500 home run club question

stwainfan

Does it mean as much now as it used to?
For example in top five1975 it looked like this.
Hank Aaron
Babe Ruth
Willie Mays
Frank Robinson
Harmon Killebrew
Now other players have been added.
Some added used peds. Thoughts on it?

DBesse27

Aaron
Ruth
Pujols
Mays
Griffey

On my list of “clean” guys, everybody’s darling, Mantle, is #11

coolstanley

I doubt all those guys were clean.

mintonlypls

When were enhancement performing drugs become available?

jordangretzkyfan

Greenies, which are amphetamines, we’re widely available and used in MLB by the early 1970s. Players would take them prior to the game to accelerate their cognition, similar to being on Speed. Hitters would talk about the baseball looking like a slow motion watermelon off the pitchers hand while using Greenies. Key HOF HR hitters who admitted to using them include Mays, Aaron, Schmidt and Stargell. Greenies were not officially banned from MLB until 2006.

craig44

@mintonlypls said:
When were enhancement performing drugs become available?

As far as I know, the earliest was Pud Galvin. He was a pitcher in the 1880's and 90's. He used monkey testosterone as a PED in 1889. This has been going on since the beginning. we can never assume any player was clean or not.

Greenies have been used since at least the end of WW2. It is widely assumed they were introduced to MLB by Ted Williams, as they were in common use by fighter pilots.

craig44

@DBesse27 said:
Aaron
Ruth
Pujols
Mays
Griffey

On my list of “clean” guys, everybody’s darling, Mantle, is #11

you cannot assume any player was "clean"

countdouglas

I've said before that steroid use was common in my po-dunk high school in the 80s. These were kids with no sports future and no reason to use them other than to impress the girls. Steroids were definitely on the radar as a problem in high school sports in the 80s. One of Josh Brolin's early films was a made for TV movie called FINISH LINE, and was about a high school track star that was using performance enhancing drugs.

Ken Griffey Jr. has openly discussed the enormous pressure he felt as a teenager being the standout athlete and son of a former major leaguer. He has also openly discussed his suicide attempt because of that pressure. To my knowledge, Jr. has never mentioned steroids, but I have no doubt that steroids were available to him and all of the other athletes that we hold up and assume to be "clean".

We have no idea who took what and when, especially when they were just young men struggling with insecurity and failure, long before they became the SUPERSTAR MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL PLAYERS we know them as now.

DBesse27

@craig44 said:

@DBesse27 said:
Aaron
Ruth
Pujols
Mays
Griffey

On my list of “clean” guys, everybody’s darling, Mantle, is #11

you cannot assume any player was "clean"

Agreed, which is why I put it in quotes.

BBBrkrr

@countdouglas said:
I've said before that steroid use was common in my po-dunk high school in the 80s. These were kids with no sports future and no reason to use them other than to impress the girls. Steroids were definitely on the radar as a problem in high school sports in the 80s. One of Josh Brolin's early films was a made for TV movie called FINISH LINE, and was about a high school track star that was using performance enhancing drugs.

Ken Griffey Jr. has openly discussed the enormous pressure he felt as a teenager being the standout athlete and son of a former major leaguer. He has also openly discussed his suicide attempt because of that pressure. To my knowledge, Jr. has never mentioned steroids, but I have no doubt that steroids were available to him and all of the other athletes that we hold up and assume to be "clean".

We have no idea who took what and when, especially when they were just young men struggling with insecurity and failure, long before they became the SUPERSTAR MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL PLAYERS we know them as now.

There were stories everywhere back then about them in the NFL (Steelers had a bunch talked about a lot). If it was there it was everywhere.

coolstanley

Will anyone break Bonds record? Career or single season?

Estil

@DBesse27 said:
Aaron
Ruth
Pujols
Mays
Griffey

On my list of “clean” guys, everybody’s darling, Mantle, is #11

You mean they wash their neck and behind their ears? And that they use Zest Body Wash with the lather thingie?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P21E3Y5Hg30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTMNu4AbvGQ

DBesse27

@Estil, you’re a silly goose.

Estil

@DBesse27 said:
@Estil, you’re a silly goose.

Would you expect any less?

miwlvrn

@jordangretzkyfan said:
Greenies, which are amphetamines, we’re widely available and used in MLB by the early 1970s. Players would take them prior to the game to accelerate their cognition, similar to being on Speed. Hitters would talk about the baseball looking like a slow motion watermelon off the pitchers hand while using Greenies. Key HOF HR hitters who admitted to using them include Mays, Aaron, Schmidt and Stargell. Greenies were not officially banned from MLB until 2006.

So commonly accepted that they even promoted use of them with Little League hitters. Kids taking the green ones in this classic M&M's ad that I'm sure most of us on the board here can remember being on TV:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=6p04OKvXEyI

CardGeek

Ken Burns makes it pretty clear that people have been cheating at baseball ever since the beginning. If you have never watched his baseball documentary, you should.

I don't think there has ever been or will ever be an era where there is no cheating or fixing in professional sports. I've pretty much just resigned myself to pretending it's not happening. It's disappointing.

PatriotTrading

It does, there aren't many members and its hard to achieve. Same with 3,000 hits. The only reason players who have hit 500 or more arent in are PED usage or are just waiting to be eligible. Current active players closest are Stanton with 402, Trout with 368 and Goldschmidt with 340. Attainable for all but injuries derail careers fast.

craig44

@CardGeek said:
Ken Burns makes it pretty clear that people have been cheating at baseball ever since the beginning. If you have never watched his baseball documentary, you should.

I don't think there has ever been or will ever be an era where there is no cheating or fixing in professional sports. I've pretty much just resigned myself to pretending it's not happening. It's disappointing.

This. players always have, and always will cheat. always.

CardGeek

.

Cakes

Judge has 8 years left on his current 9 year, 360 million dollar deal. He currently has 257 and should be able to average 31 each of the next 8 season for a total of 505. He would be 39 his final season and playing DH.

olb31

@Cakes said:
Judge has 8 years left on his current 9 year, 360 million dollar deal. He currently has 257 and should be able to average 31 each of the next 8 season for a total of 505. He would be 39 his final season and playing DH.

He stays to injured to reach 500, in my opinion. when he hits 36 - 39, if he play that long, his numbers will be in the mid 20's. I think realistically he could get to 450. You need to be like Trout and start hitting about 25 at age 20 or 21. and then blossom from there.

Cakes

@olb31 said:

@Cakes said:
Judge has 8 years left on his current 9 year, 360 million dollar deal. He currently has 257 and should be able to average 31 each of the next 8 season for a total of 505. He would be 39 his final season and playing DH.

He stays to injured to reach 500, in my opinion. when he hits 36 - 39, if he play that long, his numbers will be in the mid 20's. I think realistically he could get to 450. You need to be like Trout and start hitting about 25 at age 20 or 21. and then blossom from there.

David Ortiz hit 140 homeruns in his last 4 seasons, ages 37 - 40.

olb31

I think Ortiz is/was better than Judge. Nelson Cruz he a bunch too. Both of those guys are bigger/wider dudes. I hope you are correct about Judge, seems like a good guy.