers? what about Wilson? Jones? Ridder? Tannehill?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Craig wins best nickname for a player named Jones since ……,
Too tall Jones
Back foot Jones
Can’t believe there’s actually a debate that Mac Jones is a good quarterback.
Then we must believe Zach Wilson is a good quarterback and would flourish in San Francisco. Seriously?
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
really just one person believes this.
in the whole world.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Mac's dog might think he's a good QB.
I'm not sure if that counts as a person?
whatever it is that basebal regularly smokes, i'd like to know what it is, how much it costs, and where i can get it. if i need to sell some cardboard and donate plasma, i'll do it
cuz when he sits there and says a schmuck who just put up a 7 QBR against the New York Giants would be better for a team than their current QB who just had a perfect passer rating in a game, thats the kind of high i'm dying to experience
mac isnt good but he was better than this. he peaked and has declined steadily over the last 2 years , it tracks perfectly with the progress of bill's dementia
Wilson probably, Jones probably, the others are backups. I'm not sure whats confusing about basically anyone. If you want to start naming backups sure the majority would not be