The Enigmatic 1840-o No Drapery Quarter

Morgan White

No drapery quarters were the original design when seated quarters were first issued in 1838. They were issued in 1838 and 1839 at Philadelphia and 1840 at New Orleans.

The 1840-o no drapery quarter however, is unlike the Philadelphia counterparts. It is also quite unlike any other seated quarter issue with several noticeable differences. It has unusually short dentils that create a much larger field and give it almost a cameo appearance. The rock is also different from the other no drapery issues and is more like the drapery issues which makes the 1840-o somewhat of a transitional issue.

Here are the coins for comparison.

To add to the mystery, one of the two large O no drapery reverse dies was reworked to make the dentils longer and reused with the drapery obverse, creating what Larry Briggs calls the rarest collectible seated quarter with probably around 35 known today.

CaptHenway

The visual effect of that thin rim has always fascinated me.
Thanks for the thread.

edwardjulio

This one (IMO) has the nice visual effect:

Morgan White

@edwardjulio said:
This one (IMO) has the nice visual effect:

That's the reverse that was reworked and paired with the drapery obverse.

alaura22

Interesting
Thanks for sharing

seatedlib3991

I have always been puzzled as to why the 1840-O no drapery is considered plentiful by Bower's Redbook on Seated coins yet lists for half the price of the WD. Also, the No Drapery has an original minting of 382,200 while the With Drapery has a mintage of only 43,000. Is it a type coin effect?

Morgan White

@seatedlib3991 said:
I have always been puzzled as to why the 1840-O no drapery is considered plentiful by Bower's Redbook on Seated coins yet lists for half the price of the WD. Also, the No Drapery has an original minting of 382,200 while the With Drapery has a mintage of only 43,000. Is it a type coin effect?

The ND is far more available than the WD.

seatedlib3991

Yes but take a sample coin.
1840 no drapery. mintage 382,200. CDN in 35 468.00 combined PCGS/NGC pop 527
1840 with drap. . mintage 43,000. CDN in 35 390.00 combined PCGS/NGC pop 263.

Doesn't that seem upside down to you? Mintage smaller, price lower. population smaller.

fathom

Demand for the type has pushed up values.

Also there were many found in the excavation of a New Orleans bank construction site.

rhedden

I always figured the 1840-o ND to be the most common "O" mint quarter in the entire series. Trying to find a nice AU that hasn't been processed in a chemical bath is another matter, though. I've never owned a high-grade example of this issue, and my current coin is PCGS VF30 with original skin.

Crepidodera

Here's my 1840-O ND example, PCGS AU55 CAC.
I've always considered the reported mintage of the 1840-O WD to be incorrect.

Doug

RLSnapper

I was looking at these last night on Ebay. There are two distinct reverses with the placement of the O mintmark above the AR and a second with the mintmark between RD. There is even a weak mintmark variety of the AR placement.
I just sent off an 1839 No Drapery for cetification. I needed a coin to round out a submission. This has got me thinking that a No Drapery quarter set would be a fun short set. Can someone point me to the best reference that would list all the varieties. Thanks.

Davidk7

Here is an 1840-O No Drapery Quarter that I bought raw, and then subbed to PCGS (Graded MS62). Ended up selling it to Gerry Fortin.

yosclimber

@RLSnapper said:
I was looking at these last night on Ebay. There are two distinct reverses with the placement of the O mintmark above the AR and a second with the mintmark between RD. There is even a weak mintmark variety of the AR placement.
I just sent off an 1839 No Drapery for cetification. I needed a coin to round out a submission. This has got me thinking that a No Drapery quarter set would be a fun short set. Can someone point me to the best reference that would list all the varieties. Thanks.

The Briggs book shows exactly those 2 die pairs and the weak mint mark as a late die state on the first one.
You can find a free online version if you do a google search on:
briggs seated quarter varieties

Morgan White

Here's an online copy of the Briggs reference.

https://seateddimevarieties.com/Briggs/chapters.htm

Eddi

This is a very interesting discussion - thank you very much for posting it.
I only have a WD variety and was not aware varieties exist.

My pictures are really terrible, my apologies.

fastfreddie

Great thread. Agree with @Crepidodera. W/drapery mintage seems suspicious. Survival estimates put the ND-o at 900 pieces and the WD-o at 600.
P50CAC

Morgan White

The problem with the mintage figures for 1840-o is that both types are included in the total. If you look at an old Red Book the mintages are combined at 425,200. Someone along the way decided the figure for ND was 382,200 and WD 43,000, probably from delivery records.

The WD is undoubtedly much more rare, my guess is 3 to 1, which would divide the mintage more along the lines of 325,200 and 100,000 which I'm sure doesn't match any delivery records. I'd bet though that ND and WD coins were mixed in deliveries.

I also agree with @rhedden the ND is maybe the most common New Orleans seated quarter. The 53,54,56,57 are pretty common as well though.

coindeuce

This is my 1840-O W/D FS-501.