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I don’t believe this!

I think PCGS should take another look at this grading submission. The graders likely made a mistake saying the other 2 coins were counterfeit. Unless verified that the metal tested were not silver, the chances of the coins being faked is highly unlikely. This is because not only do the coins look exactly the same in their design, but they are very limited edition PROOF coins that few are knowledgeable about, much less create realistic replica versions of.

How often are modern proofs from Gibraltar counterfeited? The 3 coins came from the same batch and they look the same except for the differences in design. What is going on here?
You’ve got to be kidding me.

I am convinced a mistake was made and
Should be corrected, because this kind of mistake is really unacceptable for any grading service.

It wouldn’t surprise me if they mixed up 2 actual counterfeits and graded them as authentic.

Comments

  • GreenstangGreenstang Posts: 708 ✭✭✭✭

    Could you show us some pictures?
    Hard to give an opinion without knowing what we are looking at.
    Also any coin can be counterfeited. There are places in China that if you
    send them a coin, they will duplicate it for you.

  • ApplejacksApplejacks Posts: 384 ✭✭✭

    @Greenstang said:
    Could you show us some pictures?
    Hard to give an opinion without knowing what we are looking at.
    Also any coin can be counterfeited. There are places in China that if you
    send them a coin, they will duplicate it for you.

    Spot on. Pics would help. Good luck.

  • GemBUGemBU Posts: 12 ✭✭

    I haven’t opened the package yet. I’ll do an unboxing video and post it when I have access to a silver testing machine to confirm their silver content. The 3 coins in question look exactly alike except for the differences in design. One of the coins got certified. These are highly limited edition proof coins with encased jewels. Absolutely beautiful, and clearly not Chinese KOs.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You have been given an expert opinion by PCGS. You clearly don't like what they told you. Now it is time to start wasting time and money trying to prove they are real.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • With PCGS saying they are counterfeit you have to work with the assumption that PCGS is correct until you have evidence to the contrary.
    You could try contacting PCGS about it specifically if you think it's some kind of error.

    The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.

  • SapyxSapyx Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Did you obtain all three coins from the same source? It would be odd that if three coins were all derived from the same source, that two would be fake and one genuine. I would tend to assume that either all three are genuine, or all three are fake.

    Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one.
    Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"

    Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD. B)
  • GemBUGemBU Posts: 12 ✭✭
    edited November 3, 2023 12:01AM

    @RiveraFamilyCollect said:
    With PCGS saying they are counterfeit you have to work with the assumption that PCGS is correct until you have evidence to the contrary.
    You could try contacting PCGS about it specifically if you think it's some kind of error.

    Makes sense, but my multiple emails to them have been unanswered. I’m left in a tough position because I don’t have one of those precious metal verifiers which cost around $1000. Whoever has one is going to help me do an unboxing video?

    Anyway, there are 2 versions of these coins: the very limited ones with a jewel and the more common ones without. The different types of encased jewels may weigh differently. From personal research online, they weigh from 28.28g to 28.30g. The one PCGS said was counterfeit has an emerald and the other one is blue, probably a sapphire. There’s not a ton of info on these online. Currently, PCGS has only certified the one with the Diamond.

    https://www.pcgs.com/pop/detail/gibraltar/1283/1283?t=5&p=PR&pn=2

    Unless they are obvious base metal items, To say that my coins are counterfeit suggest there are genuine versions, which PCGS has certified none. Are all the non-Diamond versions fakes? Well, I have seen pics of the emerald version in a NGC slab.

    I am inclined to think PCGS made a mistake. When I find these coins to weigh 28.30g, it will be further proof they dropped the ball.

  • GemBUGemBU Posts: 12 ✭✭

    @Sapyx said:
    Did you obtain all three coins from the same source? It would be odd that if three coins were all derived from the same source, that two would be fake and one genuine. I would tend to assume that either all three are genuine, or all three are fake.

    Yes, they were from the same source, From a dealer I have dealt with over 10 years. I completely agree that the grading results are odd. The coin they certified already exists in their pop reports but not the other 2. But I don’t know if they haven’t already verified their silver content, which i will be doing. If they haven’t done that, they shouldn’t dismiss them as counterfeit. I’ve tried to reach out to them but so far nothing

  • You still did not show us the photos.......

  • GemBUGemBU Posts: 12 ✭✭

    @SilverPlatinum said:
    You still did not show us the photos.......

    It’s still sealed and I want to provide an unboxing video, but I don’t have access to a pm verifier which costs $1000. It would be better than just weighing it. Will have to call up some favors

  • @GemBU said:
    I’m left in a tough position because I don’t have one of those precious metal verifiers which cost around $1000. Whoever has one is going to help me do an unboxing video?
    Unless they are obvious base metal items, To say that my coins are counterfeit suggest there are genuine versions, which PCGS has certified none. Are all the non-Diamond versions fakes? Well, I have seen pics of the emerald version in a NGC slab.
    I am inclined to think PCGS made a mistake. When I find these coins to weigh 28.30g, it will be further proof they dropped the ball

    There are ways to test metals without using owning Sigma test machines. First you could ping test the coins with a wooden dowel. You could magnet slide test them if they are silver. If those indicate they are precious metal then you could call up local coin shops to see if they have a Sigma machine you could come by and use. I'd peruse these until you have that evidence.

    Right now the expects are telling you it's a counterfeit. Do your due diligence on your end, but don't go into it with your mind made up that they are real. Take all the evidence into consideration once you have done your tests of the coins metal.

    The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.

  • AbueloAbuelo Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Can try NGC

  • tcollectstcollects Posts: 732 ✭✭✭✭

    if the grade don't fit, you must resubmit

  • GemBUGemBU Posts: 12 ✭✭

    Here is the video of my unboxing:

    https://youtu.be/W4BpKwsvQ_g?si=LhwyBT3i2HE4pUXt

  • GemBUGemBU Posts: 12 ✭✭
    edited November 12, 2023 6:21AM





  • GemBUGemBU Posts: 12 ✭✭


  • GemBUGemBU Posts: 12 ✭✭

    I still think PCGS dropped the ball on this one. The silver tested out and there’s no indication that the coins in question are altered. I’m starting to lose faith in this grading company 😒

  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Save yourself some aggravation and just send them to NGC and be done with it.

    Many of us here have experienced PCGS problems with world coin attribution, probably due to inexperienced, new staff hired since the pandemic.

    With the auction houses using PCGS more and more for world coins, there is hope that these folks will come up to speed quickly, but it’s no consolation to us that have been bitten by the recent arbitrariness.

  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I should have added this in my prior comment.

    PCGS has limited comments they can use on their body bags. These are not counterfeit so much as they believe them to be altered. My suspicion is they thought the added jewel was done outside the mint because they are not in the Krause/PCGS database (yes, even despite the other one being there).

    If you really want PCGS to grade them, include a photocopy of the COA which (hopefully) mentions the jewel.

  • GemBUGemBU Posts: 12 ✭✭

    @pruebas said:
    I should have added this in my prior comment.

    PCGS has limited comments they can use on their body bags. These are not counterfeit so much as they believe them to be altered. My suspicion is they thought the added jewel was done outside the mint because they are not in the Krause/PCGS database (yes, even despite the other one being there).

    If you really want PCGS to grade them, include a photocopy of the COA which (hopefully) mentions the jewel.

    I’ll go with your previous advice sending them off elsewhere. Already out $60+ from the mess / incompetence/ misinformation / mismanagement quandary. Taking this in the chin as the new normal.

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