Coin shop owners had bank accounts shut down with no reason given.
ms70
Posts: 13,953 ✭✭✭✭✭
Three separate coin shop owners have found their bank accounts suddenly shut down without any prior notice or explanation from their financial institutions.
Bank Shuts Down ‘Silver Stackers and Gold Stackers’ Shop’s Business and Personal Accounts
Coinhusker’s Bank Account Suddenly Shut Down
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/09/what-is-going-three-separate-coin-shop-owners/
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Debanking of those deemed “non-compliant, unsavory, undesirable, or politically unacceptable” continues. This has become a global phenomenon. The usual reason given, if any at all, will be that these businesses are commonly associated with crime, more specifically, money laundering. We know that is likely not the case, but it’s been happening to “adult” businesses, firearms retailers and manufacturers, and pawn shops for YEARS….
I am NOT trying to be political whatsoever, but for historical reference, these policies pretty much started under the Obama administration. There was a name for the program that escapes me. “Chokepoint” or something? Banks were Fed pressured to cut off the “undesirables.”. The Fed program was ended but many banks continued the process.
I hope these folks find alternative banking. Others affected usually do, but not without a ton of heartache and lost business. I wouldn’t be surprised if more coin shops get hit with this, ESPECIALLY those that cater to bullion.
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
I read the article you linked, but did not view the videos. I find it odd that one shop owner mentioned twice that he had theories or knew what was going on, but didn't mention it in the article while another affected person stated they thought Covid was being re-introduced to kill the older generations so that we could get to a cashless society more quickly.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Had a surgeon friend who's account was "shut down" and he couldn't access it - his personal info had been sold by a bank insider (ID theft) - took quite a while to fix!
I am guessing there is more to this than in this one article.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
There probably are a lot of cash transactions that give the bank the idea that the coin shops are engaging in structuring of deposits to avoid being reported to the Treasury Department. That’s probably part of the reference to the anti-money laundering regulations. I have no knowledge of the factual circumstances of each case- I’m speculating here.
https://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/irm_04-026-013#idm140139512146208
A lot of coin shops deal in PM’s. Banks don’t like PM’s, no cut for them.
So a handful of coin shops need to find a new bank. Why? Most likely they routinely deposit / withdraw large amounts of cash. Many banks / credit unions don't like to deal with this. Some are not business friendly. Some are. Really nothing to do with political views, covid, cashless societies, or other conspiracy gibberish.
"The vaccines work,” Trump said, adding that the people who “get very sick and go to the hospital” are unvaccinated.
“Look, the results of the vaccine are very good, and if you do get it, it’s a very minor form,” Trump continued. “People aren’t dying when they take the vaccine.”
Do your part, America 💉😷
Coin dealers aren't the only industry that deals with this, banks get skittish with other industries also. I have a couple associates who have been booted from a bank before.
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
Operation Chokepoint ended several years ago. This could be a similar type of investigation related to cash transactions, withdrawals, deposits etc. Large amounts of cash are a big red flag these days. As other posters, I'm speculating.
Why should a large volume of cash be a concern for anyone? Break the law that is different story. But having large
Sums of cash doesn’t mean you’ve broke a law
Martin
Agree. Some heavy on cash receipts merchants get questioned, or worse.
Funny, sad, but true story of a friend's uncle. Has a small farm/orchard. Family sells roadside. Two summers ago (?) get's his bank account suspended. Consistently having one of the daughters depositing a bank bag with a few thousand a week for 12 to 18 weeks in a row, and then nothing in cash for long periods. Almost all small bills to $20's ... as you would suspect if you understood what they were doing.
Seems the bank didn't want to deal with the auditors and regulators, who had been asking more than a few questions.
His nephew tells me one of the tellers told him the auditors thought the family was growing something alright.
We suggested he go to a local bank (they were with a national).
SMH
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
I wonder if they were using a personal account rather than a business account. When retail stores deposit cash daily, banks don't raise a red flag.
Structuring is a federal crime.
Very interesting topic. It’s similar to discussions I routinely have with friends, business associates, my accountant, my attorney,……….
I am confused. Say someone who collects coins as a hobby and acts as a part-time dealer has a couple hundred thousand in a bank and over a year they withdrew anywhere from $1,000 to $10,000 at a time and throughout the year they deposited anywhere from $1,000 to $10,000 at a time. Year-end they have less (example $180,000) than the original $200,000.
Why would this situation, or maybe it wouldn’t, be cause for an account to be suspended? I guess what I am thinking is, it’s your money as long as you don’t end up with more than you started with then who should care?
In this example where did the $20,000 go? Possibly a combination of living expenses, inventory, losses, …..
Note, of course any and all taxes are paid in accordance to the law.
🤔
If it's a personal account, the behavior will look more suspicious than a corporate account.
Structuring deposits to avoid the $10k reporting threshold is a crime.
The initial or final balance doesn't help you. Laundering money could easily leave you with a lower balance.
Stores make daily deposits of cash and often frequent withdrawals. They don't raise flags.
Big Banks cut off some ATM operators during Chokepoint until legislation was corrected. They all used business accounts. The banks are pressured to have accountability regarding large cash depositors. They would be liable for enabling illicit behavior.
Canada shut down the bank accounts of the bridge protesters last year.
Source?
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
I thought it was well known. It was all over the news. Here's what pops up first on an internet search.
Dave (Coinhuskers) and I bank(ed) at the same bank. He is a very competitive bullion dealer. Not sure what his volumes are, or why he ran into that problem, but he is one tough cookie to beat on pricing.
If it happens to me, I'd probably get a Sharpie and a cardboard sign and beg on the street. Maybe in front of one of their branches.
Bad enough Dave got robbed of over $100,000 in gold and silver after a local show months before this.
Looks like "hit jobs" from the top and bottom.
HE>I
There was a guy on teletype back in the 80s who was front running the market with HIGH buys.
I sent him some silver. Twice.
1st time fine....then.... the teletype began to heat up with various querys of "WHERE'S MY MONEY?"
All was fine when the mkt was rising and he could lay off junk at profit.
Then....well ...oopsie. Silver did its thing again.
While everyone else was dithering on the teletype and calling HIM, ...I...called his bank.
They confirmed a hold on funds and closed his acct after telling me there was a line of checks coming in.
Whew! Too close for comfort. 20 grand or so as I recall.
Oh yeah, they told me I was the last payee they would hold funds for. They had a STACK of baddies.
He’s lucky his account wasn’t frozen.
If initial reports are true and they usually aren't, their lawyers need to contact these guys.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
It wouldn't surprise me to see more of this in the future when the tracking of debit card purchases go into affect. The goal is a cashless society so all monetary transactions can be monitored.
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
Apparently this is the paranoid forum
It may seem paranoid, but it was proposed at one time.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/biden-admin-backs-tracking-bank-accounts-600-annual/story?id=80665505
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
Not really. Simply a matter of a bank following directions of a gov agency that does not agree with the lawful business model of whomever they choose. Been happening to gun dealers for a while. The coming switch to central bank digital currencies will make flipping the switch on an “undesirable’s” money a one step task and at the same time remove any option of simply using cash.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
Since crime and bribery runs on cash, I don't see it completely disappearing.
I agree, although there are some businesses going cashless. Hard to get money out of a cash register with only debit card receipts.
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
I don't think cash will be eliminated completely with CBDCs, at least not at first. Most likely they will limit cash transactions to $20, then tighten the screws from there.
If they are going limit to $20, they better get inflation under control. You can hardly buy a fast food meal for $20.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
You have a point.
I hear what you are saying....but in the end that should not really matter. Law enforcement (government) is using (by Law) banks to gather information (transactions) to gather information on citizens with out probable cause.
I feel they should be required to be investigating a crime before they can obtain the information.
Anyway before I get my self into trouble here I'm out of this conversation
Martin out.
The article reads like it was written intentionally to mislead people and pander to a populist fear about big banks wanting to control us with a cashless economy. The facts are very light, so a small regional credit union suspended their business and personal accounts. That isn't very suspicious. What is suspicious is to drum up a conspiracy about cashless dictatorships.
I find the whole line of reasoning suspect. It is more likely that the accounts ran afoul of the credit unions rules. Maybe and just a theory here the accounts were shut down for correct reasons and the people are being a bit dishonest? Certainly, reads like a populist call to arms.
Just my read of the article.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
Most likely is that the bank asked for additional information under the KYC program (Know Your Customer) and failure to provide it will cause the accounts to be shut down. FinCen doesn't screw around.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
One Bank in are area is starting to charge a fee for "Any" large cash deposits. bad enough that they question people who have been dealing with them for years, the tellers act like they don't want to handle real cash money anymore.
While honest businesses who are doing their due diligence on lawful transactions and should not have their accounts shut down possibly the banks just do not have the capability to do their jobs. I've used Bank of America for years which seems to be reasonable in their rules.
I'm expecting a lot more tax investigations to move forward with new tools at the disposal of the IRS to circumvent various schemes and frauds used to circumvent taxes. Paying their just share is a small price to pay for businesses, many of whom make outsized profits compared to other brick and mortar businesses that have fewer opportunities for profits with smaller profit margins.
There was this NY Times article over the weekend where investment funds who have gamed the system will be getting notices soon: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/08/us/politics/irs-deploys-artificial-intelligence-to-target-rich-partnerships.html?searchResultPosition=2
"The agency said it would open examinations into 75 of the nation’s largest partnerships, which were identified with the help of artificial intelligence, by the end of the month. The partnerships all have more than $10 billion in assets and will receive audit notices in the coming weeks.
"More audits are likely to come. In October, the I.R.S. will send 500 notifications, known as compliance alerts, to other large partnerships indicating that the agency has found discrepancies in their balance sheets. These partnerships could also face audits if they cannot explain the differences in their balances from the end of one year to the start of the next.
"The focus on partnerships is part of a broader push by the I.R.S. to scrutinize wealthier taxpayers in 2024. Mr. Werfel said that the agency is dedicating dozens of revenue officers to pursue 1,600 millionaires who the I.R.S. believes owe at least $250,000 in unpaid taxes.
"In the coming year, the I.R.S. said it plans to increase scrutiny of digital assets as a vehicle for tax evasion and investigate how high-income taxpayers are using foreign bank accounts to avoid disclosing their financial information.
"The use of artificial intelligence at the I.R.S. opened it up to fresh criticism from those who complain that it cannot be trusted with taxpayer data."
There are no statutes of limitations on criminal tax fraud. I hope they go back as many years as necessary to uncover the full extent of the deception and fraud.
If my bank did that to me, I'd find a bank that did not charge for large cash deposits, then close that account. It is however something I would like to have happen (me have large cash deposits)
And I said I was out.......... goes to show
Martin
Gateway Pundit is a garbage fear and rage porn website. It’s the right wing’s version of MSNBC or Mother Jones and everything they put out is to be taken with the same giant grain of salt you would take if you were listening to Rachel Maddow go on a screed about how the world is going to bed because of MAGA.
So the article is basically just bait for people who already think a global cabal is working towards a cashless system as a means of control. I wonder how much overlap their is with anti-semetic cabal theories like rothschild.
There was a recent case where India tried to outlaw their most common banknote. The Equivalent of the U.S. banning the $20 bill. The move caused immediate problems and had to be reversed very quickly. The reality of a cashless system seems pretty far off still.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
We really don’t know why the bank closed these accounts. Could be related to cash or could be related to something else.
Regardless, it’s important to have a relationship with your banks. Know your bankers. Help them understand your business and your business’ goals. Find banks and bankers that will work with you and help you get the products and services that you need. Like any other business owner, have a relationship with more than one bank - if you have a problem with one (can’t get credit, new fee for particular service, etc) then you have an alternative already in place.
The world's full of busybodies
True, but in such situations they often don't ask for additional information. If they spot what they consider to be red flags (and the compliance people DO NOT share this with branch level personnel), they err on the side of caution and just close the account. This is undoubtedly exactly what happened to the people in the videos.
The conspiracy folks do tend to go wild with their theories, but it really does come down to law enforcement wanting paper trails for everything, and cash not lending itself to that. So, the folks screaming about not being allowed to maintain their privacy are not totally off base, and folks whose businesses routinely deal with large amounts of cash that cannot be traced are absolutely at increasing risk of not being accommodated by the banking system.
By design, this is meant to limit the attractiveness of the underground economy, by limiting, or entirely eliminating, entree into the banking system.
Yep. And that's also why we've never re-issued the $500 or $1000 bills, which were discontinued in 1969. Even though the purchasing power of today's $1000 is about $130 in 1969 dollars.
https://www.investopedia.com/6-famous-discontinued-and-uncommon-u-s-currency-denominations-4773302
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
False, those larger bills existed specifically to facilite large bank transactions. The $1,000 for instance was never issued to the public and I don't think you can own them. So they never re-issued those bills because they don't need them when computers can do large wire transactions.
Disinformation is a plague.
The substantial truth doctrine is an important defense in defamation law that allows individuals to avoid liability if the gist of their statement was true.
Your post is filled with "disinformation". The $1000 was issued for circulation and is still available today. Many are on ebay right now. Maybe you meant $10,000? But, that too was issued for circulation (although most people would never see one) and is legal to own also. Maybe you meant the $100,000 gold certificate issued in 1934? That was never issued for circulation, was meant for bank transactions only, and is illegal to own.
Disinformation is a plague.
@Manifest_Destiny I didn't realize the $100,000 bills were illegal to own, but that's what the Smithsonian site says about the one in its collection
https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_742353
and BEP too: https://www.bep.gov/currency/history/historical-currency/100000-gold-certificate
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
You are in complete error.
Well, not COMPLETE. Large bills were for banks, just larger than the $1000 bill he mentioned.
The EU had a 500 Euro note. I'm not sure why their computers can't handle large wire transfers.