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8 R 1771 - authenticity

Hi everybody. One man asks for helping about this thing. Is it real coin or fake, your opinion? Thank you.











Peace.

Comments

  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fake.

  • Sergey74Sergey74 Posts: 151 ✭✭✭

    @pruebas said:
    Fake.

    Can you explain please?

    Peace.

  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Sergey74 said:

    @pruebas said:
    Fake.

    Can you explain please?

    Weight is wrong.
    Silver composition is wrong.
    Small lumps of raised metal all over (especially visible on shield side).
    Planchet seems funky, maybe cast.
    Lions are dissimilar.
    Spacing of the letters in the legend are inconsistent (see HISPAN or VTRAQUE).
    Positioning of the dots in the legend is inconsistent.
    The die work is just sloppy (see lozenges on the band of the large crown on the shield side).
    The edge pics are worthless to me because there is no frame of reference.

    Purely subjective is the fact that most fakes are about XF-AU grade to hide some imperfections.

    This is my OPINION. It's worth what you paid for it.

  • GreenstangGreenstang Posts: 725 ✭✭✭✭

    Agree with it being counterfeit.
    First thing I usually look at is the date and then the serifs on the letters.
    On these coins, counterfeiters don’t usually get them exact.

  • fluffy155fluffy155 Posts: 221 ✭✭✭✭

    It just seems odd that a counterfeiter would be careful to add the trace of gold that is always present in genuine Mexico mined silver then get the planchet weight wrong. My first instinct would be sea salvaged then polished.

  • A genuine 8 reales at 25.0 grams would appear very, very worn, and those trace elements are kind of odd. Plus the lumps others have noted and some of the letters like the C in CAROLUS look like they were not captured fully by an image transfer process. My take is a modern counterfeit made from recycled silver.

  • Sergey74Sergey74 Posts: 151 ✭✭✭

    Thank you men. It isn't mine. If anybody has something else to add please write.

    Peace.

  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I looked at a genuine 1769 in my collection.

    Forget my comment about the lozenges. My 1769 has the same non-uniformity there.

  • Sergey74Sergey74 Posts: 151 ✭✭✭

    @pruebas said:
    I looked at a genuine 1769 in my collection.

    Forget my comment about the lozenges. My 1769 has the same non-uniformity there.

    But are you still sure this is a copy? I heard that real coin has some gold in silver composition like this thing. One man in russian forum wrote about restoration but he wasn't sure.

    Peace.

  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Sergey74 said:

    @pruebas said:
    I looked at a genuine 1769 in my collection.

    Forget my comment about the lozenges. My 1769 has the same non-uniformity there.

    But are you still sure this is a copy? I heard that real coin has some gold in silver composition like this thing. One man in russian forum wrote about restoration but he wasn't sure.

    I think he should send the coin to PCGS and not rely on a bunch of keyboard jockeys (myself included) giving authenticity opinions without holding the coin in-hand.

  • realeswatcherrealeswatcher Posts: 339 ✭✭✭

    -- There are way too many extra metal appendages on the legend lettering/devices (and not in the way die rust would present).

    -- There are unstruck areas on the legend letters ("C" in CAROLUS, "G" of "D.G.") which present way more like incomplete design transfer rather than a worn die or poor strike.

    -- More damningly, too many individual "discrete" pores in the surface with no notable corrosion around them.

    -- Whatever is going on the with the edge/denticles around "REX" can only be a removed mount mark or a result of sloppy casting.

    -- Regarding the weight, the piece really should show more significant porosity to have lost roughly 2g to environmental impact. That's not "absolute", but probable.

    -- Edge pattern looks decent at first glance, but there are spots where it seems like the design was "touched up" by hand.

    All told, almost certainly cast. Certainly a piece that could be passed off as salvage to a non-expert.

    ..............

    I heard that real coin has some gold in silver composition like this thing.

    Are you familiar with the saying "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"?

  • Sergey74Sergey74 Posts: 151 ✭✭✭

    @realeswatcher said:

    Are you familiar with the saying "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"?

    No but it's very correct phrase. So i ask another men because i don't collect it.
    Thank everybody, the owner has read the theme.

    Peace.

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