@perkdog said:
Cleveland and Houston both come to mind as tough ones.
Otto Graham or Jim.Brown
Earl Campbell or Warren Moon
Pittsburgh? That might be the toughest one though
Bradshaw?
Franco Harris?
Swann?
Name a Defensive player?
Bradshaw was very average and got carried to SB wins
When you’re voted 1st team 1970’s All Decade NFL team that not only means that you’re way above average, it means you were the best.
“Carried to Super Bowl wins”?
Other way around. He had a better QB rating then Staubach twice, Tarkenton and VF in all four Super Bowls. He was MVP 2 of 4 and should have been 3 or 4 for 4.
Staubach was the reason Dallas lost their first SB to Pittsburgh throwing three crucial picks to Bradshaw’s none.
In other words, Pittsburgh was 4for4 because of TB.
Staubach was better than Bradshaw in 78,
Bradshaw was the best QB in 78 and he proved it in the super bowl. Double MVP year that he earned.
Thats true if you ignore the fact that Staubach threw for more yards, ran for more yards, had more total yards, had a better TD to INT rate, and fumbled less
Terry and Roger were both great.
Look at the 1978 Super Bowl QB stats and rating for these guys. That’s how close they were.
Keep in mind that Landry used a lot more shotgun and Noll mostly threw on 3rd and 8. Roger threw in a much more pass oriented offense then Terry did. Terry’s and Griese’s numbers are what they are because of run oriented coaches, who did alter their philosophies towards the end of the decade. Like I said before, you can’t compare Griese throwing for 1,500 yards in 72 to Namath throwing 4,000 yards in 69. It’s all about the coaching philosophy.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
@perkdog said:
Cleveland and Houston both come to mind as tough ones.
Otto Graham or Jim.Brown
Earl Campbell or Warren Moon
Pittsburgh? That might be the toughest one though
Bradshaw?
Franco Harris?
Swann?
Name a Defensive player?
Bradshaw was very average and got carried to SB wins
When you’re voted 1st team 1970’s All Decade NFL team that not only means that you’re way above average, it means you were the best.
“Carried to Super Bowl wins”?
Other way around. He had a better QB rating then Staubach twice, Tarkenton and VF in all four Super Bowls. He was MVP 2 of 4 and should have been 3 or 4 for 4.
Staubach was the reason Dallas lost their first SB to Pittsburgh throwing three crucial picks to Bradshaw’s none.
In other words, Pittsburgh was 4for4 because of TB.
So at this point I’m going to have to conclude that never in your life have you heard the phrase
“Let’s agree to disagree”
Just sayin’ these Bradshaw wars are starting to get tiresome.
At this point nothing new is going to be said from either side so it really should be laid to rest.
Let’s say Tom Brady’s nickname was Captain America. He played for America’s team in an open stadium so God could watch them play on Sunday.
Let’s say your guy Mahomes was referred to as just a dumb southern hick, who played in a dirty steel town with blue collar workers instead of wealthy oil people watching.
All your dumb southern hick Mahomes did was beat Captain America Brady in two Super Bowls, get voted QB of the decade over Brady, win Super Bowl MVPs over Brady, and yet year after year later people said your dumb southern hick Mahomes either “sucked” or was an average QB.
Also many here who were 7 years old when Mahomes was schooling Brady didn’t understand the offensive philosophy restraints Mahomes had, that made his stats worse. He played for a coach that wasn’t pass first, run second.
Just imagine years from now people saying Mahomes wasn’t ever good. He sucked. He was average.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
Washington Redskins: I'd vote for Darrell Green ... long 20 year career with same team, played at high level the entire time, multiple pro bowls, nfl's fastest man for years.
Old timers would probably say Sammy Baugh, but most people alive never saw him play
Some honorable mentions: John Riggins, Art Monk, Charlie Taylor, Sonny Jurgensen.
If he lived longer and not been murdered, i bet Sean Taylor would have been in the running for at least an HM.
@perkdog said:
Cleveland and Houston both come to mind as tough ones.
Otto Graham or Jim.Brown
Earl Campbell or Warren Moon
Pittsburgh? That might be the toughest one though
Bradshaw?
Franco Harris?
Swann?
Name a Defensive player?
Bradshaw was very average and got carried to SB wins
When you’re voted 1st team 1970’s All Decade NFL team that not only means that you’re way above average, it means you were the best.
“Carried to Super Bowl wins”?
Other way around. He had a better QB rating then Staubach twice, Tarkenton and VF in all four Super Bowls. He was MVP 2 of 4 and should have been 3 or 4 for 4.
Staubach was the reason Dallas lost their first SB to Pittsburgh throwing three crucial picks to Bradshaw’s none.
In other words, Pittsburgh was 4for4 because of TB.
Staubach was better than Bradshaw in 78,
Bradshaw was the best QB in 78 and he proved it in the super bowl. Double MVP year that he earned.
Thats true if you ignore the fact that Staubach threw for more yards, ran for more yards, had more total yards, had a better TD to INT rate, and fumbled less
Terry and Roger were both great.
Look at the 1978 Super Bowl QB stats and rating for these guys. That’s how close they were.
Keep in mind that Landry used a lot more shotgun and Noll mostly threw on 3rd and 8. Roger threw in a much more pass oriented offense then Terry did. Terry’s and Griese’s numbers are what they are because of run oriented coaches, who did alter their philosophies towards the end of the decade. Like I said before, you can’t compare Griese throwing for 1,500 yards in 72 to Namath throwing 4,000 yards in 69. It’s all about the coaching philosophy.
Thats certainly true for throwing yards that a coach can keep those suppressed. It wouldnt account for the turnovers though and if anything a QB like that should have fewer turnovers and fumbles. If you were to put Rodger on the 78 Steelers he would have been the MVP. The voters penalized him for the Cowboys record and rewarded Terry for the Steelers record.
I still dont understand how any of them could possibly vote Terry for MVP and someone else for offensive player of the year, but they did.
@Applejacks said:
Oakland Raiders is a tough one but I’ll choose Ray Guy.
Sweetness was 1st team all decade in the 70’s and 80’s. I think he is it for the Bears.
Unitas for the Colts.
Don’t understand the knock on Bradshaw. What a player.
Page for the Vikings and the Rams is a tough one.
Ray Guy?
I’m going Art Shell, Gene Upshaw, Marcus Allen or Bo even though he didn’t last long over a punter.
They had several great receivers and d backs as well.
@perkdog said:
Cleveland and Houston both come to mind as tough ones.
Otto Graham or Jim.Brown
Earl Campbell or Warren Moon
Pittsburgh? That might be the toughest one though
Bradshaw?
Franco Harris?
Swann?
Name a Defensive player?
Bradshaw was very average and got carried to SB wins
When you’re voted 1st team 1970’s All Decade NFL team that not only means that you’re way above average, it means you were the best.
“Carried to Super Bowl wins”?
Other way around. He had a better QB rating then Staubach twice, Tarkenton and VF in all four Super Bowls. He was MVP 2 of 4 and should have been 3 or 4 for 4.
Staubach was the reason Dallas lost their first SB to Pittsburgh throwing three crucial picks to Bradshaw’s none.
In other words, Pittsburgh was 4for4 because of TB.
Staubach was better than Bradshaw in 78,
Bradshaw was the best QB in 78 and he proved it in the super bowl. Double MVP year that he earned.
Thats true if you ignore the fact that Staubach threw for more yards, ran for more yards, had more total yards, had a better TD to INT rate, and fumbled less
Terry and Roger were both great.
Look at the 1978 Super Bowl QB stats and rating for these guys. That’s how close they were.
Keep in mind that Landry used a lot more shotgun and Noll mostly threw on 3rd and 8. Roger threw in a much more pass oriented offense then Terry did. Terry’s and Griese’s numbers are what they are because of run oriented coaches, who did alter their philosophies towards the end of the decade. Like I said before, you can’t compare Griese throwing for 1,500 yards in 72 to Namath throwing 4,000 yards in 69. It’s all about the coaching philosophy.
Thats certainly true for throwing yards that a coach can keep those suppressed. It wouldnt account for the turnovers though and if anything a QB like that should have fewer turnovers and fumbles. If you were to put Rodger on the 78 Steelers he would have been the MVP. The voters penalized him for the Cowboys record and rewarded Terry for the Steelers record.
I still dont understand how any of them could possibly vote Terry for MVP and someone else for offensive player of the year, but they did.
I suppose the average high temperature in Dallas in November and December in 1978 being in the 60’s and Pittsburgh the 30’s and 40’s wouldn’t have anything to do with ball handling. Some days were in the 20’s in Pittsburgh that December.
Ever play football in 30 degree weather as opposed to 60 degrees?
The skin on your hands begin to shrivel up and you lose your grip.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
Staubachs four losses in 1978. He was very poor. The voters saw what he did against LA, Washington, Minnesota and Miami. He got badly outplayed in all those key games.
-
-
-
-
-
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
@WingedLiberty1957 said:
Washington Redskins: I'd vote for Darrell Green ... long 20 year career with same team, played at high level the entire time, multiple pro bowls, nfl's fastest man for years.
Old timers would probably say Sammy Baugh, but most people alive never saw him play
Some honorable mentions: John Riggins, Art Monk, Charlie Taylor, Sonny Jurgensen.
If he lived longer and not been murdered, i bet Sean Taylor would have been in the running for at least an HM.
I think Green would be a great choice for washington.
@Applejacks said:
Oakland Raiders is a tough one but I’ll choose Ray Guy.
Sweetness was 1st team all decade in the 70’s and 80’s. I think he is it for the Bears.
Unitas for the Colts.
Don’t understand the knock on Bradshaw. What a player.
Page for the Vikings and the Rams is a tough one.
Ray Guy?
I’m going Art Shell, Gene Upshaw, Marcus Allen or Bo even though he didn’t last long over a punter.
They had several great receivers and d backs as well.
Marcus would be a good choice. Bo didnt play that long, but he was lightening when he did
@perkdog said:
Cleveland and Houston both come to mind as tough ones.
Otto Graham or Jim.Brown
Earl Campbell or Warren Moon
Pittsburgh? That might be the toughest one though
Bradshaw?
Franco Harris?
Swann?
Name a Defensive player?
Bradshaw was very average and got carried to SB wins
When you’re voted 1st team 1970’s All Decade NFL team that not only means that you’re way above average, it means you were the best.
“Carried to Super Bowl wins”?
Other way around. He had a better QB rating then Staubach twice, Tarkenton and VF in all four Super Bowls. He was MVP 2 of 4 and should have been 3 or 4 for 4.
Staubach was the reason Dallas lost their first SB to Pittsburgh throwing three crucial picks to Bradshaw’s none.
In other words, Pittsburgh was 4for4 because of TB.
Staubach was better than Bradshaw in 78,
Bradshaw was the best QB in 78 and he proved it in the super bowl. Double MVP year that he earned.
Thats true if you ignore the fact that Staubach threw for more yards, ran for more yards, had more total yards, had a better TD to INT rate, and fumbled less
Terry and Roger were both great.
Look at the 1978 Super Bowl QB stats and rating for these guys. That’s how close they were.
Keep in mind that Landry used a lot more shotgun and Noll mostly threw on 3rd and 8. Roger threw in a much more pass oriented offense then Terry did. Terry’s and Griese’s numbers are what they are because of run oriented coaches, who did alter their philosophies towards the end of the decade. Like I said before, you can’t compare Griese throwing for 1,500 yards in 72 to Namath throwing 4,000 yards in 69. It’s all about the coaching philosophy.
Thats certainly true for throwing yards that a coach can keep those suppressed. It wouldnt account for the turnovers though and if anything a QB like that should have fewer turnovers and fumbles. If you were to put Rodger on the 78 Steelers he would have been the MVP. The voters penalized him for the Cowboys record and rewarded Terry for the Steelers record.
I still dont understand how any of them could possibly vote Terry for MVP and someone else for offensive player of the year, but they did.
I suppose the average high temperature in Dallas in November and December in 1978 being in the 60’s and Pittsburgh the 30’s and 40’s wouldn’t have anything to do with ball handling. Some days were in the 20’s in Pittsburgh that December.
Ever play football in 30 degree weather as opposed to 60 degrees?
The skin on your hands begin to shrivel up and you lose your grip.
Yes I have played in extremely cold weather. Everyone should have been fumbling if the weather was the reason. Even back then there were numerous ways to keep hands warm and create grip. Its not like the ball was a hot potato that no one could hold onto. He fumbled a lot in his career for a guy that didnt really run
The difference in the MVP voting was the team record
@perkdog said:
Cleveland and Houston both come to mind as tough ones.
Otto Graham or Jim.Brown
Earl Campbell or Warren Moon
Pittsburgh? That might be the toughest one though
Bradshaw?
Franco Harris?
Swann?
Name a Defensive player?
Bradshaw was very average and got carried to SB wins
When you’re voted 1st team 1970’s All Decade NFL team that not only means that you’re way above average, it means you were the best.
“Carried to Super Bowl wins”?
Other way around. He had a better QB rating then Staubach twice, Tarkenton and VF in all four Super Bowls. He was MVP 2 of 4 and should have been 3 or 4 for 4.
Staubach was the reason Dallas lost their first SB to Pittsburgh throwing three crucial picks to Bradshaw’s none.
In other words, Pittsburgh was 4for4 because of TB.
Staubach was better than Bradshaw in 78,
Bradshaw was the best QB in 78 and he proved it in the super bowl. Double MVP year that he earned.
Thats true if you ignore the fact that Staubach threw for more yards, ran for more yards, had more total yards, had a better TD to INT rate, and fumbled less
Terry and Roger were both great.
Look at the 1978 Super Bowl QB stats and rating for these guys. That’s how close they were.
Keep in mind that Landry used a lot more shotgun and Noll mostly threw on 3rd and 8. Roger threw in a much more pass oriented offense then Terry did. Terry’s and Griese’s numbers are what they are because of run oriented coaches, who did alter their philosophies towards the end of the decade. Like I said before, you can’t compare Griese throwing for 1,500 yards in 72 to Namath throwing 4,000 yards in 69. It’s all about the coaching philosophy.
Thats certainly true for throwing yards that a coach can keep those suppressed. It wouldnt account for the turnovers though and if anything a QB like that should have fewer turnovers and fumbles. If you were to put Rodger on the 78 Steelers he would have been the MVP. The voters penalized him for the Cowboys record and rewarded Terry for the Steelers record.
I still dont understand how any of them could possibly vote Terry for MVP and someone else for offensive player of the year, but they did.
I suppose the average high temperature in Dallas in November and December in 1978 being in the 60’s and Pittsburgh the 30’s and 40’s wouldn’t have anything to do with ball handling. Some days were in the 20’s in Pittsburgh that December.
Ever play football in 30 degree weather as opposed to 60 degrees?
The skin on your hands begin to shrivel up and you lose your grip.
Yes I have played in extremely cold weather. Everyone should have been fumbling if the weather was the reason. Even back then there were numerous ways to keep hands warm and create grip. Its not like the ball was a hot potato that no one could hold onto. He fumbled a lot in his career for a guy that didnt really run
The difference in the MVP voting was the team record
Bradshaw ran a lot. Go check his stats please.
The difference in the voting was Staubach was terrible in key games that year contributing to Dallas losses. Staubach was THE reason the Cowboys lost so much that year, just like when he threw 3 picks against Pittsburgh in his first SB against them.
Keeping hands warm back then ????
Lol. Look at Bradshaw compared to Brady. Do you see Brady’s throwing hand in his heat pocket before the snap and a glove on his left hand ?
What do you see for Bradshaw?
You see absolutely nothing.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
@perkdog said:
Cleveland and Houston both come to mind as tough ones.
Otto Graham or Jim.Brown
Earl Campbell or Warren Moon
Pittsburgh? That might be the toughest one though
Bradshaw?
Franco Harris?
Swann?
Name a Defensive player?
Bradshaw was very average and got carried to SB wins
When you’re voted 1st team 1970’s All Decade NFL team that not only means that you’re way above average, it means you were the best.
“Carried to Super Bowl wins”?
Other way around. He had a better QB rating then Staubach twice, Tarkenton and VF in all four Super Bowls. He was MVP 2 of 4 and should have been 3 or 4 for 4.
Staubach was the reason Dallas lost their first SB to Pittsburgh throwing three crucial picks to Bradshaw’s none.
In other words, Pittsburgh was 4for4 because of TB.
Staubach was better than Bradshaw in 78,
Bradshaw was the best QB in 78 and he proved it in the super bowl. Double MVP year that he earned.
Thats true if you ignore the fact that Staubach threw for more yards, ran for more yards, had more total yards, had a better TD to INT rate, and fumbled less
Terry and Roger were both great.
Look at the 1978 Super Bowl QB stats and rating for these guys. That’s how close they were.
Keep in mind that Landry used a lot more shotgun and Noll mostly threw on 3rd and 8. Roger threw in a much more pass oriented offense then Terry did. Terry’s and Griese’s numbers are what they are because of run oriented coaches, who did alter their philosophies towards the end of the decade. Like I said before, you can’t compare Griese throwing for 1,500 yards in 72 to Namath throwing 4,000 yards in 69. It’s all about the coaching philosophy.
Thats certainly true for throwing yards that a coach can keep those suppressed. It wouldnt account for the turnovers though and if anything a QB like that should have fewer turnovers and fumbles. If you were to put Rodger on the 78 Steelers he would have been the MVP. The voters penalized him for the Cowboys record and rewarded Terry for the Steelers record.
I still dont understand how any of them could possibly vote Terry for MVP and someone else for offensive player of the year, but they did.
I suppose the average high temperature in Dallas in November and December in 1978 being in the 60’s and Pittsburgh the 30’s and 40’s wouldn’t have anything to do with ball handling. Some days were in the 20’s in Pittsburgh that December.
Ever play football in 30 degree weather as opposed to 60 degrees?
The skin on your hands begin to shrivel up and you lose your grip.
Yes I have played in extremely cold weather. Everyone should have been fumbling if the weather was the reason. Even back then there were numerous ways to keep hands warm and create grip. Its not like the ball was a hot potato that no one could hold onto. He fumbled a lot in his career for a guy that didnt really run
The difference in the MVP voting was the team record
Bradshaw ran a lot. Go check his stats please.
The difference in the voting was Staubach was terrible in key games that year contributing to Dallas losses. Staubach was THE reason the Cowboys lost so much that year, just like when he threw 3 picks against Pittsburgh in his first SB against them.
Keeping hands warm back then ????
Lol. Look at Bradshaw compared to Brady. Do you see Brady’s throwing hand in his heat pocket before the snap and a glove on his left hand ?
What do you see for Bradshaw?
You see absolutely nothing.
He didnt run a lot or effectively over all. He ran a lot in 71 and 72 and didnt really have great results. 1978 running 32 times for 98 yards thats just scrambling for minimal yards not a running QB.
You dont need pockets to keep a hand warm it just makes it easier. It cant be ignored that everyone should have been fumbling a lot more on the team and in those games if the cold was the reason
@perkdog said:
Cleveland and Houston both come to mind as tough ones.
Otto Graham or Jim.Brown
Earl Campbell or Warren Moon
Pittsburgh? That might be the toughest one though
Bradshaw?
Franco Harris?
Swann?
Name a Defensive player?
Bradshaw was very average and got carried to SB wins
When you’re voted 1st team 1970’s All Decade NFL team that not only means that you’re way above average, it means you were the best.
“Carried to Super Bowl wins”?
Other way around. He had a better QB rating then Staubach twice, Tarkenton and VF in all four Super Bowls. He was MVP 2 of 4 and should have been 3 or 4 for 4.
Staubach was the reason Dallas lost their first SB to Pittsburgh throwing three crucial picks to Bradshaw’s none.
In other words, Pittsburgh was 4for4 because of TB.
Staubach was better than Bradshaw in 78,
Bradshaw was the best QB in 78 and he proved it in the super bowl. Double MVP year that he earned.
Thats true if you ignore the fact that Staubach threw for more yards, ran for more yards, had more total yards, had a better TD to INT rate, and fumbled less
Terry and Roger were both great.
Look at the 1978 Super Bowl QB stats and rating for these guys. That’s how close they were.
Keep in mind that Landry used a lot more shotgun and Noll mostly threw on 3rd and 8. Roger threw in a much more pass oriented offense then Terry did. Terry’s and Griese’s numbers are what they are because of run oriented coaches, who did alter their philosophies towards the end of the decade. Like I said before, you can’t compare Griese throwing for 1,500 yards in 72 to Namath throwing 4,000 yards in 69. It’s all about the coaching philosophy.
Thats certainly true for throwing yards that a coach can keep those suppressed. It wouldnt account for the turnovers though and if anything a QB like that should have fewer turnovers and fumbles. If you were to put Rodger on the 78 Steelers he would have been the MVP. The voters penalized him for the Cowboys record and rewarded Terry for the Steelers record.
I still dont understand how any of them could possibly vote Terry for MVP and someone else for offensive player of the year, but they did.
I suppose the average high temperature in Dallas in November and December in 1978 being in the 60’s and Pittsburgh the 30’s and 40’s wouldn’t have anything to do with ball handling. Some days were in the 20’s in Pittsburgh that December.
Ever play football in 30 degree weather as opposed to 60 degrees?
The skin on your hands begin to shrivel up and you lose your grip.
Yes I have played in extremely cold weather. Everyone should have been fumbling if the weather was the reason. Even back then there were numerous ways to keep hands warm and create grip. Its not like the ball was a hot potato that no one could hold onto. He fumbled a lot in his career for a guy that didnt really run
The difference in the MVP voting was the team record
Bradshaw ran a lot. Go check his stats please.
The difference in the voting was Staubach was terrible in key games that year contributing to Dallas losses. Staubach was THE reason the Cowboys lost so much that year, just like when he threw 3 picks against Pittsburgh in his first SB against them.
Keeping hands warm back then ????
Lol. Look at Bradshaw compared to Brady. Do you see Brady’s throwing hand in his heat pocket before the snap and a glove on his left hand ?
What do you see for Bradshaw?
You see absolutely nothing.
He didnt run a lot or effectively over all.
I’d advise you to do your homework next time before making statements.
What you are doing is showing yourself as someone who just says stuff without knowledge of the facts. I say this in a friendly way so you can be a more effective contributor to the forum.
As you see below Staubach and Bradshaw ran about the same over their careers with both QBs averaging over 5 yards per carry. They both were very good at scrambling and running.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
Roger Staubach was NEVER nfl MVP.
The reason being as can be seen above where his comparable stats in big games against other QBs is shown, was that the bigger the game, the smaller he played.
On the other hand, the greatest QB in the 1970’s was quite the opposite.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
@craig44 said:
It appears to me that Bradshaw was an effective runner from 74-77 as well.
Spot on.
His best running year was his first year 1970, when he was very involved in turning a 1-13 Steelers team the previous year into a 5-9 team his rookie year.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
I think that people need to understand that players can only play to the coaches game plan. I am not familiar with Noll's game plans from the 70's, but if most of Bradshaws attempts came on 3rd and long situations, we shouldnt hold him to the same standard of a QB whos coach used play action and would throw often on all downs.
I know Brady's career very well. He was considered a "game manager" for a number of seasons. then he had his breakout season in 07 at age 30. Nothing magical happened to change Brady for 07. he was the same player as he was at 26, the coaching staff brought in playmakers and opened up the playbook that season. Had they done that in 2004, I am convinced Toms breakout season would have been then.
a lot of the statistics that we attempt to compare also need to be analyzed in context as well. Perhaps Bradshaws stats would have been better had a different offensive scheme been implemented earlier.
@craig44 said:
I think that people need to understand that players can only play to the coaches game plan. I am not familiar with Noll's game plans from the 70's, but if most of Bradshaws attempts came on 3rd and long situations, we shouldnt hold him to the same standard of a QB whos coach used play action and would throw often on all downs.
I know Brady's career very well. He was considered a "game manager" for a number of seasons. then he had his breakout season in 07 at age 30. Nothing magical happened to change Brady for 07. he was the same player as he was at 26, the coaching staff brought in playmakers and opened up the playbook that season. Had they done that in 2004, I am convinced Toms breakout season would have been then.
a lot of the statistics that we attempt to compare also need to be analyzed in context as well. Perhaps Bradshaws stats would have been better had a different offensive scheme been implemented earlier.
Exactly.
Understanding why Namath threw for 4,000 yards in the 60’s compared to Shula’s and Noll’s offensive philosophy in the early to mid 70’s is vital.
Griese and Bradshaw mostly to always threw on 3rd and long.
Tarkenton in 1978 as can be seen on the stats above threw on downs 1 through 3 all year long.
Bradshaw and Steve Grogan in 1978 had two coaches that preferred the running game.
They mostly threw on 3rd and long and with No shotgun like Staubach had with Landry.
Guys who only look at stats from 1980 and earlier do not see the bigger picture of who was great and why.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
One of the reasons why Terry Bradshaw was so good was because he played for one of the top 2 most difficult coaches for a QB to play for not only in the 1970’s, but in the history of the game. Shula and Noll.
Who by the way did evolve their game plans more into a passing offense later in the 70’s, but by the 1978 passing leaders chart will show, not by much
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
@craig44 said:
I think that people need to understand that players can only play to the coaches game plan. I am not familiar with Noll's game plans from the 70's, but if most of Bradshaws attempts came on 3rd and long situations, we shouldnt hold him to the same standard of a QB whos coach used play action and would throw often on all downs.
I know Brady's career very well. He was considered a "game manager" for a number of seasons. then he had his breakout season in 07 at age 30. Nothing magical happened to change Brady for 07. he was the same player as he was at 26, the coaching staff brought in playmakers and opened up the playbook that season. Had they done that in 2004, I am convinced Toms breakout season would have been then.
a lot of the statistics that we attempt to compare also need to be analyzed in context as well. Perhaps Bradshaws stats would have been better had a different offensive scheme been implemented earlier.
Exactly.
Understanding why Namath threw for 4,000 yards in the 60’s compared to Shula’s and Noll’s offensive philosophy in the early to mid 70’s is vital.
Griese and Bradshaw mostly to always threw on 3rd and long.
>
There's a reason for that. In all three SB appearances, Larry Csonka was at his peak as a runner, gaining 1,000 yards each year. It's the same with Franco Harris, who rushed for 1,000 yards in each year the Steelers won the big game. In fact, the Steelers would have probably won more Superbowls with a better quarterback as Franco Harris was unstoppable. Look at the playoffs in 1976 with Franco the Steelers destroyed the Colts, but with Harris out of the lineup against the Raiders, Bradshaw's here's what Terry did;
>
>
>
Tarkenton in 1978 as can be seen on the stats above threw on downs 1 through 3 all year long.
Yes, because Foreman was no longer a good runner. This was the era I am most familiar with. Teams looked for a strong defense and a stud running back, they didn't need a great QB to win the SB.
Bradshaw had a great arm, great legs (early in his career he was the second fastest runner on the Steelers), but he was just NOT a smart QB.
Those Steelers defenses were among the best ever and Franco Harris was probably the fastest big running back of that era.
The team carried Bradshaw for his entire career. He is VERY over rated.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@craig44 said:
I think that people need to understand that players can only play to the coaches game plan. I am not familiar with Noll's game plans from the 70's, but if most of Bradshaws attempts came on 3rd and long situations, we shouldnt hold him to the same standard of a QB whos coach used play action and would throw often on all downs.
I know Brady's career very well. He was considered a "game manager" for a number of seasons. then he had his breakout season in 07 at age 30. Nothing magical happened to change Brady for 07. he was the same player as he was at 26, the coaching staff brought in playmakers and opened up the playbook that season. Had they done that in 2004, I am convinced Toms breakout season would have been then.
a lot of the statistics that we attempt to compare also need to be analyzed in context as well. Perhaps Bradshaws stats would have been better had a different offensive scheme been implemented earlier.
Exactly.
Understanding why Namath threw for 4,000 yards in the 60’s compared to Shula’s and Noll’s offensive philosophy in the early to mid 70’s is vital.
Griese and Bradshaw mostly to always threw on 3rd and long.
>
There's a reason for that. In all three SB appearances, Larry Csonka was at his peak as a runner, gaining 1,000 yards each year. It's the same with Franco Harris, who rushed for 1,000 yards in each year the Steelers won the big game. In fact, the Steelers would have probably won more Superbowls with a better quarterback as Franco Harris was unstoppable. Look at the playoffs in 1976 with Franco the Steelers destroyed the Colts, but with Harris out of the lineup against the Raiders, Bradshaw's here's what Terry did;
>
>
>
Tarkenton in 1978 as can be seen on the stats above threw on downs 1 through 3 all year long.
Yes, because Foreman was no longer a good runner. This was the era I am most familiar with. Teams looked for a strong defense and a stud running back, they didn't need a great QB to win the SB.
Bradshaw had a great arm, great legs (early in his career he was the second fastest runner on the Steelers), but he was just NOT a smart QB.
Those Steelers defenses were among the best ever and Franco Harris was probably the fastest big running back of that era.
The team carried Bradshaw for his entire career. He is VERY over rated.
Yes. Everyone realizes Bradshaw and the Steelers didn’t win 10 out of 10 Super Bowls in the 70’s.
They had their share of losing, but were 4 for 4 in Super Bowls in the 70’s, with Bradshaw getting 2 MVP’s and could of had four.
Just an FYI. OJ Simpson was the best running back in the 70’s, and Greg Pruitt averaged more yards per carry then Franco and Larry, who are very equal with a lot of other runners from the 70’s in their ypc.
I know you saw Franco and Larry run over your Vikings, doesn’t mean they were so much greater then other backs in that decade.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
Teams looked for a strong defense and a stud running back, they didn't need a great QB to win the SB.
Very surprised someone as knowledgeable as you made this statement.
31 straight winning Super Bowl teams from Green Bay’s first victory onward saw the winning QB have a higher QB rating in the Super Bowl then the losing team’s QB.
In other words, the greater QB won the game each time for 31 straight years. After those 31 straight years it happened again and again 90% of the time.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
No Franco. No Csonka.
Four other RB’s but not them.
You only saw the Vikings against them.
They weren’t even close to Sweetness, OJ, or Earl.
In 1972 RB Larry Brown won it over Csonka.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
Just an FYI. Oakland had a better record then us in the 1970’s decade, as did Dallas and Miami too.
In the immaculate reception game Oakland outgained us on the ground, but Bradshaw outplayed their two QB’s which got us the win, along with a fortunate ricochet.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
Franco Harris averaged 3 yards per carry. Some great back eh ? Should have used Rocky more ? He averaged 3 also.
We barely beat Dallas. Why did Dallas lose ? Look at the QB ratings between Bradshaw and Staubach !
Which QB threw three picks and which QB threw zero picks ?
Who’s overrated ?
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
Teams looked for a strong defense and a stud running back, they didn't need a great QB to win the SB.
Very surprised someone as knowledgeable as you made this statement.
31 straight winning Super Bowl teams from Green Bay’s first victory onward saw the winning QB have a higher QB rating in the Super Bowl then the losing team’s QB.
In other words, the greater QB won the game each time for 31 straight years. After those 31 straight years it happened again and again 90% of the time.
That's not the same thing. AT ALL.
Using your logic, the best quarterback during the regular season should win the SB every year. It's the best TEAM, that wins.
My point is proven that Bradshaw was able to be on the winning team 4 times, when he was actually NEVER the better of the two QBs playing that day. Pittsburgh won because they DIDN'T have to depend on Bradshaw, they had a top defense, running back and receivers.
Why did Bradshaw completely suck in the playoffs game against the Raiders? No Franco, no Rocky and no talent, actually he had some talent, he was an average NFL QB with a very strong arm.
The Vikings didn't lose to the Steelers and Dolphins because they got run over by two good backs, they lost because they couldn't run the ball themselves, and Tarkenton (about a million times better than Bradshaw) was forced to do it with no running game and no great receivers. The defenses knew it and when a team becomes one dimensional, they are going to lose.
I am not delusional about the Vikings, they were lacking great skill position players on offense to help Tarkenton, they weren't the better team in their last three SB appearances.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@4for4 said:
Here’s the 1976 Super Bowl where we beat Dallas.
Franco Harris averaged 3 yards per carry. Some great back eh ? Should have used Rocky more ? He averaged 3 also.
We barely beat Dallas. Why did Dallas lose ? Look at the QB ratings between Bradshaw and Staubach !
Which QB threw three picks and which QB threw zero picks ?
Who’s overrated ?
Because the Steelers defense sacked Roger 7 times.
Thank you, that's it!
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@4for4 said:
Just an FYI. Oakland had a better record then us in the 1970’s decade, as did Dallas and Miami too.
In the immaculate reception game Oakland outgained us on the ground, but Bradshaw outplayed their two QB’s which got us the win, along with a fortunate ricochet.
That's hilarious!
Without one of the flukiest plays in NFL history, Pittsburgh loses that game.
OMG, you bring "homerism" to an entire new universe. 🤣
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
No Franco. No Csonka.
Four other RB’s but not them.
You only saw the Vikings against them.
They weren’t even close to Sweetness, OJ, or Earl.
In 1972 RB Larry Brown won it over Csonka.
How many SB's did OJ and Earl or Larry play in? Payton got to one because of a...........wait for it..........great defense.
TEAM SPORT!
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
Without one of the flukiest plays in NFL history, Pittsburgh loses that game.
OMG, you bring "homerism" to an entire new universe. 🤣
I don't know how they're related, but Terry Bradshaw is a member of 4for4's family; there's really no other explanation. You'd think someone in that family would understand football at least a little bit, but apparently not.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
@perkdog said:
Cleveland and Houston both come to mind as tough ones.
Otto Graham or Jim.Brown
Earl Campbell or Warren Moon
Pittsburgh? That might be the toughest one though
Bradshaw?
Franco Harris?
Swann?
Name a Defensive player?
Bradshaw was very average and got carried to SB wins
When you’re voted 1st team 1970’s All Decade NFL team that not only means that you’re way above average, it means you were the best.
“Carried to Super Bowl wins”?
Other way around. He had a better QB rating then Staubach twice, Tarkenton and VF in all four Super Bowls. He was MVP 2 of 4 and should have been 3 or 4 for 4.
Staubach was the reason Dallas lost their first SB to Pittsburgh throwing three crucial picks to Bradshaw’s none.
In other words, Pittsburgh was 4for4 because of TB.
Staubach was better than Bradshaw in 78,
Bradshaw was the best QB in 78 and he proved it in the super bowl. Double MVP year that he earned.
Thats true if you ignore the fact that Staubach threw for more yards, ran for more yards, had more total yards, had a better TD to INT rate, and fumbled less
Terry and Roger were both great.
Look at the 1978 Super Bowl QB stats and rating for these guys. That’s how close they were.
Keep in mind that Landry used a lot more shotgun and Noll mostly threw on 3rd and 8. Roger threw in a much more pass oriented offense then Terry did. Terry’s and Griese’s numbers are what they are because of run oriented coaches, who did alter their philosophies towards the end of the decade. Like I said before, you can’t compare Griese throwing for 1,500 yards in 72 to Namath throwing 4,000 yards in 69. It’s all about the coaching philosophy.
Thats certainly true for throwing yards that a coach can keep those suppressed. It wouldnt account for the turnovers though and if anything a QB like that should have fewer turnovers and fumbles. If you were to put Rodger on the 78 Steelers he would have been the MVP. The voters penalized him for the Cowboys record and rewarded Terry for the Steelers record.
I still dont understand how any of them could possibly vote Terry for MVP and someone else for offensive player of the year, but they did.
I suppose the average high temperature in Dallas in November and December in 1978 being in the 60’s and Pittsburgh the 30’s and 40’s wouldn’t have anything to do with ball handling. Some days were in the 20’s in Pittsburgh that December.
Ever play football in 30 degree weather as opposed to 60 degrees?
The skin on your hands begin to shrivel up and you lose your grip.
Yes I have played in extremely cold weather. Everyone should have been fumbling if the weather was the reason. Even back then there were numerous ways to keep hands warm and create grip. Its not like the ball was a hot potato that no one could hold onto. He fumbled a lot in his career for a guy that didnt really run
The difference in the MVP voting was the team record
Bradshaw ran a lot. Go check his stats please.
The difference in the voting was Staubach was terrible in key games that year contributing to Dallas losses. Staubach was THE reason the Cowboys lost so much that year, just like when he threw 3 picks against Pittsburgh in his first SB against them.
Keeping hands warm back then ????
Lol. Look at Bradshaw compared to Brady. Do you see Brady’s throwing hand in his heat pocket before the snap and a glove on his left hand ?
What do you see for Bradshaw?
You see absolutely nothing.
He didnt run a lot or effectively over all.
I’d advise you to do your homework next time before making statements.
What you are doing is showing yourself as someone who just says stuff without knowledge of the facts. I say this in a friendly way so you can be a more effective contributor to the forum.
As you see below Staubach and Bradshaw ran about the same over their careers with both QBs averaging over 5 yards per carry. They both were very good at scrambling and running.
So your stat shows that someone else was a better runner but somehow that means Terry was better? Neither are great running numbers and just ignored Terrys turnover rates from fumbles and INTs and the 1978 season overall in the response.
What do career numbers have to do with who should be MVP for a season?
@perkdog said:
Cleveland and Houston both come to mind as tough ones.
Otto Graham or Jim.Brown
Earl Campbell or Warren Moon
Pittsburgh? That might be the toughest one though
Bradshaw?
Franco Harris?
Swann?
Name a Defensive player?
Bradshaw was very average and got carried to SB wins
When you’re voted 1st team 1970’s All Decade NFL team that not only means that you’re way above average, it means you were the best.
“Carried to Super Bowl wins”?
Other way around. He had a better QB rating then Staubach twice, Tarkenton and VF in all four Super Bowls. He was MVP 2 of 4 and should have been 3 or 4 for 4.
Staubach was the reason Dallas lost their first SB to Pittsburgh throwing three crucial picks to Bradshaw’s none.
In other words, Pittsburgh was 4for4 because of TB.
Staubach was better than Bradshaw in 78,
Bradshaw was the best QB in 78 and he proved it in the super bowl. Double MVP year that he earned.
Thats true if you ignore the fact that Staubach threw for more yards, ran for more yards, had more total yards, had a better TD to INT rate, and fumbled less
Terry and Roger were both great.
Look at the 1978 Super Bowl QB stats and rating for these guys. That’s how close they were.
Keep in mind that Landry used a lot more shotgun and Noll mostly threw on 3rd and 8. Roger threw in a much more pass oriented offense then Terry did. Terry’s and Griese’s numbers are what they are because of run oriented coaches, who did alter their philosophies towards the end of the decade. Like I said before, you can’t compare Griese throwing for 1,500 yards in 72 to Namath throwing 4,000 yards in 69. It’s all about the coaching philosophy.
Thats certainly true for throwing yards that a coach can keep those suppressed. It wouldnt account for the turnovers though and if anything a QB like that should have fewer turnovers and fumbles. If you were to put Rodger on the 78 Steelers he would have been the MVP. The voters penalized him for the Cowboys record and rewarded Terry for the Steelers record.
I still dont understand how any of them could possibly vote Terry for MVP and someone else for offensive player of the year, but they did.
I suppose the average high temperature in Dallas in November and December in 1978 being in the 60’s and Pittsburgh the 30’s and 40’s wouldn’t have anything to do with ball handling. Some days were in the 20’s in Pittsburgh that December.
Ever play football in 30 degree weather as opposed to 60 degrees?
The skin on your hands begin to shrivel up and you lose your grip.
Yes I have played in extremely cold weather. Everyone should have been fumbling if the weather was the reason. Even back then there were numerous ways to keep hands warm and create grip. Its not like the ball was a hot potato that no one could hold onto. He fumbled a lot in his career for a guy that didnt really run
The difference in the MVP voting was the team record
Bradshaw ran a lot. Go check his stats please.
The difference in the voting was Staubach was terrible in key games that year contributing to Dallas losses. Staubach was THE reason the Cowboys lost so much that year, just like when he threw 3 picks against Pittsburgh in his first SB against them.
Keeping hands warm back then ????
Lol. Look at Bradshaw compared to Brady. Do you see Brady’s throwing hand in his heat pocket before the snap and a glove on his left hand ?
What do you see for Bradshaw?
You see absolutely nothing.
He didnt run a lot or effectively over all.
I’d advise you to do your homework next time before making statements.
What you are doing is showing yourself as someone who just says stuff without knowledge of the facts. I say this in a friendly way so you can be a more effective contributor to the forum.
As you see below Staubach and Bradshaw ran about the same over their careers with both QBs averaging over 5 yards per carry. They both were very good at scrambling and running.
So your stat shows that someone else was a better runner but somehow that means Terry was better? Neither are great running numbers and just ignored Terrys turnover rates from fumbles and INTs and the 1978 season overall in the response.
What do career numbers have to do with who should be MVP for a season?
The 1978 MVP isn’t a discussion anymore.
Terry threw for more TDs and had a higher completion percentage even though Roger threw way more passes.
@4for4 said:
Here’s the 1976 Super Bowl where we beat Dallas.
Franco Harris averaged 3 yards per carry. Some great back eh ? Should have used Rocky more ? He averaged 3 also.
We barely beat Dallas. Why did Dallas lose ? Look at the QB ratings between Bradshaw and Staubach !
Which QB threw three picks and which QB threw zero picks ?
Who’s overrated ?
Because the Steelers defense sacked Roger 7 times.
Thank you, that's it!
Had nothing to do with Staubach throwing 3 picks to Terry throwing none? Lol. Your desire to give Bradshaw zero credit for his precision passing that day is laughable.
How about this one…………
1979 Super Bowl
Dallas outgains us 154 to 66 on the ground.
Same amount of sacks each team -1.
Look at the QB’s. Why did we win 35-31 with your hero Franco Harris doing nothing all game long ? And our defense getting outplayed by their defense?
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
Tony Dorsett got 6 yards per carry in the 1979 SB and Franco Harris got 3 yards per carry, but according to Joe our defense was the reason we won everything and Bradshaw had nothing to do with it. 😂
Ok Joe. In the 1979 SB our defense failed us, giving up 31 points and couldn’t stop the run.
Our run game failed us, only averaging 3 yards per carry.
How in the world did we score 35 and avoid getting embarrassed by Dallas in that Super Bowl ? 😂
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
Here is a question unrelated to how great Bradshaw was as a QB.
I have seen many highlight reels from the 70's, but I wasnt old enough to actually attend any games then. Bradshaw seemed to have a cannon for an arm. Did he have the best arm out of any QB from the 1970's?
Comments
Terry and Roger were both great.
Look at the 1978 Super Bowl QB stats and rating for these guys. That’s how close they were.
Keep in mind that Landry used a lot more shotgun and Noll mostly threw on 3rd and 8. Roger threw in a much more pass oriented offense then Terry did. Terry’s and Griese’s numbers are what they are because of run oriented coaches, who did alter their philosophies towards the end of the decade. Like I said before, you can’t compare Griese throwing for 1,500 yards in 72 to Namath throwing 4,000 yards in 69. It’s all about the coaching philosophy.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
I'm struggling to come up with a NY Jets great. Does Joe count due to the one SB?
Let’s say Tom Brady’s nickname was Captain America. He played for America’s team in an open stadium so God could watch them play on Sunday.
Let’s say your guy Mahomes was referred to as just a dumb southern hick, who played in a dirty steel town with blue collar workers instead of wealthy oil people watching.
All your dumb southern hick Mahomes did was beat Captain America Brady in two Super Bowls, get voted QB of the decade over Brady, win Super Bowl MVPs over Brady, and yet year after year later people said your dumb southern hick Mahomes either “sucked” or was an average QB.
Also many here who were 7 years old when Mahomes was schooling Brady didn’t understand the offensive philosophy restraints Mahomes had, that made his stats worse. He played for a coach that wasn’t pass first, run second.
Just imagine years from now people saying Mahomes wasn’t ever good. He sucked. He was average.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
Yes.
I think Suzy agrees with you too.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
Washington Redskins: I'd vote for Darrell Green ... long 20 year career with same team, played at high level the entire time, multiple pro bowls, nfl's fastest man for years.
Old timers would probably say Sammy Baugh, but most people alive never saw him play
Some honorable mentions: John Riggins, Art Monk, Charlie Taylor, Sonny Jurgensen.
If he lived longer and not been murdered, i bet Sean Taylor would have been in the running for at least an HM.
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
Oakland Raiders is a tough one but I’ll choose Ray Guy.
Sweetness was 1st team all decade in the 70’s and 80’s. I think he is it for the Bears.
Unitas for the Colts.
Don’t understand the knock on Bradshaw. What a player.
Page for the Vikings and the Rams is a tough one.
Cowboys - Roger Staubach
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Not sure he’s even close to Bob Lilly.
Lilly
14 straight years didn’t miss a game.
11 All Pro ( 1 more then Joe Greene).
Let the debate begin.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Thats certainly true for throwing yards that a coach can keep those suppressed. It wouldnt account for the turnovers though and if anything a QB like that should have fewer turnovers and fumbles. If you were to put Rodger on the 78 Steelers he would have been the MVP. The voters penalized him for the Cowboys record and rewarded Terry for the Steelers record.
I still dont understand how any of them could possibly vote Terry for MVP and someone else for offensive player of the year, but they did.
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
This
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Ray Guy?
I’m going Art Shell, Gene Upshaw, Marcus Allen or Bo even though he didn’t last long over a punter.
They had several great receivers and d backs as well.
I suppose the average high temperature in Dallas in November and December in 1978 being in the 60’s and Pittsburgh the 30’s and 40’s wouldn’t have anything to do with ball handling. Some days were in the 20’s in Pittsburgh that December.
Ever play football in 30 degree weather as opposed to 60 degrees?
The skin on your hands begin to shrivel up and you lose your grip.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
Staubachs four losses in 1978. He was very poor. The voters saw what he did against LA, Washington, Minnesota and Miami. He got badly outplayed in all those key games.
-
-
-
-
-
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
Staubach's stats against the steelers in 1979 were pretty poor as well.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Here’s the top 10 passing leaders from 1978. Passing yards that is.
Which QB threw the ball the least ?
Did he have a better completion percentage than Staubach?
Did he throw more TDs then Staubach.
Wow ! Look at all those yards Tarkenton threw for. Yeah, look at those attempts he had compared to Bradshaw.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
I would say either LT or Seau
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I would say either LT or Seau> @BLUEJAYWAY said:
how about Revis? Gasteneau?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I think Green would be a great choice for washington.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Marcus would be a good choice. Bo didnt play that long, but he was lightening when he did
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Yes I have played in extremely cold weather. Everyone should have been fumbling if the weather was the reason. Even back then there were numerous ways to keep hands warm and create grip. Its not like the ball was a hot potato that no one could hold onto. He fumbled a lot in his career for a guy that didnt really run
The difference in the MVP voting was the team record
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
Bradshaw ran a lot. Go check his stats please.
The difference in the voting was Staubach was terrible in key games that year contributing to Dallas losses. Staubach was THE reason the Cowboys lost so much that year, just like when he threw 3 picks against Pittsburgh in his first SB against them.
Keeping hands warm back then ????
Lol. Look at Bradshaw compared to Brady. Do you see Brady’s throwing hand in his heat pocket before the snap and a glove on his left hand ?
What do you see for Bradshaw?
You see absolutely nothing.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
He didnt run a lot or effectively over all. He ran a lot in 71 and 72 and didnt really have great results. 1978 running 32 times for 98 yards thats just scrambling for minimal yards not a running QB.
You dont need pockets to keep a hand warm it just makes it easier. It cant be ignored that everyone should have been fumbling a lot more on the team and in those games if the cold was the reason
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
I’d advise you to do your homework next time before making statements.
What you are doing is showing yourself as someone who just says stuff without knowledge of the facts. I say this in a friendly way so you can be a more effective contributor to the forum.
As you see below Staubach and Bradshaw ran about the same over their careers with both QBs averaging over 5 yards per carry. They both were very good at scrambling and running.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
Just an FYI -
Roger Staubach was NEVER nfl MVP.
The reason being as can be seen above where his comparable stats in big games against other QBs is shown, was that the bigger the game, the smaller he played.
On the other hand, the greatest QB in the 1970’s was quite the opposite.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
It appears to me that Bradshaw was an effective runner from 74-77 as well.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Spot on.
His best running year was his first year 1970, when he was very involved in turning a 1-13 Steelers team the previous year into a 5-9 team his rookie year.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
I think that people need to understand that players can only play to the coaches game plan. I am not familiar with Noll's game plans from the 70's, but if most of Bradshaws attempts came on 3rd and long situations, we shouldnt hold him to the same standard of a QB whos coach used play action and would throw often on all downs.
I know Brady's career very well. He was considered a "game manager" for a number of seasons. then he had his breakout season in 07 at age 30. Nothing magical happened to change Brady for 07. he was the same player as he was at 26, the coaching staff brought in playmakers and opened up the playbook that season. Had they done that in 2004, I am convinced Toms breakout season would have been then.
a lot of the statistics that we attempt to compare also need to be analyzed in context as well. Perhaps Bradshaws stats would have been better had a different offensive scheme been implemented earlier.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Exactly.
Understanding why Namath threw for 4,000 yards in the 60’s compared to Shula’s and Noll’s offensive philosophy in the early to mid 70’s is vital.
Griese and Bradshaw mostly to always threw on 3rd and long.
Tarkenton in 1978 as can be seen on the stats above threw on downs 1 through 3 all year long.
Bradshaw and Steve Grogan in 1978 had two coaches that preferred the running game.
They mostly threw on 3rd and long and with No shotgun like Staubach had with Landry.
Guys who only look at stats from 1980 and earlier do not see the bigger picture of who was great and why.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
🏈😎
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
One of the reasons why Terry Bradshaw was so good was because he played for one of the top 2 most difficult coaches for a QB to play for not only in the 1970’s, but in the history of the game. Shula and Noll.
Who by the way did evolve their game plans more into a passing offense later in the 70’s, but by the 1978 passing leaders chart will show, not by much
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
>
There's a reason for that. In all three SB appearances, Larry Csonka was at his peak as a runner, gaining 1,000 yards each year. It's the same with Franco Harris, who rushed for 1,000 yards in each year the Steelers won the big game. In fact, the Steelers would have probably won more Superbowls with a better quarterback as Franco Harris was unstoppable. Look at the playoffs in 1976 with Franco the Steelers destroyed the Colts, but with Harris out of the lineup against the Raiders, Bradshaw's here's what Terry did;
>
>
>
Yes, because Foreman was no longer a good runner. This was the era I am most familiar with. Teams looked for a strong defense and a stud running back, they didn't need a great QB to win the SB.
Bradshaw had a great arm, great legs (early in his career he was the second fastest runner on the Steelers), but he was just NOT a smart QB.
Those Steelers defenses were among the best ever and Franco Harris was probably the fastest big running back of that era.
The team carried Bradshaw for his entire career. He is VERY over rated.
Yes. Everyone realizes Bradshaw and the Steelers didn’t win 10 out of 10 Super Bowls in the 70’s.
They had their share of losing, but were 4 for 4 in Super Bowls in the 70’s, with Bradshaw getting 2 MVP’s and could of had four.
Just an FYI. OJ Simpson was the best running back in the 70’s, and Greg Pruitt averaged more yards per carry then Franco and Larry, who are very equal with a lot of other runners from the 70’s in their ypc.
I know you saw Franco and Larry run over your Vikings, doesn’t mean they were so much greater then other backs in that decade.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
Very surprised someone as knowledgeable as you made this statement.
31 straight winning Super Bowl teams from Green Bay’s first victory onward saw the winning QB have a higher QB rating in the Super Bowl then the losing team’s QB.
In other words, the greater QB won the game each time for 31 straight years. After those 31 straight years it happened again and again 90% of the time.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
NFL MVPs in the 1970’s.
No Franco. No Csonka.
Four other RB’s but not them.
You only saw the Vikings against them.
They weren’t even close to Sweetness, OJ, or Earl.
In 1972 RB Larry Brown won it over Csonka.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
Just an FYI. Oakland had a better record then us in the 1970’s decade, as did Dallas and Miami too.
In the immaculate reception game Oakland outgained us on the ground, but Bradshaw outplayed their two QB’s which got us the win, along with a fortunate ricochet.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
Here’s the 1976 Super Bowl where we beat Dallas.
Franco Harris averaged 3 yards per carry. Some great back eh ? Should have used Rocky more ? He averaged 3 also.
We barely beat Dallas. Why did Dallas lose ? Look at the QB ratings between Bradshaw and Staubach !
Which QB threw three picks and which QB threw zero picks ?
Who’s overrated ?
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
That's not the same thing. AT ALL.
Using your logic, the best quarterback during the regular season should win the SB every year. It's the best TEAM, that wins.
My point is proven that Bradshaw was able to be on the winning team 4 times, when he was actually NEVER the better of the two QBs playing that day. Pittsburgh won because they DIDN'T have to depend on Bradshaw, they had a top defense, running back and receivers.
Why did Bradshaw completely suck in the playoffs game against the Raiders? No Franco, no Rocky and no talent, actually he had some talent, he was an average NFL QB with a very strong arm.
The Vikings didn't lose to the Steelers and Dolphins because they got run over by two good backs, they lost because they couldn't run the ball themselves, and Tarkenton (about a million times better than Bradshaw) was forced to do it with no running game and no great receivers. The defenses knew it and when a team becomes one dimensional, they are going to lose.
I am not delusional about the Vikings, they were lacking great skill position players on offense to help Tarkenton, they weren't the better team in their last three SB appearances.
Because the Steelers defense sacked Roger 7 times.
Thank you, that's it!
That's hilarious!
Without one of the flukiest plays in NFL history, Pittsburgh loses that game.
OMG, you bring "homerism" to an entire new universe. 🤣
How many SB's did OJ and Earl or Larry play in? Payton got to one because of a...........wait for it..........great defense.
TEAM SPORT!
I don't know how they're related, but Terry Bradshaw is a member of 4for4's family; there's really no other explanation. You'd think someone in that family would understand football at least a little bit, but apparently not.
Looks like to me 4for4 won yet another debate against these Bradshaw haters
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
So your stat shows that someone else was a better runner but somehow that means Terry was better? Neither are great running numbers and just ignored Terrys turnover rates from fumbles and INTs and the 1978 season overall in the response.
What do career numbers have to do with who should be MVP for a season?
Wisconsin 2-6 against the SEC since 2007
The 1978 MVP isn’t a discussion anymore.
Terry threw for more TDs and had a higher completion percentage even though Roger threw way more passes.
Had nothing to do with Staubach throwing 3 picks to Terry throwing none? Lol. Your desire to give Bradshaw zero credit for his precision passing that day is laughable.
How about this one…………
1979 Super Bowl
Dallas outgains us 154 to 66 on the ground.
Same amount of sacks each team -1.
Look at the QB’s. Why did we win 35-31 with your hero Franco Harris doing nothing all game long ? And our defense getting outplayed by their defense?
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
Tony Dorsett got 6 yards per carry in the 1979 SB and Franco Harris got 3 yards per carry, but according to Joe our defense was the reason we won everything and Bradshaw had nothing to do with it. 😂
Ok Joe. In the 1979 SB our defense failed us, giving up 31 points and couldn’t stop the run.
Our run game failed us, only averaging 3 yards per carry.
How in the world did we score 35 and avoid getting embarrassed by Dallas in that Super Bowl ? 😂
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
I tend to feel less intelligent whenever I hear that Bradshaw wasn’t awesome.
Here is a question unrelated to how great Bradshaw was as a QB.
I have seen many highlight reels from the 70's, but I wasnt old enough to actually attend any games then. Bradshaw seemed to have a cannon for an arm. Did he have the best arm out of any QB from the 1970's?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
......
I'm sorry, sir, that's not allowed... 😜
He’s just trying to catch you craig44 in posts count. He’s only 59 behind.😄