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Strange edge on a CBH

I was looking at this 1818 O-108 and noticed the edge had no lettering visible and it had an odd pattern to it…..my first thought is some type of damage, but thought I’d ask here to see if anyone has ever seen something like this.




Comments

  • habaracahabaraca Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would say PMD never seen such an edge.......

    the Pincher 1818 as yours is, does have something special about it, (some) but this is not one of them...

    edge is kind of cool though

  • jayPemjayPem Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Crazy idea maybe buuut…. Over struck pillar 4R??

  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2023 2:48PM

    What is the diameter? Compare the reverse to the G6 from CoinFacts, legends to edge. Also check weight. Looks smaller diameter, shaved, re-engraved

    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
  • Pnies20Pnies20 Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks as if it was Spooned and then they created reeding with whatever they used to spoon it.

    BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.

  • jayPemjayPem Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don’t have a pillar 4 handy, but here’s the edge of a pillar 2


  • KensCoins2287KensCoins2287 Posts: 158 ✭✭✭✭

    I compared it to a worn 1821 and the 1818 is 31mm and the 1821 is 33mm.
    I’ll have to look into edges on pillars and similar sized foreign coins…. That’s an interesting theory!


  • jayPemjayPem Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just a fun idea... its no pillar reale I'm afraid to say.
    The edge on those is rather fancy, lots of little tulips end to end.
    The portrait reales have circles and squares... besides, its a stretch on my part to suggest that the US mint did any overstrikes of Spanish colonials at all back then..
    Even though it was going on elsewhere.

  • jayPemjayPem Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭✭✭

    But, if whatever was done to it was done long ago, then it's still a very cool contemporary... well, not counterfeit, but a shaved coin altered to try and fool the public into accepting it at full value!
    I love stuff like that!
    I'd say your measurements and overlay with the 21 pretty much confirm it 👍

  • jacrispiesjacrispies Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The lack of a rim seems to be a huge lead to PMD. I like it as a novelty, but that's just what it is. Thanks for sharing your find!

    "But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
    BHNC #AN-10
    JRCS #1606

  • jayPemjayPem Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jacrispies said:
    The lack of a rim seems to be a huge lead to PMD. I like it as a novelty, but that's just what it is. Thanks for sharing your find!

    While not a huge score, I think that this coin is very likely a bit better than a novelty...
    It's diameter now matches that of a reeded edge half or a seated half.
    A gram of silver has been shaved.
    The added "reeding" may have been enough to fool folks who were no longer used to handling outdated lettered edge halves.
    I suspect it's another type of racketeers piece and a pretty cool one at that.
    To the right person (me 😂) it'd be worth somewhat more than a low grade bust half with a scrape might normally go for...

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,353 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like the idea of shaved and re-edged.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • KensCoins2287KensCoins2287 Posts: 158 ✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the input guys! I’ll throw it in my box of oddities. It’s funny thinking of someone going to all that trouble to steal a gram of silver.

    Another thing I wondered, do bezels leave an imprint on the edge of coin? Maybe someone had a “Reeded edge sized” bezel and filed the edges down to fit in?

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2023 6:52AM

    I doubt that the person or gang that did this did just one coin. The fact that he/they set up a machine to put some sort of new device on the edge suggests to me that this was a criminal enterprise set up to do quantities of coins. It also suggests that this was done before 1836, or not long after when CBH's were still in circulation.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • ApplejacksApplejacks Posts: 384 ✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    I doubt that the person or gang that did this did just one coin. The fact that he/they set up a device to put some sort of new device on the edge suggests to me that this was a criminal enterprise set up to do quantities of coins. It also suggests that this was done before 1836, or not long after when CBH's were still in circulation.

    Totally agree.

  • jayPemjayPem Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Could be, but the bezel wouldn't make marks like that.
    I assume the reading goes all the way around?
    Someone did it for some reason.. > @CaptHenway said:

    I doubt that the person or gang that did this did just one coin. The fact that he/they set up a machine to put some sort of new device on the edge suggests to me that this was a criminal enterprise set up to do quantities of coins. It also suggests that this was done before 1836, or not long after when CBH's were still in circulation.

    Yes! That 1g of silver doesn't seem worth it unless you've got 100g. Or maybe a kilo 😂
    It would be very cool to come across some more of these coins somewhere to support that notion.
    But I still hypothesize that these where done after 1836, when the diameter shrunk and the opportunity came along to "convert" these old halves to their new, proper size...
    Or maybe they were filed down to fit into early 1800's vending machines?
    🤔

  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Most of these would have been melted for re-coining at the Subtreasuries, this is a rare survivor. I suspect the caper did not last too long before the alts were detected by merchants or bankers.

    In my presentation at the 2023 Coinage of the Americas Conference (now on Youtube American Numismatic Society channel) , I displayed an excerpt from a 1728 publication that describes edge lettering and the primary purpose: to prevent alteration by shaving or clipping. I don't believe the OP example was a common occurance, merchants would keep a watchful eye.

    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
  • jayPemjayPem Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've noticed that my favorite forum threads often wind up involving Nysoto and/or CaptainHenway... 🤔

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,353 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The more I look at the artificial edge on the OP's coin, the more I wonder if the trimming and re-edging might have been done in a foreign country where U.S. coins circulated and where the local coins had a somewhat similar edge. Mexico, possibly?

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • jayPemjayPem Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cap and rays

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