CACG now offering current members a crossover special!

coinbuf · October 18, 2023 2:19PM

Just got the email from CACG that any coins that fail to cross will only incur a $20 fee per coin. I imagine that will help to create some extra demand, and is a good incentive for high value coins.

alaura22 · October 18, 2023 2:29PM

WOW, what a bargain........................really???
I'll stick with my already stickered PCGS coins
A non-member

Morgan13 · October 18, 2023 3:32PM

Seems pointless to me. If I have a coin in a PCGS holder it's right where it should be. NGC not so much. I think NGC's grading has been very inconsistent.

winesteven · October 18, 2023 5:48PM

No bargain for coins valued at less than $500, as the regular crossover fee is $22. However, for coins valued up to $3,000, the fee is $39. Values over that up to $10,000 is $68, and up to $125,000 is $150, so for those collectors considering crossing to CACG, it’s a pretty good special.

Keep in mind coins would have to be received by CACG by December 23rd (but not sooner than October 23rd).

Steve

alaura22 · October 18, 2023 6:10PM

What am I missing here? Can someone please tell me why would you want to send in a PCGS coin with a CAC sticker to CACG?
And to boot, not be able to add that coin in the PCGS registries. And if anybody says to get the + upgrade you can do that by resubmitting it to PCGS for reconsideration.
I'm not getting it, please someone explain it to me because I'm confused

winesteven · October 18, 2023 6:27PM

@alaura22 said:
What am I missing here? Can someone please tell me why would you want to send in a PCGS coin with a CAC sticker to CACG?
And to boot, not be able to add that coin in the PCGS registries. And if anybody says to get the + upgrade you can do that by resubmitting it to PCGS for reconsideration.
I'm not getting it, please someone explain it to me because I'm confused

How about crossing coins to CACG that are graded by NGC, especially for the large group of collectors that the reason for Registries are mainly for inventory record purposes and not needed for competitive purposes?

Steve

coinbuf · October 18, 2023 6:28PM

@alaura22 said:
What am I missing here? Can someone please tell me why would you want to send in a PCGS coin with a CAC sticker to CACG?
And to boot, not be able to add that coin in the PCGS registries. And if anybody says to get the + upgrade you can do that by resubmitting it to PCGS for reconsideration.
I'm not getting it, please someone explain it to me because I'm confused

Several reasons that I can think of right of:
1. Perhaps the owner has tried, even more than once, to obtain an upgrade at PCGS.
2. Reconsideration at PCGS involves many fees including the ridiculous Guarantee Premium that gets tacked on.
3. There currently are no "extra" Guarantee fees for crossovers at CACG.
4. While this may be a shock to you, not everyone cares about or uses the PCGS registry.

There are other reasons I'm sure, but those are the low hanging fruit.

jmlanzaf · October 18, 2023 6:30PM

@alaura22 said:
What am I missing here? Can someone please tell me why would you want to send in a PCGS coin with a CAC sticker to CACG?
And to boot, not be able to add that coin in the PCGS registries. And if anybody says to get the + upgrade you can do that by resubmitting it to PCGS for reconsideration.
I'm not getting it, please someone explain it to me because I'm confused

You don't play the registry game and you believe the CACG premium will be higher than the PCGS/CAC price.

alaura22 · October 18, 2023 6:32PM

I am shocked, tell me it isn't so...........
No, I get it about #1,#2,And #3

RLSnapper · October 18, 2023 6:33PM

As I predicted...JA is seeking to get all the NGC legacy coins crossed over to CACG. This is an easy churn and quick turnaround time money maker for him. Also it puts more CACG coins into the marketplace. No one in their right mind would cross a PCGS legacy coin.....there is a premium market for these coins. IMO JA should have stuck with the sticker business. His hubris in thinking only he can grade coins correctly will ultimately be his downfall.

coinbuf · October 18, 2023 6:34PM

Just to go back to the registry thing, CACG has said they intend to have a registry of their own, so that is just another reason for some collectors to use this special.

Full disclosure, I have not and do not plan to cross any of my coins to CACG. I'm not driven by plastic brands, but I understand that some are.

alaura22 · October 18, 2023 6:38PM

I'm happy with the PCGS registry, no need to double dip

Project Numismatics · October 18, 2023 6:40PM

It’s a bad look to offer a special that will incentivize extra demand when you have a long prospective member waitlist that’s been on hold due to production limitations.

alaura22 · October 18, 2023 6:45PM

I got tired of waiting and having to jump through hoops to be a member
I'll just continue to buy my coins in a PCGS holder with a CAC sticker because I still trust their opinion on grading

winesteven · October 18, 2023 6:52PM

@coinbuf said:
Just to go back to the registry thing, CACG has said they intend to have a registry of their own, so that is just another reason for some collectors to use this special.

Full disclosure, I have not and do not plan to cross any of my coins to CACG. I'm not driven by plastic brands, but I understand that some are.

But the two upcoming CACG Registries will EACH allow, without penalty, coins graded by PCGS and NGC, so that is NOT a reason to cross to CACG.

Steve

DisneyFan · October 18, 2023 7:01PM

@alaura22 said:
What am I missing here? Can someone please tell me why would you want to send in a PCGS coin with a CAC sticker to CACG?
And if anybody says to get the + upgrade you can do that by resubmitting it to PCGS for reconsideration.
I'm not getting it, please someone explain it to me because I'm confused

CAC does not acknowledge the plus on a PCGS or NGC coin. Thus, one would send those coins that have a plus to CACG to validate the plus.

alaura22 · October 18, 2023 7:04PM

@DisneyFan said:

@alaura22 said:
What am I missing here? Can someone please tell me why would you want to send in a PCGS coin with a CAC sticker to CACG?
And if anybody says to get the + upgrade you can do that by resubmitting it to PCGS for reconsideration.
I'm not getting it, please someone explain it to me because I'm confused

CAC does not acknowledge the plus on a PCGS or NGC coin. Thus, one would send those coins that have a plus to CACG to validate the plus.

They already validate it by putting a stcker back on a coin that recieved a + if the cert # didn't change

DisneyFan · October 18, 2023 7:04PM

@winesteven said:

Keep in mind coins would have to be received by CACG by December 23rd (but not sooner than October 23rd).

Pity the poor soul whose package is already in the mail and arrives on Friday, October 20th!

DisneyFan · October 18, 2023 7:23PM

@alaura22 said:

@DisneyFan said:

@alaura22 said:
What am I missing here? Can someone please tell me why would you want to send in a PCGS coin with a CAC sticker to CACG?
And if anybody says to get the + upgrade you can do that by resubmitting it to PCGS for reconsideration.
I'm not getting it, please someone explain it to me because I'm confused

CAC does not acknowledge the plus on a PCGS or NGC coin. Thus, one would send those coins that have a plus to CACG to validate the plus.

They already validate it by putting a stcker back on a coin that recieved a + if the cert # didn't change

A CAC sticker does not confirm that a plus coin is a plus. It only confirms the numerical grade.

It is a tough decision whether to send a plus coin to CACG for confirmation and lose the PCGS or NGC listing in the Set Registry.

winesteven · October 18, 2023 7:33PM

@alaura22 said:

@DisneyFan said:

@alaura22 said:
What am I missing here? Can someone please tell me why would you want to send in a PCGS coin with a CAC sticker to CACG?
And if anybody says to get the + upgrade you can do that by resubmitting it to PCGS for reconsideration.
I'm not getting it, please someone explain it to me because I'm confused

CAC does not acknowledge the plus on a PCGS or NGC coin. Thus, one would send those coins that have a plus to CACG to validate the plus.

They already validate it by putting a sticker back on a coin that received a + if the cert # didn't change.

You are incorrect regarding CAC agreeing with a plus upgrade by NGC or PCGS. The reason CAC AUTOMATICALLY reapplies their sticker to a coin that receives a Plus upgrade is because CAC ONLY recognizes the whole grade, and ignores the plus upgrade. The reapplication of the sticker is automatic, and is not re-evaluated by CAC to see if they agree the coin is solid for that plus grade. That’s why their fee for this is only $5.

This also means that when you and I buy PCGS plus graded coins with a CAC sticker, that sticker is still only saying they believe the coin is solid for that whole grade number, and not necessarily solid for that plus grade!

Steve

alaura22 · October 18, 2023 7:53PM

@winesteven said:

@alaura22 said:

@DisneyFan said:

@alaura22 said:
What am I missing here? Can someone please tell me why would you want to send in a PCGS coin with a CAC sticker to CACG?
And if anybody says to get the + upgrade you can do that by resubmitting it to PCGS for reconsideration.
I'm not getting it, please someone explain it to me because I'm confused

CAC does not acknowledge the plus on a PCGS or NGC coin. Thus, one would send those coins that have a plus to CACG to validate the plus.

They already validate it by putting a sticker back on a coin that received a + if the cert # didn't change.

You are incorrect regarding CAC agreeing with a plus upgrade by NGC or PCGS. The reason CAC AUTOMATICALLY reapplies their sticker to a coin that receives a Plus upgrade is because CAC ONLY recognizes the whole grade, and ignores the plus upgrade. The reapplication of the sticker is automatic, and is not re-evaluated by CAC to see if they agree the coin is solid for that plus grade. That’s why their fee for this is only $5.

This also means that when you and I buy PCGS plus graded coins with a CAC sticker, that sticker is still only saying they believe the coin is solid for that whole grade number, and not necessarily solid for that plus grade!

Steve

It doesn't really matter. If you are buying or selling a PCGS coin with a plus and a CAC you are asking or paying + money for the coin no matter if CAC agrees to it being a + coin or not.
JMO

winesteven · October 18, 2023 8:08PM

I agree with you! However, the point made above by another poster, is a reason to cross a plus graded coin to CACG, is if indeed CACG agrees that coin is indeed solid as a plus, then that’s what the plus CACG graded coin represents. For some collectors, that’s meaningful!

Steve

alaura22 · October 18, 2023 8:23PM

So,
A plus PCGS or NGC coin with a CAC is NOT really a plus coin until you send it in to CACG and have them regrade it as such, in their holder?

winesteven · October 18, 2023 8:56PM

@alaura22 said:
So,
A plus PCGS or NGC coin with a CAC is NOT really a plus coin until you send it in to CACG and have them regrade it as such, in their holder?

No, that’s not what I’m saying. A plus PCGS or NGC coin IS INDEED a plus coin in the opinion of those two TPG’s, and may, or may not be, a plus coin in the opinion of CAC. For those that want that answer (and far from everybody cares), they need to look to CACG if they want their opinion.

For me, I’m perfectly fine with my PCGS/CAC plus graded coins!

Steve

alaura22 · October 18, 2023 9:23PM

Ok, so PCGS & NGC graded coins with a plus are in fact plus coins, but only in PCGS & NGCs eyes. Until and only if, CACG re-grades the coin as a plus coin it would be a plus coin. In CACs eyes it's only a solid grade, no plus, right?
And yes, I'm fine with all my plus graded PCGS coins also.

winesteven · October 18, 2023 9:36PM

You’re getting closer. As I indicated, a PCGS or NGC plus graded coin with a CAC sticker may or may not be a plus coin in the opinion of CAC. We don’t know! If CACG grades a coin with a plus, then that coin in the opinion of CAC/CACG is solid as a plus.

Separately, collectors form their own opinions. Many collectors choose to not pay premiums for plus graded graded coins. I believe that as a generalization, most collectors agree with PCGS and/or NGC with their assignments of plus grades, and this is backed up by the premiums often realized in auctions of plus graded coins, especially at the higher grade levels of 65 and higher.

As noted in my earlier reply, like you, I’m comfortable with my PCGS/CAC plus graded coins.

Steve

alaura22 · October 18, 2023 9:39PM

@winesteven said:
You’re getting closer. As I indicated, a PCGS or NGC plus graded coin with a CAC sticker may or may not be a plus coin in the opinion of CAC. We don’t know! If CACG grades a coin with a plus, then that coin in the opinion of CAC/CACG is solid as a plus.

That's what I said. PCGS & NGC plus coins are plus coin only to them, NOT CACG

winesteven · October 18, 2023 9:48PM

Still no. CACG might agree a PCGS or NGC plus coin is solid as a plus, but they can’t say it is a plus coin in CACG’s opinion unless they see/grade the coin. I believe CACG will agree on some, and disagree on others!

It’s late. Let’s stop, my friend.

Steve

291fifth · October 18, 2023 11:12PM

Threads like this are about as interesting as those featuring the latest parking lot "errors".

1madman · October 19, 2023 12:34AM

@jmlanzaf said:

@alaura22 said:
What am I missing here? Can someone please tell me why would you want to send in a PCGS coin with a CAC sticker to CACG?
And to boot, not be able to add that coin in the PCGS registries. And if anybody says to get the + upgrade you can do that by resubmitting it to PCGS for reconsideration.
I'm not getting it, please someone explain it to me because I'm confused

You don't play the registry game and you believe the CACG premium will be higher than the PCGS/CAC price.

Nope, that’s definitely not it.

Why do I get the feeling cacg is already struggling as a company to get off the ground, hence the need for a grading promotion almost immediately?

My spidey sense is telling me something.

jmlanzaf · October 19, 2023 1:47AM

@Project Numismatics said:
It’s a bad look to offer a special that will incentivize extra demand when you have a long prospective member waitlist that’s been on hold due to production limitations.

Is it a "bad look" to charge a membership fee in order to be able to submit? All PCGS specials are useless to non-members.

jmlanzaf · October 19, 2023 1:49AM

@1madman said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@alaura22 said:
What am I missing here? Can someone please tell me why would you want to send in a PCGS coin with a CAC sticker to CACG?
And to boot, not be able to add that coin in the PCGS registries. And if anybody says to get the + upgrade you can do that by resubmitting it to PCGS for reconsideration.
I'm not getting it, please someone explain it to me because I'm confused

You don't play the registry game and you believe the CACG premium will be higher than the PCGS/CAC price.

Nope, that’s definitely not it.

Why do I get the feeling cacg is already struggling as a company to get off the ground, hence the need for a grading promotion almost immediately?

My spidey sense is telling me something.

That's not it? Do you even know what question I was answering?

If not my answer, could you tell me why someone would cross a PCGS/CAC to CACG?

Morgan13 · October 19, 2023 2:08AM

@1madman said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@alaura22 said:
What am I missing here? Can someone please tell me why would you want to send in a PCGS coin with a CAC sticker to CACG?
And to boot, not be able to add that coin in the PCGS registries. And if anybody says to get the + upgrade you can do that by resubmitting it to PCGS for reconsideration.
I'm not getting it, please someone explain it to me because I'm confused

You don't play the registry game and you believe the CACG premium will be higher than the PCGS/CAC price.

Nope, that’s definitely not it.

Why do I get the feeling cacg is already struggling as a company to get off the ground, hence the need for a grading promotion almost immediately?

My spidey sense is telling me something.

I think all the original hype we see in the forum may lead some of us to believe this will be a big event. I felt that way. Now I could care less. I am a big fan of PCGS.
I have already seen situations where CACG are way to conservative.
Why do I want to pay to have someone give me super strict grades when PCGS is already accurate?
On the other hand I feel as though having another TPG might speed things up with PCGS and we can get our submissions back sooner.
That's the main reason I am happy to see them in the game.
I like the PCGS gold shield holder myself and if I can get all my coins into one I will.
Whatever the outcome I wish them luck on this endeavor.

Project Numismatics · October 19, 2023 4:31AM

@jmlanzaf said:

@Project Numismatics said:
It’s a bad look to offer a special that will incentivize extra demand when you have a long prospective member waitlist that’s been on hold due to production limitations.

Is it a "bad look" to charge a membership fee in order to be able to submit? All PCGS specials are useless to non-members.

No, there’s a big distinction from PCGS charging a membership fee that’s open to any and all who are willing to pay.

My issue is with the exclusivity that CAC has cultivated around who gets to be in the club. Of course that is their prerogative and I understand the urge to reward “early” backers. But I don’t like it.

To be clear, I’m a huge CAC fan and own many CAC coins. I admire what JA has done for the hobby but I still have criticisms of CAC/CACG and believe they should rethink some of their practices.

jmlanzaf · October 19, 2023 4:48AM

@Project Numismatics said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Project Numismatics said:
It’s a bad look to offer a special that will incentivize extra demand when you have a long prospective member waitlist that’s been on hold due to production limitations.

Is it a "bad look" to charge a membership fee in order to be able to submit? All PCGS specials are useless to non-members.

No, there’s a big distinction from PCGS charging a membership fee that’s open to any and all who are willing to pay.

My issue is with the exclusivity that CAC has cultivated around who gets to be in the club. Of course that is their prerogative and I understand the urge to reward “early” backers. But I don’t like it.

To be clear, I’m a huge CAC fan and own many CAC coins. I admire what JA has done for the hobby but I still have criticisms of CAC/CACG and believe they should rethink some of their practices.

It's not "early backers". It's any CAC member. I got the offer just because I've been a member from the sticker days.

They've always gradually added new, free members in a controlled fashion. I don't think it has anything to do with "exclusivity". It has been a way to control the flow of submissions so that the membership doesn't grow faster than the infrastructure.

Project Numismatics · October 19, 2023 4:55AM

@jmlanzaf said:

@Project Numismatics said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Project Numismatics said:
It’s a bad look to offer a special that will incentivize extra demand when you have a long prospective member waitlist that’s been on hold due to production limitations.

Is it a "bad look" to charge a membership fee in order to be able to submit? All PCGS specials are useless to non-members.

No, there’s a big distinction from PCGS charging a membership fee that’s open to any and all who are willing to pay.

My issue is with the exclusivity that CAC has cultivated around who gets to be in the club. Of course that is their prerogative and I understand the urge to reward “early” backers. But I don’t like it.

To be clear, I’m a huge CAC fan and own many CAC coins. I admire what JA has done for the hobby but I still have criticisms of CAC/CACG and believe they should rethink some of their practices.

It's not "early backers". It's any CAC member. I got the offer just because I've been a member from the sticker days.

They've always gradually added new, free members in a controlled fashion. I don't think it has anything to do with "exclusivity". It has been a way to control the flow of submissions so that the membership doesn't grow faster than the infrastructure.

You just proved my point! It was precisely early backers - investors were first and generally consisted of industry insiders and early backers of the sticker. Then, and only very recently, sticker members.

Can you provide any evidence to support your spurious claim that CAC or CACG has added any “new free members” in at least a year?

If this is to control the flow of submission, why are they doing a special?

winesteven · October 19, 2023 4:59AM

@Project Numismatics said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Project Numismatics said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Project Numismatics said:
It’s a bad look to offer a special that will incentivize extra demand when you have a long prospective member waitlist that’s been on hold due to production limitations.

Is it a "bad look" to charge a membership fee in order to be able to submit? All PCGS specials are useless to non-members.

No, there’s a big distinction from PCGS charging a membership fee that’s open to any and all who are willing to pay.

My issue is with the exclusivity that CAC has cultivated around who gets to be in the club. Of course that is their prerogative and I understand the urge to reward “early” backers. But I don’t like it.

To be clear, I’m a huge CAC fan and own many CAC coins. I admire what JA has done for the hobby but I still have criticisms of CAC/CACG and believe they should rethink some of their practices.

It's not "early backers". It's any CAC member. I got the offer just because I've been a member from the sticker days.

They've always gradually added new, free members in a controlled fashion. I don't think it has anything to do with "exclusivity". It has been a way to control the flow of submissions so that the membership doesn't grow faster than the infrastructure.

You just proved my point! It was precisely early backers - investors were first and generally consisted of industry insiders and early backers of the sticker. Then, and only very recently, sticker members.

Can you provide any evidence to support your spurious claim that CAC or CACG has added any “new free members” in at least a year?

If this is to control the flow of submission, why are they doing a special?

While I don't have "proof" until some of those speak up here, CAC/CACG has announced on their forum that roughly 180 or more people on their Wait List will be added to membership by the end of this year!

Steve

winesteven · October 19, 2023 5:07AM

Regarding the point of "Why Cross?", following is a comment from one collector on another forum. While probably not representative of a majority of collectors, I'm sure that he's not the only one who shares his thoughts:

"I personally view CACG+ as the next grade up for other TPG's as far as grade is concerned. I am not ready to back that up with my wallet but feel you can not go wrong owning as many as possible. The plusses from NGC and PCGS do not carry as much weight for me."

Steve

Project Numismatics · October 19, 2023 5:07AM

@winesteven said:

@Project Numismatics said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Project Numismatics said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Project Numismatics said:
It’s a bad look to offer a special that will incentivize extra demand when you have a long prospective member waitlist that’s been on hold due to production limitations.

Is it a "bad look" to charge a membership fee in order to be able to submit? All PCGS specials are useless to non-members.

No, there’s a big distinction from PCGS charging a membership fee that’s open to any and all who are willing to pay.

My issue is with the exclusivity that CAC has cultivated around who gets to be in the club. Of course that is their prerogative and I understand the urge to reward “early” backers. But I don’t like it.

To be clear, I’m a huge CAC fan and own many CAC coins. I admire what JA has done for the hobby but I still have criticisms of CAC/CACG and believe they should rethink some of their practices.

It's not "early backers". It's any CAC member. I got the offer just because I've been a member from the sticker days.

They've always gradually added new, free members in a controlled fashion. I don't think it has anything to do with "exclusivity". It has been a way to control the flow of submissions so that the membership doesn't grow faster than the infrastructure.

You just proved my point! It was precisely early backers - investors were first and generally consisted of industry insiders and early backers of the sticker. Then, and only very recently, sticker members.

Can you provide any evidence to support your spurious claim that CAC or CACG has added any “new free members” in at least a year?

If this is to control the flow of submission, why are they doing a special?

While I don't have "proof" until some of those speak up here, CAC/CACG has announced on their forum that roughly 180 or more people on their Wait List will be added to membership by the end of this year!

Steve

Well to be fair Steve, you didn’t make the claim, so I would not expect you to provide any proof.

I saw the CAC announcement and look forward to the waitlist being processed.

But I don’t think that is evidence that they have “gradually added new, free members” since CACG was announced or in the past year+.

I would like to able to submit and have been on the wait list a very long time.

lermish · October 19, 2023 5:15AM

@winesteven said:

@Project Numismatics said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Project Numismatics said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Project Numismatics said:
It’s a bad look to offer a special that will incentivize extra demand when you have a long prospective member waitlist that’s been on hold due to production limitations.

Is it a "bad look" to charge a membership fee in order to be able to submit? All PCGS specials are useless to non-members.

No, there’s a big distinction from PCGS charging a membership fee that’s open to any and all who are willing to pay.

My issue is with the exclusivity that CAC has cultivated around who gets to be in the club. Of course that is their prerogative and I understand the urge to reward “early” backers. But I don’t like it.

To be clear, I’m a huge CAC fan and own many CAC coins. I admire what JA has done for the hobby but I still have criticisms of CAC/CACG and believe they should rethink some of their practices.

It's not "early backers". It's any CAC member. I got the offer just because I've been a member from the sticker days.

They've always gradually added new, free members in a controlled fashion. I don't think it has anything to do with "exclusivity". It has been a way to control the flow of submissions so that the membership doesn't grow faster than the infrastructure.

You just proved my point! It was precisely early backers - investors were first and generally consisted of industry insiders and early backers of the sticker. Then, and only very recently, sticker members.

Can you provide any evidence to support your spurious claim that CAC or CACG has added any “new free members” in at least a year?

If this is to control the flow of submission, why are they doing a special?

While I don't have "proof" until some of those speak up here, CAC/CACG has announced on their forum that roughly 180 or more people on their Wait List will be added to membership by the end of this year!

Steve

I truly hope that is accurate and that is definitely their intent. This is a quote from an email I sent them:

We are hoping to begin letting new members in by the end of the year.

winesteven · October 19, 2023 5:18AM

Based on their comment(s) on their forum, it is definitely their intent. As to what actually happens,......?????

Steve

1madman · October 19, 2023 5:37AM

@jmlanzaf said:

@1madman said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@alaura22 said:
What am I missing here? Can someone please tell me why would you want to send in a PCGS coin with a CAC sticker to CACG?
And to boot, not be able to add that coin in the PCGS registries. And if anybody says to get the + upgrade you can do that by resubmitting it to PCGS for reconsideration.
I'm not getting it, please someone explain it to me because I'm confused

You don't play the registry game and you believe the CACG premium will be higher than the PCGS/CAC price.

Nope, that’s definitely not it.

Why do I get the feeling cacg is already struggling as a company to get off the ground, hence the need for a grading promotion almost immediately?

My spidey sense is telling me something.

That's not it? Do you even know what question I was answering?

If not my answer, could you tell me why someone would cross a PCGS/CAC to CACG?

What I was getting at is the exact same coin in a pcgs/cac sticker is more valuable/desirable than a cacg holder (in my opinion). That’s the reason not to cross.

ELVIS1 · October 19, 2023 6:40AM

Well now it seems to come down to badges doesn't it?? I think PCGS should just start putting badges on other folks slabs and then the coin with the most badges wins. Old ANACS slabs with a PCGS badge NEW CACG slab with a PCGS badge would be pretty cool and could even add a few dollars to the PCGS till..
Now PCGS I just want to make it clear that I don't want any monies from this Idea but a couple more free vouchers wouldn't be refused...

jmlanzaf · October 19, 2023 7:21AM

@Project Numismatics said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Project Numismatics said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Project Numismatics said:
It’s a bad look to offer a special that will incentivize extra demand when you have a long prospective member waitlist that’s been on hold due to production limitations.

Is it a "bad look" to charge a membership fee in order to be able to submit? All PCGS specials are useless to non-members.

No, there’s a big distinction from PCGS charging a membership fee that’s open to any and all who are willing to pay.

My issue is with the exclusivity that CAC has cultivated around who gets to be in the club. Of course that is their prerogative and I understand the urge to reward “early” backers. But I don’t like it.

To be clear, I’m a huge CAC fan and own many CAC coins. I admire what JA has done for the hobby but I still have criticisms of CAC/CACG and believe they should rethink some of their practices.

It's not "early backers". It's any CAC member. I got the offer just because I've been a member from the sticker days.

They've always gradually added new, free members in a controlled fashion. I don't think it has anything to do with "exclusivity". It has been a way to control the flow of submissions so that the membership doesn't grow faster than the infrastructure.

You just proved my point! It was precisely early backers - investors were first and generally consisted of industry insiders and early backers of the sticker. Then, and only very recently, sticker members.

Can you provide any evidence to support your spurious claim that CAC or CACG has added any “new free members” in at least a year?

If this is to control the flow of submission, why are they doing a special?

This is the first offering of a special and it went to everyone not early backers. That hardly proves your point. You appear to have a different point.

To my knowledge, they have not let anyone in during the opening of CACG which, of course, makes sense. You can't offer services when the infrastructure isn't built.

Membership limitations have always been to control the flow of submissions. They are now ramping up, hence the special and the enrollment of new members.

There's really nothing nefarious going on here.

jmlanzaf · October 19, 2023 7:23AM

@1madman said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@1madman said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@alaura22 said:
What am I missing here? Can someone please tell me why would you want to send in a PCGS coin with a CAC sticker to CACG?
And to boot, not be able to add that coin in the PCGS registries. And if anybody says to get the + upgrade you can do that by resubmitting it to PCGS for reconsideration.
I'm not getting it, please someone explain it to me because I'm confused

You don't play the registry game and you believe the CACG premium will be higher than the PCGS/CAC price.

Nope, that’s definitely not it.

Why do I get the feeling cacg is already struggling as a company to get off the ground, hence the need for a grading promotion almost immediately?

My spidey sense is telling me something.

That's not it? Do you even know what question I was answering?

If not my answer, could you tell me why someone would cross a PCGS/CAC to CACG?

What I was getting at is the exact same coin in a pcgs/cac sticker is more valuable/desirable than a cacg holder (in my opinion). That’s the reason not to cross.

Currently. As I indicated, if you "believe" CACG will be the preferred holder, you will send it in to cross. No reasonable individual could possibly disagree with that statement.

jmlanzaf · October 19, 2023 7:25AM

@Project Numismatics said:

@winesteven said:

@Project Numismatics said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Project Numismatics said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@Project Numismatics said:
It’s a bad look to offer a special that will incentivize extra demand when you have a long prospective member waitlist that’s been on hold due to production limitations.

Is it a "bad look" to charge a membership fee in order to be able to submit? All PCGS specials are useless to non-members.

No, there’s a big distinction from PCGS charging a membership fee that’s open to any and all who are willing to pay.

My issue is with the exclusivity that CAC has cultivated around who gets to be in the club. Of course that is their prerogative and I understand the urge to reward “early” backers. But I don’t like it.

To be clear, I’m a huge CAC fan and own many CAC coins. I admire what JA has done for the hobby but I still have criticisms of CAC/CACG and believe they should rethink some of their practices.

It's not "early backers". It's any CAC member. I got the offer just because I've been a member from the sticker days.

They've always gradually added new, free members in a controlled fashion. I don't think it has anything to do with "exclusivity". It has been a way to control the flow of submissions so that the membership doesn't grow faster than the infrastructure.

You just proved my point! It was precisely early backers - investors were first and generally consisted of industry insiders and early backers of the sticker. Then, and only very recently, sticker members.

Can you provide any evidence to support your spurious claim that CAC or CACG has added any “new free members” in at least a year?

If this is to control the flow of submission, why are they doing a special?

While I don't have "proof" until some of those speak up here, CAC/CACG has announced on their forum that roughly 180 or more people on their Wait List will be added to membership by the end of this year!

Steve

Well to be fair Steve, you didn’t make the claim, so I would not expect you to provide any proof.

I saw the CAC announcement and look forward to the waitlist being processed.

But I don’t think that is evidence that they have “gradually added new, free members” since CACG was announced or in the past year+.

I would like to able to submit and have been on the wait list a very long time.

No one said they have added any. I also wouldn't have expected them to during the transition.

Pizzaman · October 19, 2023 8:09AM

I said it before PCGS should get in the sticker business. This now is war with CAC getting in the crackout business. CAC knows by now most of the best coins are already in their competitors' holders, that's why, this isn't difficult. I know I'm not cracking for them, however affordable.

FrankH · October 19, 2023 8:27AM

This whole matter is steamrollering to where the history and knowledge of versions of PLASTIC will supercede the history and knowledge of the coins... IN ...that plastic.

Something evil this way comes.

logger7 · October 19, 2023 8:51AM

I remember when PCGS had a quarterly special of a certain number of free or really cheap crossovers; also NGC years ago offered a cheap service to crossover Anacs coins. Those days are long gone as the expense of running these businesses continue to soar.

Cougar1978 · October 19, 2023 9:08AM

I am just fine with PCGS as my TPG of choice. The PCGS inventory manager / registry works for me. So no use for CAC, etc. Considering moon money many asking for stuff from over there - pass.

johnny010 · October 19, 2023 9:20AM

With all the back and forth in multiple threads, one thing is clear; the business nuances have confused a lot of people. When a businesses approach is confusing to people, it's usually an uphill battle for the company.

CACG now offering current members a crossover special!

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