The Michigan sign stealing scandal
doubledragon
Posts: 23,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
Anyone know about this, I heard it could be the end of Jim Harbaugh at Michigan. Deion Sanders spoke out about it recently. Honestly, I don't understand why sign stealing is allowed in any sport, it's about as dishonest as you can get, it's cheating to win.
Deion Sanders on Michigan sign stealing scandal: 'I don't give a darn if you know a sweep is coming, you've still got to stop it.'
The biggest story of the college football season on Tuesday weighed in on the other biggest story of the college football season.
You knew it was bound to happen. The biggest story of the college football season on Tuesday weighed in on the other biggest story of the college football season.
Colorado head coach Deion Sanders was asked at his weekly press conference about the Michigan sign stealing scandal.
Coach Prime's literal first response was to guffaw. Then, he downplayed the significance of it.
"Everyone's trying to get an edge. You could have someone's whole game plan. They could mail it to you. You still have to stop it.
"In baseball, it's a little more pronounced. If I know a curveball is coming, I got you. With football, I don't give a darn if you know a sweep is coming, you've still got to stop it.
"I don't buy into a lot of that stuff," he said.
Deion then referred to his playing days as a San Francisco 49ers cornerback.
"You knew darn well Emmitt Smith was going to get the ball. You knew darn well Michael Irvin was running the comeback," he said. "You knew darn well Jay Novacek was going to do what he was going to do. And you couldn't stop it. It is what it is."
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I'm not sure Prime's holds up to much scrutiny. He said it'd be a much greater advantage for a hitter to know when a curveball was coming than to for a defense to know what play was coming, but it could just as easily be said that even if you knew Dwight Gooden was going to throw his vicious curveball, the batter still had to hit it.
On the other side, it certainly would've helped those 49ers to know whether Emmitt Smith was getting the ball on a counter to the right versus a toss sweep to the left.
But, he actually had to hit a Dwight Gooden curveball and defend a Michael Irvin comeback, so his perspective is certainly worth noting.
Comments
Apparently sign-stealing, the practice of gathering information on the signs a team uses to call offensive and defensive plays, is technically not prohibited under NCAA rules unless electronic communication is intercepted in-game. However, in-person scouting is explicitly outlawed by the rule book which is what Michigan is being investigated for.
Hes still awaiting punishment for recruiting violations that would have been just a slap on the wrist but kept lying to them about it. He wants to be back in the NFL anyways its just that no one has been willing to hire him so far. Theres rumors he will go to the Bears now that their president (who also messed up the B1G tv deal) is there.
This is likely another situation where a relatively minor penalty will be escalated for not being honest.
Missouri 14 OSU 3
I absolutely love Jim Harbaugh, the guy just cracks me up with his explosive antics and that he is just plain weird.
The Walmart khaki pants thing cracked me up @doubledragon 😄😄😄
Regarding the scandal I'm not quite sure I understand the in person scouting is all about?
Meaning you send some scrub to scout an opponent that is under cover and report back to the opposing team? In my book that is Bush league cheating and I got no sympathy for him if this is the case.
I could definitely see him running the Bears so if that happens then I'm looking forward to it lol
There was a rule passed to "save money", the majority of schools voted to overturn it but fell short of the percentage needed. You arent supposed to send scouts because of the "cost" where youre supposed to just use video. Basically the the way Michigan was doing it was just dumb which got them caught.
Its a very dumb rule and these multi billiondollar schools can certainly afford to send scouts to games, but It looks like hes not handling it well again. Its really not any sort of real punishment unless someone makes them mad laying about things
Missouri 14 OSU 3
Come now, Jimbo says he didn't know anything about the so called sign stealing
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
I don’t know much about the sign steeling. But I bet Michigan St wishes some one would have stole their sign before it flashed up
Just saying
Martin
My favorite Jim Harbaugh moment was when he tried switching to different pants and he got too close to a heater on the sidelines and his new pants got scorched! 😂😂😂😂
Deion is kind of saying > @doubledragon said:
Yes I forgot about that!!!!
Just classic Harbaugh!
😄😄😄😄😄😄
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
The guy who was doing the sign stealing apparently wrote a 550pg "manifesto" with his plan for him and a couple others to run the Michigan program.
Him calling it a manifesto was really weird. He was apparently a Naval Academy grad that was a Marine who since a very young age Michigan football was his favorite thing ever. Unless something new has come out it appears it wasnt as much a manifesto as more a plan for getting Michigan back on top and how he would rise through the ranks etc.
The rule itself is honestly pretty dumb but it is funny they were so sloppy about it they got caught. According to a law firm who claims to have more evidence about it their extensive group basically only cost like 15k a year which just makes it even more sad the schools that voted not to get rid of the rule citing costs.
High schools that can afford it use electronic communications, pro football uses it, even college baseball uses it, but its illegal in college football. The reason its illegal in college football is because to many coaches/schools vote against it every time because they want the chance to be able to steal signs.
More could end up coming out about this which could turn a minor thing into something potentially big for Michigan or especially Jim if they get caught lying to the NCAA again. It looks like Michigan is going to try and play the card they didnt know and it was a rouge employee but theres no reason such a low level coach should have been basically glued to the hip to the coordinators during games. Harbaugh has already played the I didnt know card like he did last time. Hes very likely lying again but if he leaves for the NFL which most people believe hed rather be coaching it wont matter anyways
Missouri 14 OSU 3
Supposedly they've voted to overturn the rule but with not a large enough majority.
It was something around a 54% vote and they needed close to 61%.
Theres more to it than just the rule though now that things are getting reported. Theres been rumors for a while, but reports seem to be confirming it and the fact the NCAA was on campus the next day to interview and take computers leads credence to them.
The big thing aside from Harbaugh potentially lying again while still under investigation for lying before, is that it appears its getting closer to confirming that Michigan was also sharing the info with some other teams. They had a big scouting and sign stealing opp going on and it looks like they were and/or were trying to share that info with teams that were playing other potential playoff teams to eliminate the competition. They did scout Tennessee and Georgia, Georgia was just so much better it didnt even mater.
The lying about it is probably what will get Harbaugh again like last time where it wouldnt have been a massive deal until lying to the NCAA. Theres too many coincidences such as their record dramatically improving when the guy was hired, giving up points on the first drive which are predetermined and use no signs then locking down, videos of them in the stands, videos of the guy on the sideline reacting and others as well etc.
TCU was tipped off and used dummy signals in the playoffs against them and never trailed a second in that game which was widely rumored but is now being reported. The NCAA almost certainly wont move fast enough for any real punishment this year if they are even planning one especially since Michigan has 90 days to respond, but the B1G commish could if he wanted which I doubt. This very well could be the end of Harbaugh though who would rather be in the NFL anyways
Missouri 14 OSU 3
he better not touch my trump 2024 sign
manifesto guy wasn't names rudy was he?
I guess i am in the minority, but I have never really been against sign stealing. I figure that if someone is able to steal your signs, you probably need better signs.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
maybe Jim Harbaugh should have used one of these bad boys.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Theyre basically the Astros of college football, its not that they stole signs thats the issue its how they did it. Advanced in person scouting is illegal and they had a network of people videoing other teams signs. Aside from schools being cheap not wanting to pay for it the only thing you gain being in person over game tape is being able to record signs that arent shown very much on tv. Everyone does it to some extent but they did it to an egregious level where even other B1G schools were warning out of conference teams about it. Harbaugh is still under investigation for lying to the NCAA and a former assistant that was fired is also still under investigation by the NCAA and FBI.
If they had just figured out the signs during games it wouldnt be an issue
Missouri 14 OSU 3