FINALLY - Found the 1878-S FS-802 Trade Dollar [NOT]
alefzero
Posts: 993 ✭✭✭✭✭
I looked at a lot of Trade dollars and this was a key frustration. While I never thought Fivaz and Stanton would have listed it in their Cherrypickers' Guide if its existence was suspect, I just plain could not locate one anywhere.
Well, I did find one. It is in lower grade, but that might suggest they were well circulated and the reason they were so elusive to me. I was always looking at the EPU motto for doubling, particularly on the first U of PLURIBUS. That seemed to make sense. Including a number of detail shots to help others who might seek this one out. UNITED doubling is the clearest.
Date shot:
Mint Mark (you can see see clear doubling also on the branch end and arrow shafts):
Lower Reverse Doubling:
UNITED:
PLURI (of the EPU motto):
While the FS-801 is quite common, except in the initial clash state, this FS-802 is among the great rarities of the series. I was expecting it to be a very underwhelming DDR, but it does have plenty of interesting doubling. I catalogued it in my listings as C-25. The obverse die (to be confirmed) was also used on C-2 and C-5 of the same date.
I would have included this in the Challenge 50 had its existence been confirmed before that was printed. It is in the Cherrypickers' Guide.
Comments
Congrats, really neat! Just another tough one for me to keep an eye out for😂
I thought it was common knowledge by now that F&S messed up and there was only one (FS-801).
I pretty much assumed it too. At least one person thought it might be a state of the FS-801. I didn't abandon all hope (just ~95% of it), and casually still looked at this otherwise pretty boring Trade date. This is definitely not FS-801 and is a little more interesting than I had expected.
The more I look at this, I think it's just an 801. Compare all of the pickup points above to:
https://images.pcgs.com/CoinFacts/38156541_44334595_Max.jpg
They sure look the same to me, but maybe there's something I'm missing. Look forward to your analysis to show otherwise, @alefzero.
Here's my 801 (courtesy of @OriginalDan 😝). To my untrained eye, I see a lot of PUP similarities also.
It is looking more like a stage of the 801. I certainly have enough if them to compare. I think the obverses are different though. Will look at them tomorrow. (Giving the coin to ANACS on Saturday.)
A rough look at images, I believe it is the same obverse, thus die pair. I also see the familiar break along the left (our right) wing edge, by the E of AMERICA. So this is just another FS-801.
This is a lot like the reported DuVall 1C Lafayette dollar variety (always end up being the 2C). Neither that nor the 1878-S FS-802 Trade dollar likely exist.
I agree - looks like the FS-801. Here are the date and mint mark regions of your coin overlaid with the FS-801 plate coin from CoinFacts:
I'm glad you're still looking - it's a series where new varieties have still been found within the last 10 years and up until your book was published, not a lot of knowledge was easily, publicly available. Please keep sharing and we'll try to keep helping each other out. It's what makes this hobby fun.
It does appear to be a distinct stage in that the two most obvious PUPs on the FS-801 are the 4/4 and the left doubling on the T of TRADE. Neither are obvious here. The right edge of the crossbar is typically very distinctly doubled, though the bar itself weak. Here it is practically absent. Probably this later stage is where the FS-802 listing emerged. Of course, all speculation still.
After comparing them, I don't think this is significantly different, just mushier in details than the detail on Liberty's seat might suggest.
Earliest state (clashed):
Typical late state, after two repolishings:
And this coin:
The 4/4 is all there, but not to the naked eye (or in eBay photos).