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76-CC Trade Dollar 1/1 - Die Marriage Discovery coin - for T$ super-fans

lermishlermish Posts: 2,605 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited September 25, 2023 5:56PM in U.S. Coin Forum

I won this coin last night for my chopmarked trade dollar variety set; I was very excited to add a very tough Obv 1 Rev 1 coin as it is a very tough variety. However, I am not an expert. I consulted with @OriginalDan and apparently there were only two known (EDIT: actually 3, see below) reverse dies for the type 1 76-CC; the DDR and the Wide CC. Hunting through CoinFacts I was able to find a matching reverse die on a 75-CC to confirm the authenticity and discovery. I'm pretty stoked about this addition (other than having to placate my wife once she finds out how far into nerd-dom I've descended)!

Here is the 76-CC:

Here is an example of the matching reverse die on the 75-CC:

I look forward to hearing from @alefzero and @keoj !

Comments

  • PeakRaritiesPeakRarities Posts: 3,542 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very cool! You're too far down the rabbit hole for me to be of any assistance, but I will watch with enthusiasm and cheer you on from the sidelines. :D

    Founder- Peak Rarities
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  • kazkaz Posts: 9,137 ✭✭✭✭✭

    cool find, I like the chops. I believe this is more scarce than the wide cc or the DDR. Here is mine ( old clean dip AU)

  • lermishlermish Posts: 2,605 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 25, 2023 5:35PM

    The only two previously known 76-CC type 1 reverses were the Doubled Die:

    and the Wide CC:

    EDIT: These are off of coinfacts, not my coins.

  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,933 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lermish Wow, really neat discovery - congratulations!

    The only thing I can add is that there are actually 3 Type 1 reverse die marriages previously described by @alefzero - the C-1 and C-2, as shown in your images above, and the C-3, which @kaz posted an example of.

    See:

    http://registry.ssdcvams.com/Trade/1876-CC_Trade.html

    So your new die marriage discovery is the 4th Type 1 reverse variety (rather than third). Very exciting find!

  • lermishlermish Posts: 2,605 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 25, 2023 5:52PM

    @IkesT said:
    @lermish Wow, really neat discovery - congratulations!

    The only thing I can add is that there are actually 3 Type 1 reverse die marriages previously described by @alefzero - the C-1 and C-2, as shown in your images above, and the C-3, which @kaz posted an example of.

    See:

    http://registry.ssdcvams.com/Trade/1876-CC_Trade.html

    So your new die marriage discovery is the 4th Type 1 reverse variety (rather than third). Very exciting find!

    You are correct, don't know how I could forget about that one as I saw examples searching through pictures.

  • OriginalDanOriginalDan Posts: 3,744 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @IkesT said:
    @lermish Wow, really neat discovery - congratulations!

    The only thing I can add is that there are actually 3 Type 1 reverse die marriages previously described by @alefzero - the C-1 and C-2, as shown in your images above, and the C-3, which @kaz posted an example of.

    See:

    http://registry.ssdcvams.com/Trade/1876-CC_Trade.html

    So your new die marriage discovery is the 4th Type 1 reverse variety (rather than third). Very exciting find!

    Correct, this is a new discovery and the 4th known type 1 reverse die mated with a 76-CC obverse. Sorry @lermish if I confused things, I throw out the DDR sometimes in my head when I think about type 1's on this issue.

    Great coin and fun discovery!

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,592 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • stealerstealer Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭✭
    1. This is certainly a new type 1 reverse for 1876CC
    2. I don't agree this is a matching reverse die
    • I'm not convinced the MM positioning matches completely
    • Note the cracks coming off of the top of UNITED and STATES in the 75CC piece that does not exist on the 76CC piece.

    Unless these coins were struck out of order (76CC first, then 75CC) I don't see how these can be matching dies.

  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,933 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 26, 2023 2:16PM

    @stealer said:
    1. This is certainly a new type 1 reverse for 1876CC
    2. I don't agree this is a matching reverse die

    • I'm not convinced the MM positioning matches completely
    • Note the cracks coming off of the top of UNITED and STATES in the 75CC piece that does not exist on the 76CC piece.

    Unless these coins were struck out of order (76CC first, then 75CC) I don't see how these can be matching dies.

    They do match - they have the same mint mark position and same die cracks (the ones atop "UNITED STATES" show faintly on the 76CC, but they are there). Also, the denticles are full of matching gouges.

  • stealerstealer Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 26, 2023 2:18PM

    You are correct, these are definitely identical reverse dies re: mess of die lines in the reverse.

    Sure, die cracks are there but way less advanced than on the 76CC. Most obvious is the one going south from U in UNITED, or between TES of STATES.

    Something doesn't add up here...

  • mbogomanmbogoman Posts: 5,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stealer said:
    1. This is certainly a new type 1 reverse for 1876CC
    2. I don't agree this is a matching reverse die

    • I'm not convinced the MM positioning matches completely
    • Note the cracks coming off of the top of UNITED and STATES in the 75CC piece that does not exist on the 76CC piece.

    Unless these coins were struck out of order (76CC first, then 75CC) I don't see how these can be matching dies.

    Well spotted, Dan.

    I also see a very slight slant to the left in the leftmost mint mark "C" in the 76; the 75' s Cs appear aligned straight.Of course, this could just be my 66 year old eyes (and brain) imagining things ;)

    Nonetheless, a very cool find!!!

  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,933 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stealer said:
    You are correct, these are definitely identical reverse dies re: mess of die lines in the reverse.

    Sure, die cracks are there but way less advanced than on the 76CC. Most obvious is the one going south from U in UNITED, or between TES of STATES.

    Something doesn't add up here...

    Perhaps it's partly a photography issue - I can see the crack from "U" more clearly in the auction photo:

  • lermishlermish Posts: 2,605 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stealer said:
    You are correct, these are definitely identical reverse dies re: mess of die lines in the reverse.

    Sure, die cracks are there but way less advanced than on the 76CC. Most obvious is the one going south from U in UNITED, or between TES of STATES.

    Something doesn't add up here...

    I never claim to be an expert for just this sort of scenario o:)

    I looked at a few PUPs to try to identify. First, the lower serif on the second L and the mint mark which match to me. The die crack on UNI does appear fainter on the 76 vs the 75 however the 76 was circulated and I am doing this all via pictures.

    @OriginalDan noticed the die scratches in the dentils from above the second T in States all the way past the end of America. They are a perfect match.

    And that is the bleeding edge of my knowledge but I am very happy for any additional input.

  • OriginalDanOriginalDan Posts: 3,744 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 26, 2023 3:02PM

    the mess of die scratches in the dentils on the rev show these are absolutely the same dies. 100%

    my guess is the photography is hiding the die break lines on the 76, at least I’ve certainly been fooled before by a picture. @lermish can confirm when the coin is in hand.

  • alefzeroalefzero Posts: 958 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I catalogued it as C-11 (I94/I48), as C-10 was already allocated to a recently found I/II pair.

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