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Who do you give your career Cy Young award to ? Tom Seaver or Greg Maddux.

4for44for4 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭

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Who do you give your career Cy Young award to ? Tom Seaver or Greg Maddux.

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    craig44craig44 Posts: 10,539 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They share it

    this is a very good question. honestly, too close to call for me. Mad Dog played longer, but also had more bad old man years. I also lived through Maddux's dominant 94-95 stretch. about as good as it gets. Tom was super good for the decade of the 70s.

    Tied

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

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    thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Write in vote for Clemens.

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    craig44craig44 Posts: 10,539 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They share it

    ^^^^^^ this.

    Rocket for me

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

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    ApplejacksApplejacks Posts: 384 ✭✭✭
    Maddux

    Has to be Maddux by a hair.

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    TabeTabe Posts: 5,927 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would go with a tie, I think. Maddux had a higher peak with his ridiculous 1994 & 1995 seasons but also had far more terrible seasons. Seaver had exactly one season with an ERA+ under 99. Maddux had 5 plus his rookie year.

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    Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 2,273 ✭✭✭✭
    Maddux

    @Tabe said:
    I would go with a tie, I think. Maddux had a higher peak with his ridiculous 1994 & 1995 seasons but also had far more terrible seasons. Seaver had exactly one season with an ERA+ under 99. Maddux had 5 plus his rookie year.

    Maddux was 42 during his final year which was one of them and threw 30 innings his "rookie year" which was another. He also pitched in a more offensive era with more than triple the post season innings. Seaver also got two years before the mound was lowered

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    TabeTabe Posts: 5,927 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Basebal21 said:

    @Tabe said:
    I would go with a tie, I think. Maddux had a higher peak with his ridiculous 1994 & 1995 seasons but also had far more terrible seasons. Seaver had exactly one season with an ERA+ under 99. Maddux had 5 plus his rookie year.

    Maddux was 42 during his final year which was one of them and threw 30 innings his "rookie year" which was another. He also pitched in a more offensive era with more than triple the post season innings. Seaver also got two years before the mound was lowered

    Seaver was 41 in his final year. It's a wash. And I don't really care how old somebody is. If they suck, they suck.

    I specifically used ERA+ since it's relative to peers. Any way you look at it, Maddux was mostly awful his last few years. I didn't count his rookie year among his bad years but did accidentally double count 2008.

    Maddux threw roughly 65 more postseason innings than Seaver in the rounds that existed when Seaver played. It helps to have Tom Glavine and John Smoltz as your teammates instead of Ray Sadecki, Gary Gentry, Jerry Koosman, and the early version of Nolan Ryan.

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    Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 2,273 ✭✭✭✭
    Maddux

    @Tabe said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @Tabe said:
    I would go with a tie, I think. Maddux had a higher peak with his ridiculous 1994 & 1995 seasons but also had far more terrible seasons. Seaver had exactly one season with an ERA+ under 99. Maddux had 5 plus his rookie year.

    Maddux was 42 during his final year which was one of them and threw 30 innings his "rookie year" which was another. He also pitched in a more offensive era with more than triple the post season innings. Seaver also got two years before the mound was lowered

    Seaver was 41 in his final year. It's a wash. And I don't really care how old somebody is. If they suck, they suck.

    I specifically used ERA+ since it's relative to peers. Any way you look at it, Maddux was mostly awful his last few years. I didn't count his rookie year among his bad years but did accidentally double count 2008.

    Maddux threw roughly 65 more postseason innings than Seaver in the rounds that existed when Seaver played. It helps to have Tom Glavine and John Smoltz as your teammates instead of Ray Sadecki, Gary Gentry, Jerry Koosman, and the early version of Nolan Ryan.

    Maddux threw a 198 post season innings, Sever threw 61.2.

    Over 500 of Severs innings were on the higher mound as well.

    Tom Glavine and Smoltz being other starters dont help you out as a starter other than to make the playoffs. I'm only referencing playoff innings because of the extra stress on the body with the extended season which is a known factor to cause fatigue in pitchers the following year and Maddux did that basically every year.

    From the age of 22 to 40 Maddux never threw less then 200 innings. The closest he ever came was 2002 with 199.1 innings and 6 post season innings. Seaver had multiple seasons that didnt come close.

    Maddux lead the league in ERA 4 times, Sever 3, Maddux lead the league in innings 5 years in a row Sever none. Maddux lead the league in ERA+ 5 times and had more than one over 200 which Sever never had, Sever lead it 3 years. Maddux lead more years for WHIP as well. Other than strikeouts and CGs Maddux was better in basically every way and his best seasons were better

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    TabeTabe Posts: 5,927 ✭✭✭✭✭

    None of what you said changes what I said - Maddux higher peak but also lower valley.

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    Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 2,273 ✭✭✭✭
    Maddux

    And Maddux had the better career

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    Seaver

    Statistically it is basically a wash, however, looking at their tools and such, I am going with Seaver because Seaver is more 'umpire proof' than Maddux. During Maddux's time they were consistently giving him the three inches off the plate. In almost any other era, he does not get that and he becomes a different pitcher.

    I would be far more confident with Seaver's arsenal(of which was backed up by success) to go into any stadium, era, arena, and with any umpire presiding, than I would of Maddux.

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    craig44craig44 Posts: 10,539 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They share it

    I noticed an earlier comment about Seaver having 2 years of the raised mound. His 69 season is nearly a carbon copy of his 68 season. Not sure how much of an advantage he had in 67/68.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

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    JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,223 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Seaver

    @1948_Swell_Robinson said:
    Statistically it is basically a wash, however, looking at their tools and such, I am going with Seaver because Seaver is more 'umpire proof' than Maddux. During Maddux's time they were consistently giving him the three inches off the plate. In almost any other era, he does not get that and he becomes a different pitcher.

    I would be far more confident with Seaver's arsenal(of which was backed up by success) to go into any stadium, era, arena, and with any umpire presiding, than I would of Maddux.

    As long as the catcher caught it, (I wonder if Greg ever threw a "wild pitch" that was called a strike, wouldn't surprise me) it was called a strike.

    You're also being generous with what the umpires gave him, 3 inches low AND 3 inches off the plate........STRIKE!

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
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    miwlvrnmiwlvrn Posts: 4,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They share it

    I voted that they share it. In my head, I feel like I can make a case for either one of them.

    Makes me wonder a little bit how their stats would compare if they had both played on the same team(s) during the same years. Not together, but if one were to have replacement-existed in the other guy's spot. Were the Braves teams with Maddux a stronger support staff for more years than what Seaver had behind him?

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