Small White Anacs Holder Morgan "grading" set (progress thread)

U1chicago

Having seen a display at a coin show of a grading set of Morgans in the new yellow slabs, I was inspired to create one of my own. I have long been a fan of the small white Anacs holders and decided to make the set more challenging, so I opted to have all of the coins be in those holders as opposed to the more modern ones (I could have made it even more difficult and went with old NGC fatties or PCGS rattlers, but I'm not that crazy).

I decided that if this were to be closer to an actual grading set, I would need to have all the coins be from one mint (now I know that still has its flaws since different dates have their own intricacies but that is as close as I could reasonably do without collecting all of the same date). The chosen mint was New Orleans (why-simply because I already had some of those).

The goal of the set is to have one of each from Poor 1 to MS 67 (I'm fairly certain there is no 68 or 69 in these holders and if there was, it would be too pricey for my budget; even a 67 will be a stretch). There are also some additional pieces, like a PL, a DMPL, an UDM, a details grade (maybe several for different types of problems), and anything unusual that catches my eye.

The small white holder had a fairly long run, including the early ANA days. I am not excluding any; so there will be ANA, 6 digit, 7 digit, etc. For some grades there are so few options available that it would not make sense to exclude any generation.

And as many collectors know, the empty spots can be a bit bothersome. So some “hole fillers” could be used or some rules might be stretched.

Please follow along in the comments of this thread to see the progress of the set as well as additional comments about the journey.

U1chicago

I’ll start from the top (highest grades) and work my way down as I go through what is already in the set. After that, it will simply be whatever new is added.

First up are two nice coins, an MS 65 and MS 64. These coins have the typically nice cartwheel luster and minimal bag marks. Both are solid for the grade in my opinion. The 64 is in the more popular (scarcer) ANA era slab. The 65 is a later generation 7 digit slab. There is some toning that is a net positive to me but isn’t something that would garner much of a premium (nor would it cause the coin to be discounted-unless you are someone that purely collects blast white). In general these two grades are fairly easy to find in small white holders.

AlanSki

I have a similar project with the old small ANA/ANACS. I’m working on a toned denomination/style change set.

AlanSki

This would be good in your set…

coastaljerseyguy

Nice project to work on, good luck & success in your endeavour. Think these would fit nice in your search. Who said standards weren't changing, esp regarding the old ANACS holders.

johnny010

@U1chicago
I’ve been having this same thought. Recently at the Houston coin show I saw my first small holder and immediately loved it. This discussion came up with a broker/collector yesterday and he mentioned the genie on the back. I see you opened with a genie 🧞‍♂️👍

Great idea and looking forward to the progress.

BStrauss3

The problem, as you well know, is there really are three era's (Taylor Swift breakup songs)

ANA ownership

Amos Press XX9999 slabs and early all numeric - transition to market grading

Amos later all numeric - market grading

U1chicago

Below is a link to a good resource from a forum member about the history of these slabs.

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Y_6cj6X2v_ZbO4NrqlRLysVeJO1IgoqnAA51ErVhLf8/edit#slide=id.g13ceb62592e_1_672

Looking at the link provided, the MS 65 is a Gen 1 from 1989-1990 (ANA issued, predates the purchase by Amos) and the MS 64 is a Gen 6, the last of these holders, issued between 1999 and 2006.

U1chicago

Moving along, we have two Gen 4 (1991-1996) slabs. They are somewhat different with the text being more bold on the MS 62 and the reverse logos being positioned higher on the 62.

As far as the coins, the 63 is nicer (as one would expect). Although my photo does not show it, the 63 has strong luster and the reverse is semi pl (has mirrored surfaces that again aren't shown the way I took the photo). It is actually baggier than the 62 but that coin has a duller obverse (reverse luster is ok). Despite neither coin being super premium (although you can make a case for the 63 being better than average for the grade), I think both grades are fair.

U1chicago

@BStrauss3 said:
The problem, as you well know, is there really are three era's (Taylor Swift breakup songs)

ANA ownership

Amos Press XX9999 slabs and early all numeric - transition to market grading

Amos later all numeric - market grading

That is true and is the reason why I have “grading” in quotation marks. It’s a grading set in terms of looking for one of each grade but not so much for using as a representation of the grade.

yspsales

Love grading sets

I have done something similar with 1938d PCGS Buffs

Good luck in you endeavor.

may

Here’s mine.

For some reason the holder cracked after I cleaned it, I have no idea why.

U1chicago

Next up comes a Gen 6 MS 61 and a Gen 5 (1996-1999) MS 60 slab. The interesting thing is that the Gen 5 is fairly close in cert number to the Gen 4 MS 62 shown earlier, but you can tell the slabs are different styles-plus the MS 60 slab is larger in size.

These are slightly more challenging grades to find than the 62 to 65 range. And that is reflected in the fact that I paid close to MS 63 money for both. Fortunately the spread from raw uncirculated to MS 64 isn't huge, so I was ok over paying a little to get these in the set.

The MS 61 is a typical baggy Morgan with plenty of hits. The luster is strong. The MS 60 has fewer hits, although there are several bigger marks. What lowers it is the more dull nature of the luster-it is there but isn't as strong as needed for a 62 or 63 (which it could have made if judged just by the hits). I believe both coins to be fair representatives of the assigned grades.

pcgscacgold

Fun set to put together @U1chicago . Best of luck as you move down the scale to lower grades.

morgansforever

I too love these little suckers, something about them that I find very appealing. Good luck with your project.

U1chicago

@pcgscacgold said:
Fun set to put together @U1chicago . Best of luck as you move down the scale to lower grades.

Thanks! The lower grades are coming up soon but that it also where I have gaps since they are harder to find. The MS 60 to MS 65 subset was relatively easy to complete.

pcgscacgold

@U1chicago said:

@pcgscacgold said:
Fun set to put together @U1chicago . Best of luck as you move down the scale to lower grades.

Thanks! The lower grades are coming up soon but that it also where I have gaps since they are harder to find. The MS 60 to MS 65 subset was relatively easy to complete.

I would think so. Some challenges for sure. Some grades probably easy, but others hard and expensive. The reward will be a great set in the end, and the fun of the challenge along the way.

BStrauss3

Let us know what you need...

U1chicago

@BStrauss3 said:
Let us know what you need...

AU 53 is one of my needs as will be seen in my next updates. And then there are quite a few lower grades needed too.
Edit: I also had a want to buy post on the BST but have not received any leads from that. I'll bump it again.

U1chicago

Entering the circulated grades, we have a Gen 6 AU 58 plus AU 55 and a Gen 5 AU 50. This is the first grading tier where I have a gap-the AU 53 is one I'm still searching for. I saw one on eBay but was not willing to pay the $100 ask, especially since the coin had poor eye appeal (if it had good eye appeal or was about half the cost, I would have added it to the set).

These are tougher to find but still doable (as you can see I have three of the four and the last one is out there if I really wanted it).

The AU 58 is the best of the group. It has strong luster and a hint of wear. There are hits, so it isn't an "AU 65" but more of an "AU 62" that was properly called a 58.

The AU 55 has more wear, duller luster, and a bigger hit on the cheek. It's not as common of a date as some of the earlier coins featured in my set but that might explain why someone sent it in (although this is still not an expensive date until you get to MS).

The AU 50 still has luster (as expected) and has hits scattered throughout. This is another less common (while not expensive) date.
Note that the slab is not cracked; there is a shadow in the photo that gives that impression.

I think the grades are all appropriate. None are problem coins (you will see why I made that comment when the next group is posted).

pcgscacgold

Very nice. Hopefully members here can help fill in the missing 53. Now on to the 30's and 40's.

Twobitcollector

PerryHall

I always liked the small ANACS slab. They were designed with a 2" width so they could be stored in a standard box for 2'X2" coin flips. Also, they were big enough to house every US coin ever made with the exception of the Pan-Pac Expo. $50 gold slugs.

U1chicago

Continuing the journey, we have a Gen 6 EF 45 and a Gen 5 EF 40.

Both coins are obviously circulated with wear. The EF 45 is low end-not only does it have the appearance of being cleaned, it also has a significant gouge to the left of the chin (near the stars). I would have figured it to be EF details (scratched and cleaned). This was certainly an example of me buying the slab and not the coin since they aren't easy to find. At some point, I might upgrade to a better example for the grade. The EF 40 on the other hand is a decent coin. Luster is minimal as circulation has subdued most of it but there are no issues. I think the grade is fair.

U1chicago

As we enter the VF range, the offerings become sparse. There is just one VF 30 in a Gen 4 holder. There is no luster on this coin but it has a nice circulated look with sharp details (not quite CircCam but still pleasing to my eye). I think this one is respectable for the grade.

U1chicago

Last up among the core of the grading set is a Gen 6 F12. This is the lowest grade I have among non-details pieces.

braddick

Not to bum you out yet I don't think I've ever seen a PO1 small white ANACS slab Morgan before (outside of the few that have no dates).
I'm sure they're out there, just haven't come upon one.

U1chicago

@braddick said:
Not to bum you out yet I don't think I've ever seen a PO1 small white ANACS slab Morgan before (outside of the few that have no dates).
I'm sure they're out there, just haven't come upon one.

I’m also thinking it’s unlikely that I find one. Maybe it will have to be a net PO 1 (like another net one that will be featured in a future update) or I’ll just leave that spot open.

jesbroken

5 or so years ago, I started collect au58 walkers in the small white ANACS holders for a short set. Loved them. Lacked 3 and changed to a BU set and sold most of the more valuable dates and finally completed the walker 27 up ms64/66. Still have many of the walker and may reattempt the set again. Look forward to your progress.
Jim

U1chicago

@jesbroken said:
5 or so years ago, I started collect au58 walkers in the small white ANACS holders for a short set. Loved them. Lacked 3 and changed to a BU set and sold most of the more valuable dates and finally completed the walker 27 up ms64/66. Still have many of the walker and may reattempt the set again. Look forward to your progress.
Jim

That’s a cool set!
What were the 3 missing dates?

jesbroken

39 D, 39 S and 41 S. I only have 4 or 5 of the small white holdered Walkers left. I truly loved those holders.
I wish ANACS would bring back obv/rev grades and utilize the small white holders, as PCGS and NGC will not. I would definitedly be a buyer.
Jim

U1chicago

@jesbroken said:
39 D, 39 S and 41 S. I only have 4 or 5 of the small white holdered Walkers left. I truly loved those holders.
I wish ANACS would bring back obv/rev grades and utilize the small white holders, as PCGS and NGC will not. I would definitedly be a buyer.
Jim

I liked the obverse reverse grades as well. As for the the small holders, I’m not sure if it’s cost prohibitive to switch back or some other reason. However, it seems like Anacs could gain quite a few submissions if they went back to those holders (of course the important question is if that would make up the cost of switching).

jesbroken

Were I a company with a third ranking in its business, I would be searching for something that might raise my attractiveness to my market that appeared nonachieveable in todays current atmosphere. To take my product to a level that is currently nonachieveable by both my competitors and create a new level of competition might be something I would investigate. Just an opinion.
Jim

U1chicago

@jesbroken said:
Were I a company with a third ranking in its business, I would be searching for something that might raise my attractiveness to my market that appeared nonachieveable in todays current atmosphere. To take my product to a level that is currently nonachieveable by both my competitors and create a new level of competition might be something I would investigate. Just an opinion.
Jim

I would as well and hope Anacs explores the possibility. And maybe they did already with less than favorable results (not as much demand as some of us that are fans of the older holders imagine there actually is).

U1chicago

Now for a "filler" coin, here is the "AG 3" in a Gen 6 holder. It is actually a details piece where Anacs provided a net grade. This coin is also my example for a cleaned coin. At such a low grade, I am not bothered by the cleaning. The scratch from the E to the L of "E Pluribus" is more bothersome.

PerryHall

@jesbroken said:
Were I a company with a third ranking in its business, I would be searching for something that might raise my attractiveness to my market that appeared nonachieveable in todays current atmosphere. To take my product to a level that is currently nonachieveable by both my competitors and create a new level of competition might be something I would investigate. Just an opinion.
Jim

If you are talking about ANACS, shouldn't it be fourth ranking?

jesbroken

Not enough evidence to even rank CACG as of yet, but no doubt a major player. Surely, Perry, you are not saying ICG would rank above ANACS. I feel ANACS would rank closer to NGC than ICG would be to ANACS. Just an opinion.
Jim

jesbroken

I tried to compare PCGS-NGC-ANACS-ICG coins graded in 2022, but could never get google to obey the command. All I get is the most valuable coin graded that year, the winners of contests by each for that year and various other nonsensical answers. Tried individually to no avail. Am I just wording it incorrectly or is it guarded info?
Jim

PerryHall

@jesbroken said:
Not enough evidence to even rank CACG as of yet, but no doubt a major player. Surely, Perry, you are not saying ICG would rank above ANACS. I feel ANACS would rank closer to NGC than ICG would be to ANACS. Just an opinion.
Jim

Based on their track record as a stickering service, most collectors are treating CACG as a legitimate top tier grading service on par with NGC and PCGS.

Pacecar

Nice! I love the old "Soapbox" holders as well. Good luck with finishing your grading set. I will keep my eyes open for you.

U1chicago

Now for some of the extras: a Gen 4 prooflike and a Gen 5 deep mirror prooflike. My photos don't show off the mirrors at all but they are there. You could argue that the 1904-O PL is closer to a semi-pl and that it would not meet the stricter standards of today. The DMPL is closer to making the designation but again can be argued that it is more of a PL+ than a DMPL.

eBay seller image:

GC Image:

AlanSki

U1chicago

Two more of the extras are featured next: a Gen 4 MS 62 UDM and a Gen 5 AU58 deep mirror prooflike.
The UDM, like most of these, has very strong mirrors. I have held a few over the years and they always impress.
The AU 58 DMPL has strong mirrors as well and a bit of wear explains the grade.

GC Image:

eBay seller image (hard to show the mirrors-I could not capture it either so that is why I used the eBay image):

Cougar1978

Interesting - Am putting together a CACG Morgan Dollar MS Grading Set. Have already bought one a MS63. Plan have in MS62-65. Possibly 66 too. Will also be a display (advertising) in my case at shows. Asking price will be simply cost plus if anyone asks a price on one. May even expand to AU grades.

AlanSki

U1chicago

@AlanSki said:

I bid on that but let it go due to the crack and it looking subpar for the grade (already have the EF 45 that I think is overgraded and I don’t want another like it unless it’s super inexpensive).

U1chicago

My second effort at an AU 53 proved successful (lost my prior try)! I added this Gen 6 for a reasonable $51 (reasonable in terms of what I'm willing to spend for the set; most would still consider that high for a low AU common date). The coin looks decent (seller's photo, which is below, made it look a bit worse).

Crypto

Only one I have left these days

Morgan13

I wish I knew. I had several that I traded off to a dealer for another coin. They were pretty nice too.
Although I must say your putting together a nice group anyway.

Morgan13

@Crypto said:
Only one I have left these days

Who did your images?
They look awesome.
I don't mean to hijack this thread but I am thinking of having this done with a few myself.

Crypto

@Morgan13 said:

@Crypto said:
Only one I have left these days

Who did your images?
They look awesome.
I don't mean to hijack this thread but I am thinking of having this done with a few myself.

Todd pollock @blu62vette

He is the best