Short Snorters from the 1920s and 1930s

THKCollections

Hello everyone,

I know it's a bit of a long shot, but I've been doing some personal research on the origins of short snorters and wonder if anyone has any short snorters in their possession that are from the 1920s or early 1930s. If so, would you be willing to share pictures with me?

Steve_in_Tampa

I searched here first but didn’t find much.
Then I searched a somewhat busier forum and found this. It has many pictures.
https://www.papermoneyforum.com/post/short-snorters-8614338

THKCollections

Thank you Steve! I appreciate the link and your time!

JBK

Weren't short snorters a tradition that started during WWII?

THKCollections

@JBK said:
Weren't short snorters a tradition that started during WWII?

They certainly became extremely popular, especially among the general American population, during WWII but they definitely started before then. Most people agree they started during the 1920s, by early aviators in the post-WWI era. The two major ideas are that it started among Barnstormers (one commonly told story is that Jack Ashcraft of Gates Flying Circus is responsible for starting the tradition) or among Alaskan Bush Pilots (with Joe Crosson's name being mentioned quite often).

I disagree with the Alaska Bush Pilot idea, and believe that the Barnstormers are more likely to have started the tradition (though I also disagree with the Ashcraft story, or at least some of the details).

BLUEJAYWAY

A recent newer version of Pawn Stars had a guy on with a really long connected together group of short snorters. Forgot how many feet in length.

THKCollections

Some are reportedly up to 20-40 feet long

MWallace

I have one that you're welcome to pictures of, but unfortunately it's from WWII.

snizzle

Have you tried www.shortsnorter.org. Tom sparks is a wealth of knowledge on these also really nice collection also

Tom

THKCollections

@MWallace I appreciate your willingness! I'm sticking to pre-WWII though in the hopes that I can find something that'll narrow down the origins.

@snizzle I have been in touch with Tom Sparks. He has been helpful and sent some scans to me!

vonlettow

This is the earliest dated short snorter I have that uses the term "short snorter". It is on a 1928 Tate-Mellon Funny Back so the notation and the 1929 date on it could be contemporary.

The identifiable signatures are all from the Houston Texas area. I could not find an aviation related connection (or any other connection) among the signers other than Houston.

THKCollections

@vonlettow My first instinct is that the date is contemporary. I've seen a couple of other snorters from that time, and by the National Air Races (in Cleveland) in 1929 short snorters were popular enough that newspapers were commenting on the organization and tradition.

Are you able to upload a larger scan that has good resolution? Snorters from that period should have some or plenty connection to aviation, as it was largely restricted to pilots in the early days. I would love to try and help identify names, if possible. What names have you identified thus far?

Thank you for sharing either way!

vonlettow

@THKCollections said:
@vonlettow My first instinct is that the date is contemporary. I've seen a couple of other snorters from that time, and by the National Air Races (in Cleveland) in 1929 short snorters were popular enough that newspapers were commenting on the organization and tradition.

Are you able to upload a larger scan that has good resolution? Snorters from that period should have some or plenty connection to aviation, as it was largely restricted to pilots in the early days. I would love to try and help identify names, if possible. What names have you identified thus far?

Thank you for sharing either way!

I have deciphered thousands of signatures on short snorters. There are only 3 that are completely indecipherable on this one and a better image is not going to make a difference. Those that I have a positive identification on are an accountant, a bookkeeper, a plumbing contractor, a bank vice president, a milkman, a purchasing agent for an oil company and a few others that work in the oil industry.

The lead signature is the purchasing agent. It is possible that they were all on a flight together but it is also possible that it was a company picnic or some other event. Unfortunately, the Houston Post-Dispatch is not available online for 1929.

THKCollections

@vonlettow it must have been a heck of a process getting through some of those names. I tip my hat to you! Out of curiosity, what are the names you've identified?

I do wonder if they were amateur pilots or if it had already spread to people outside of aviation by then. Most information I've read or seen suggests that in those early days it was truly just amongst pilots at first, but there are newspaper articles from 1929 that suggest or hint that it has already spread in a loose fashion so to speak.

vonlettow

This one befuddled me for a long time. Justin A Kiesling, Walter G. Sterling and Louis R. Kier were the keys to cracking it. From there it was searching the 1930 census in the Houston area to confirm the identity of the others.

William Edward Allen purchasing agent oil company
G A ?
E H Quickers?
P L Vandair?
W Osbourne?
Wilbur Roy Paris secretary oil company
Louis E Echols accountant
George W Lucas shell oil
Harvey Wear?
Walter G Sterling Bank VP
Justin A Kiesling plumbing contractor
Louis R Kier auto salesman
William G Rosser dairyman
Cary F Gross oil company bookkeeper
S A Smith
A W Grace?
Robert T Jameson shell oil landman

There are indecipherable initials in the upper right corner. My guess is that this person initiated William Allen and possibly the others. If there is any direct aviation connection, it is probably through that person. There may have been other notes out there with these same signatures as it is doubtful that this one was a one off.

sellitstore

How about this one in an auction closing on New Years Day (tomorrow). It's from NYC workers from Christmas 1931, so the practice had spread to the general public by then.

https://hibid.com/lot/181480680/a-1928-one-dollar-funny-back-note?ref=lot-list

Steve_in_Tampa

That’s kinda cool. I don’t know if I’ve seen one where everyone uses the same red pen. Thanks for sharing.

sellitstore

@Steve_in_Tampa said:
That’s kinda cool. I don’t know if I’ve seen one where everyone uses the same red pen. Thanks for sharing.

Someone probably went around the Christmas party with his/her red pen and got all of the signatures at the same event. It's somewhat different than your typical short snorter for this reason. More of a piece to commemorate a gathering or single event that takes the form of a short snorter.

vonlettow

While this is a great note, I think the point of this post is to identify notes that specifically refer to themselves as short snorters. Contemporary newspaper accounts indicate the term originated around 1925.

There are examples of notes carrying signatures as souvenirs from the Civil War, WWI, etc. While we may call them short snorters, the signers of those notes would have no idea what that term meant.

sellitstore

This was exactly the time period in question and close enough to a short snorter to be included in this discussion. Maybe a sort of hybrid piece at a time when short snorters were becoming popular.

To me, it's an interesting note, but not worth the price. If I thought that it was a great note, I would have posted it here AFTER buying it. It's unclear if it sold or not as results haven't been posted.

My experience with older notations on notes is that a single signature or name is far more common on these than multiple signatures. Often the name is documentation of who owned it at some point in time and not an actual signature.

THKCollections

I appreciate you sharing this sellistore! Although not what I'm searching for, I find it somewhat interesting to see stuff like this. I do share the same opinion that vonlettow expressed, in that there are many examples of bills with signatures from the time periods mentioned (I think even from the French Revolution). I wonder, sometimes, if the general practice of leaving mementos on bills is what sparked the idea for the short snorters eventually.

Thank you for sharing