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An idea of how to broaden and or increase interest and participation of collectors in Paper Currency

I first apologize for not writing this response yesterday as I said I would, but I had Horse Issues, they take all attention on my little ranch, they are y kids.
Now to get down to it I will paraphrase what I was saying. I feel as a newby it seems Paper Currency, (P/C) from here, has much less respect and far less participation from the "Collecting Consumer", as compared to coins and bullion. AS an answer to this issue I said it is pretty simple to fix.
I personally believe P/C should be as popular or equal too the level of interest and similar to the monetary investment as other collectibles.
The "Simple answer", I spoke of yesterday is this:
PCGS should develop a partnership with a very large bank, say Bank of America which also owns Merrill, obviously sophisticated investments and monetary legalities, and develop something like a monthly event that leads to an annual "Grand Prize",
The "Contest" is say getting the combination to a special safe, like a double or quintuple design so prizes could grow and become harder to figure out, that could then encourage folks to get books and or magazines to find a clue to a specific note that has to be found. So the first contest would be like find a note with (2) Two places tat money for general circulation and name them and then, identify the denomination and series year. Visible pictures and time stamps and such of course.
There is the first of it and I will fish for now with the 1st prize should be large and have everyone that enters win, just make it easy, more people is the goal and this is simply advertisement.
Later,
manofwar1

Comments

  • Serial_no_8Serial_no_8 Posts: 422 ✭✭✭

    The "Contest" is say getting the combination to a special safe, like a double or quintuple design so prizes could grow and become harder to figure out, that could then encourage folks to get books and or magazines to find a clue to a specific note that has to be found. So the first contest would be like find a note with (2) Two places tat money for general circulation and name them and then, identify the denomination and series year. Visible pictures and time stamps and such of course.

    I am having trouble following your contest details/structure. I'm also skeptical whether a contest would change things TBH. When I started keeping banknotes back in the mid-1970's I kept it a secret b/c I though it was strange. My brother had a tatty "Devil's Face" (a $5.00 I wished I had) as part of his coin collection but I knew nobody else who collected just banknotes (exclusively). I bought my first note at a Sears coin shop around 40 years ago (1980's). It was about 23 years ago (around the new Millennium) that I got my first catalogue.

    I think it is the expense that holds most folks back from this hobby. I can't say I blame people from being "gun shy" either: when I started setting aside banknotes (from circulation), I figured it would build discipline. The challenge of not spending a 1954 $20 would build character & it was TOUGH & some $5, $10 & $20 just went back to the wild B) LOL. I quit collecting (couldn't afford it), started up again (had a fatter bank account), quit (home expenses) & started up again several times. I think most collectors partake (withdraw), etc or "just dabble" now & again (as I did & most do). I'm sue the same goes for coins too.

    Perhaps the Reddit & Social Media crowd (collecting whatever polymer/current series) will help create a better, more robust hobby. Hard to say though as these things often go in cycles (good & bad).

  • Serial_no_8,
    Yes, I agree to a certain extent I doubt this issue of P/C lacking the same financial or collectors attention, but I do say I think coin collecting grew up from a child's hobby and that base is why P/C is lacking.
    I watched just part of the Long Beach Auctions and was surprised at some of the high prices I saw.
    You are also right about the cyclical nature of most things and i have only a year or so in to this side of the coin, so to speak.
    later,
    manofwar1

  • Serial_no_8Serial_no_8 Posts: 422 ✭✭✭

    When I went to my first coin shows 20 years ago, there might have been 2 or 3 women there. At that time maybe 25% of the bourse had paper in addition to coins.

    I went to a very small coin show just before the pandemic shut things down (2019). I lost count of the # of women! To me, that's a huge improvement. Also, just about every dealer had a small section of currency. The ones who didn't may have been more fringe hobbies like comic book/postcard & dealers who sold strictly mint products, like non circulating collector coins. I considered this a huge improvement & considerable growth compared to just 20 years ago.

    The #1&2 reasons you don't see the same amount of participation in paper is 1) expense & 2) newbie collectors getting burned on early purchases. The 2nd phenomenon occurs more often than we care to admit. It happens b/c of greed: unsavoury sellers pawning off faux errors, not-so-special stamped notes (hailed as special) or over-graded (processed) items. These are just some of the gimmicks out there.

    So if you see something fishy going on (a transaction to bilk somebody of their limited $), call it out.
    Unsavoury sellers really hurt the hobby. (Thanks!)

  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,476 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Paper Money collecting evolved as a subset of coin collecting and has always been a smaller part of the overall numismatic market. It has represented a varying percentage of that overall market over the years.

    Coin collecting in the U.S. dates back as far as the 18th century and started to become popular in the U.S. during the 1850s. Currency collecting started after the end of the Civil War with "worthless" Confederate and fractionals saved as souvenirs. Early large type and nationals were still in circulation, so didn't attract as much interest. The cost of collecting these higher denominations may have been a deterrent, too.

    Looking at auction catalogs published over the past 175 years or so can give one a feel for how much material of each type was offered and what relative pricing was. But in terms of lots and value offered, currency collecting has been perhaps 5-20% of the coin market? That's just a guess.

    The market didn't support specialized currency auction companies until the past few decades and the biggest players have always been coin auctioneers who sell more coins than paper, and still are today.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • Steve_in_TampaSteve_in_Tampa Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭✭

    These two pages of notes for sale from the 1950s might give you an idea how insignificant paper money was not too long ago. Reminds me of that song by Cher - If I Could Turn Back Time

  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,476 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I love that list.

    And this was at a time when coin collecting was popular and becoming even more popular, yet currency was just a small fraction of the whole numismatic market.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • Good Morning from the west coast, well actually 150 miles east in the high desert, about forty miles from Palm Springs.
    So thinking more and ore about the concept of a contest format, one should keep in mind, the entire purpose is to attract collectors and non-collectors alike to the hobby of collecting P/C, because the participating at any given level adds to demand and eventually as folks begin the endeavor also learn more and more, which inevitably should broaden the market enhanced by collectors different likes and dis-likes and obviously by the numbers, more demand.
    By way of collaborating with a bank like Bank of America/ Merrill, PCGS and including say the Numismatic News as a purveyor of the clues it should suffice for angles to begin. Each and everyone of these entities have advertising budgets and a very strong desire to broaden their repective client/markey base with new folks.
    Formatting with safes adds another potential player.
    Anyway, just thinking about this more and putting he idea out there into the world of thoughts.
    Later,
    manofwar1

  • Serial_no_8Serial_no_8 Posts: 422 ✭✭✭

    Paper Money collecting evolved as a subset of coin collecting and has always been a smaller part of the overall numismatic market. It has represented a varying percentage of that overall market over the years.

    +1
    -When I first started going to the odd coin show 20+ years ago, I remember meeting a group of 3-5 guys who exclusively collected paper money: or at least that's what they claimed (I sometimes saw 1 or 2 of them gazing at the coin tables :) ). We used to hang out b/c it was easy to get to know each other & the main paper dealers all knew us by name. So, yeah, we were a very small group of collectors. One dealer told me that the # of US collectors of CDN paper dwarf the # CDN's who collected CDN paper (& being surprised at that).

    These two pages of notes for sale from the 1950s might give you an idea how insignificant paper money was not too long ago.

    -That's a great vintage price list Steve. I remember seeing the odd old pamphlet that had really vague listings with two 'ballpark' grades like that "Circ" & "Mint" (terms that shouldn't even be applied to paper) but I didn't buy them. Wish I had now.

    If you still don't believe how relatively new/fringe paper money is, just check out Reddit comments about banknotes. Many posts about recently issued regular serial numbers that are "special." There are all sorts of newly "minted experts" who claim that a poorly centred note is an "error," or consecutive notes are "Mint" & "UNC" yet it's evident they've been tucking a few banknotes away for that past 2 years (or less).

  • jeffas1974jeffas1974 Posts: 310 ✭✭✭

    @Steve_in_Tampa said:
    These two pages of notes for sale from the 1950s might give you an idea how insignificant paper money was not too long ago. Reminds me of that song by Cher - If I Could Turn Back Time

    I'll gladly exchange 16 1952 Franklin half dollars for a Choice Uncirculated Chief note if someone wants to still transact at these prices :)

  • These pages are great, this type of ephemera while difficult to quantify or compare they certainly give some nice clues in the time and space this all occurred.
    These may have been some of what can picture of the P/C industry foundation in its nascent years.
    It seems to my limited knowledge on the industry, but having some fair amount in other positions, one of the things I have always seen is a well run business began with specific and a narrow focus on one or perhaps two products or services, When you as a business person needs to perfect something before expansion.
    I submit it should be possible to pick say two or three, maybe 4 or 5, I can not speak to the completely accepted books on their respective areas of knowledge and combine them into a single book which focus on a few items in the field and again the purpose is to focus attention of the consumer. The act of doing this does not prevent the authors of each subject from working on building the base of knowledge.
    Later
    manofwar1
    PS I am Just bloveating out of board-om

  • manofwar1manofwar1 Posts: 41
    edited September 27, 2023 9:33AM

    I do not think any form of contest or game, I am quite certain something already developed to facilitate numerous methodologies to attract fairly reliable numbers of people, which would need to limited anyway.
    Something I have learned in y advanced years, create something many people want and something only enough win to keep the wanting more. Determining the Target market is fairly simple to figure out too.
    later ,
    Thanks,
    manofwar1

  • Steve_in_TampaSteve_in_Tampa Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like you had your caps lock on for your recent post @manofwar1. For future reference, posts with all capitalization looks like you’re shouting.

  • manofwar1manofwar1 Posts: 41
    edited September 27, 2023 9:13AM

    To let you know something I do not want, I really am a novice at typing and certainly computer protocols. I sincerely was not shouting at people I do not even know, i am learning far more from you folks than I will ever be able to match, My apologies to all.
    Truly,
    manofwar1

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 8,014 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Another way to broaden interest in paper money,give some away. :)

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • Serial_no_8Serial_no_8 Posts: 422 ✭✭✭

    @BLUEJAYWAY said:
    Another way to broaden interest in paper money,give some away. :)

    I give it away to my nieces & nephews all the time! One of them seems interested so I give him the odd collectible too.

    I know this may come off weird but up here in Canada (& online) I keep seeing a push (& posts) for a cashless society. Cash use has always only accounted for a meagre fraction of commerce yet this has shrunk dramatically due to the Better Than Cash Alliance's successful attack on its use. I've seen their ad campaigns morph from "cash use fosters money laundering," to "cash helps spread diseases."

    To me this is absurd (cash & digital payments can co-exist peacefully) AND there is no need for a war on cash. Retailers have constantly closed down check-outs for automated (mostly credit) check outs after a successful BTCA advertisement campaign during the pandemic ("Stop Covid" swipe or use CC posters) globally. Just be aware of the constant (baseless) smear campaign against cash & try to encourage others to do the same. Don't buy into the "empowerment of digital" & other BS propaganda deployed by the BTCA.

  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,476 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So do we think that moves towards a cashless society would increase or decrease interest in currency collecting?

    Is the decrease in use of stamps in favor of meters and permits for mailing partly responsible for the crash of interest in stamp collecting? Is this a valid comparison?

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • I will have to side with the idea, there is room and very likely desire to maintain all of the idiosyncratic methodologies.
    i believe the BEP and now the Mint being brought together, along with other innovations in recent times is just my opinion another tie could not e better than now to bring these forces together to a common goal.
    Consider getting the Mint in collaboration with the BEP developed a special dye to be used on the stars which designates a say a topic or some sort of reference to some aspect of a note to learn from and again get kids to be able to teach the kid and the source of future.
    Later,
    manofwar1

  • Serial_no_8Serial_no_8 Posts: 422 ✭✭✭

    @sellitstore said:
    So do we think that moves towards a cashless society would increase or decrease interest in currency collecting?

    Is the decrease in use of stamps in favor of meters and permits for mailing partly responsible for the crash of interest in stamp collecting? Is this a valid comparison?

    I feel it decreases interest: if you don't see it, you forget about it, right? I see a parallel between stamps & currency but just that (stamps faded fast after email came around). Obviously, the stamp hobby is very different but I do see an alarming trend there (how you phase something out & interest quickly fades). It happened with other hobbies too. In general, I see mostly older collectors (those who value cash) & very few younger collectors lately. (Most young collectors just want 1 note from every country or IG photos, it seems).

  • I will write to someone and see if I can get the folks that make these sorts of decisions. You never know, they may put the pieces together and do something
    later,
    manofwar1

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